Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Why do they recommend...

  1. #1
    gloria p Guest

    Default Why do they recommend...



    I just finished a double batch of bread and butter pickles and, while
    leafing through the Ball canning book, noted that mot recipes say:

    "Process in boiling water bath xx minutes, remove from heat, and
    after 5 minutes remove jars from kettle."


    Why the extra 5 minutes? In that short time, the temperature of the
    kettle water doesn't cool down enough to remove the threat of burns
    and the temperature of the jars means you still have to use some kind of
    tongs or lifter to remove them from the kettle. Those things are HOT!

    I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
    almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.

    gloria p

  2. #2
    Jim Macey Guest

    Default Re: Why do they recommend...

    On 8/5/2012 2:06 PM, gloria p wrote:>
    (snip)
    > I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
    > almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.


    This brings up a question: what bugs/bacteria are we chasing after that
    require 212deg. for 10 mins??? I was under the impression that most
    bacteria burst their cell walls at around 106deg. and the protoplasm
    leaks out, producing death of the cell. Anybody know??

    Jim...in New Mexico


  3. #3
    George Shirley Guest

    Default Re: Why do they recommend...

    On 8/5/2012 3:34 PM, Jim Macey wrote:
    > On 8/5/2012 2:06 PM, gloria p wrote:>
    > (snip)
    >> I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
    >> almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.

    >
    > This brings up a question: what bugs/bacteria are we chasing after that
    > require 212deg. for 10 mins??? I was under the impression that most
    > bacteria burst their cell walls at around 106deg. and the protoplasm
    > leaks out, producing death of the cell. Anybody know??
    >
    > Jim...in New Mexico
    >

    And the answers to all your questions are probably right here:
    http://nchfp.uga.edu/

    The tables at the site will tell you exactly how long to BWB at
    different altitudes, also found in practically every home food
    preserving book out there.

    Going to the source of information is always better than guessing or
    expecting someone else to provide you the information. There are many
    reasons for processing acidic foods in a boiling water bath for many
    minutes, not all are about bacterium but all are about food safety. You
    can also pasteurize your food at 180F for the required length of time.

    Once more, check out the UGA site for actual food science reasons for
    how we put up our food and for how long and at what temperatures.

  4. #4
    The Cook Guest

    Default Re: Why do they recommend...

    On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 14:06:21 -0600, gloria p <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >I just finished a double batch of bread and butter pickles and, while
    >leafing through the Ball canning book, noted that mot recipes say:
    >
    >"Process in boiling water bath xx minutes, remove from heat, and
    >after 5 minutes remove jars from kettle."
    >
    >
    >Why the extra 5 minutes? In that short time, the temperature of the
    >kettle water doesn't cool down enough to remove the threat of burns
    >and the temperature of the jars means you still have to use some kind of
    >tongs or lifter to remove them from the kettle. Those things are HOT!
    >
    >I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
    >almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.
    >
    >gloria p



    I'm not sure what the reason for it is but I know that when I turn off
    the burner and remove the lid (an alternate method) and let it sit for
    5 or so minutes, many of my jams and pickles have sealed and that I
    get a much better record of my tomatoes and beans sealing than when I
    just take them out at the prescribed time.

    I just took 7 quarts of tomatoes out of the boiling water bath and
    they all sealed by the time I had them all out of the water. Next
    batch just went into the water. That takes care of the tomatoes that
    we have picked except for a few that I picked this morning and a
    basket full of cherry tomatoes. The cherries will be made into juice
    tomorrow. I'm out of steam now.
    --
    Susan N.

    "Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
    48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
    Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

  5. #5
    songbird Guest

    Default Re: Why do they recommend...

    gloria p wrote:
    >
    > I just finished a double batch of bread and butter pickles and, while
    > leafing through the Ball canning book, noted that mot recipes say:
    >
    > "Process in boiling water bath xx minutes, remove from heat, and
    > after 5 minutes remove jars from kettle."
    >
    >
    > Why the extra 5 minutes? In that short time, the temperature of the
    > kettle water doesn't cool down enough to remove the threat of burns
    > and the temperature of the jars means you still have to use some kind of
    > tongs or lifter to remove them from the kettle. Those things are HOT!


    i would guess that it involves the boiling point
    and that perhaps there is some chance of a residual
    gurgle of hot water that is best to avoid. by waiting
    a few minutes it gives the chance to let that type
    of problem to dissipate.


    > I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
    > almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.



    songbird

  6. #6
    songbird Guest

    Default Re: Why do they recommend...

    Jim Macey wrote:
    > gloria p wrote:>
    > (snip)
    >> I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
    >> almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.

    >
    > This brings up a question: what bugs/bacteria are we chasing after that
    > require 212deg. for 10 mins??? I was under the impression that most
    > bacteria burst their cell walls at around 106deg. and the protoplasm
    > leaks out, producing death of the cell. Anybody know??
    >
    > Jim...in New Mexico


    botulism.

    many bacteria can survive well past 106F.


    songbird

  7. #7
    Melba's Jammin' Guest

    Default Re: Why do they recommend...

    In article <501fc674$0$7473$[email protected]> ,
    George Shirley <[email protected]> wrote:
    ( others' snipped)

    > Going to the source of information is always better than guessing or
    > expecting someone else to provide you the information. There are many
    > reasons for processing acidic foods in a boiling water bath for many
    > minutes, not all are about bacterium but all are about food safety. You
    > can also pasteurize your food at 180F for the required length of time.


    The ONLY mentions I've ever seen for pasteurization are for some
    pickles, George. Not all pickle recipes provide the pasteurization
    option it requires more temperature control than I'll bet most of us
    can manage. You're not suggesting pasteurization for other stuff, are
    you?
    >
    > Once more, check out the UGA site for actual food science reasons for
    > how we put up our food and for how long and at what temperatures.

    --
    Barb,
    http://www.barbschaller.com, as of June 6, 2012

  8. #8
    George Shirley Guest

    Default Re: Why do they recommend...

    On 8/10/2012 7:31 AM, Melba's Jammin' wrote:
    > In article <501fc674$0$7473$[email protected]> ,
    > George Shirley <[email protected]> wrote:
    > ( others' snipped)
    >
    >> Going to the source of information is always better than guessing or
    >> expecting someone else to provide you the information. There are many
    >> reasons for processing acidic foods in a boiling water bath for many
    >> minutes, not all are about bacterium but all are about food safety. You
    >> can also pasteurize your food at 180F for the required length of time.

    >
    > The ONLY mentions I've ever seen for pasteurization are for some
    > pickles, George. Not all pickle recipes provide the pasteurization
    > option it requires more temperature control than I'll bet most of us
    > can manage. You're not suggesting pasteurization for other stuff, are
    > you?
    >>
    >> Once more, check out the UGA site for actual food science reasons for
    >> how we put up our food and for how long and at what temperatures.

    You're right, I'm not suggesting pasteurization for other stuff. I do
    know some folks who pasteurize pickles and some jams, I don't do
    pasteurization myself. Primarily because you have to have the proper
    equipment to absolutely maintain the 180F for the required time, even a
    few degrees less will not be safe.

    That's why USDA pushes for boiling water bath and experimentation at
    various universities has established the proper timing. I wait until the
    boiling water bath is at a rolling boil before I hit the timer. Knowing
    my gas stove as well as I do I can then cut back the flame to maintain
    the rolling boil and keep it going for the required time. I also use the
    towel method, have done it for years now. I turn off the fire, take off
    the lid, toss a tea towel over the top of the kettle, hit the timer for
    five minutes. My understanding of that method is that allows the last
    air bubbles in the jar, if any, to come out before the seal starts to
    take effect. When I do that the jars start plinking as soon as they are
    removed from the kettle, often before they are set on a folded towel to
    cool for 24 hours. I'm happy with using the recommended methods as I
    seldom have a jar go bad anymore. YMMV

  9. #9
    songbird Guest

    Default Re: Why do they recommend...

    George Shirley wrote:
    ....
    > You're right, I'm not suggesting pasteurization for other stuff. I do
    > know some folks who pasteurize pickles and some jams, I don't do
    > pasteurization myself. Primarily because you have to have the proper
    > equipment to absolutely maintain the 180F for the required time, even a
    > few degrees less will not be safe.


    the pedant in me can't resist, pasturization is not
    sterilization (this is why milk will still go bad even
    after being pasturized)...


    songbird

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32