Re: Lest We Forget

Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
> "Debbie" <MollyMoll1st@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hde9k8$s68$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In Flanders fields the poppies blow
>> Between the crosses, row on row,
>> That mark our place; and in the sky
>> The larks, still bravely singing, fly
>> Scarce heard amid the guns below.
>>
>> We are the Dead. Short days ago
>> We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
>> Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
>> In Flanders Fields.
>>
>> Take up our quarrel with the foe:
>> To you from failing hands we throw
>> The torch; be yours to hold it high.
>> If ye break faith with us who die
>> We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
>> In Flanders Fields.
>>
>> - John McCrae
>>
> We went to the diner on Sunday after church and a lady from the VFW was
> taking a collection for the inpatients at the Veteran's Hospital. I quoted
> this poem and half the kids sitting around in their pajamas and cell phones,
> looked at me like I disturbed the peace. Maybe if more people KNEW that
> 11/11 at 11:11 a.m. is Armistice Day and that it has nothing to do with
> getting that sale on coats before the holiday rush we might be a better
> society.
> -ginny
>
>
My grown grandkids, all born in the eighties, don't even know about WWI,
WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I don't think American schools even teach
American History anymore. That being said, all the schools in our Parish
celebrated Veteran's Day yesterday and are closed today. This area has a
high percentage of veterans to the regular population and there are
multiple ceremonies going on today.

I went to the Veteran's Home in Jennings, LA yesterday and delivered a
load of goodies from the pantry, mostly jellies and jams. The home is
good about saving me the jars and rings too. The guys in the home are
mostly disabled and very elderly and we had a nice visit. Talked with
lots of WWII and Korean War vets and we swapped lies about our days in
the military. I try to visit often as I might well be in there someday
if my luck turns.

On Nov 11, 11:16*pm, George Shirley <gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
> > "Debbie" <MollyMoll...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:hde9k8$s68$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> *In Flanders fields the poppies blow
> >> *Between the crosses, row on row,
> >> *That mark our place; and in the sky
> >> *The larks, still bravely singing, fly
> >> *Scarce heard amid the guns below.
>
> >> *We are the Dead. Short days ago
> >> *We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
> >> *Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
> >> *In Flanders Fields.
>
> >> *Take up our quarrel with the foe:
> >> *To you from failing hands we throw
> >> *The torch; be yours to hold it high.
> >> *If ye break faith with us who die
> >> *We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
> >> *In Flanders Fields.
>
> >> *- John McCrae
>
> > We went to the diner on Sunday after church and a lady from the VFW was
> > taking a collection for the inpatients at the Veteran's Hospital. *I quoted
> > this poem and half the kids sitting around in their pajamas and cell phones,
> > looked at me like I disturbed the peace. *Maybe if more people KNEW that
> > 11/11 at 11:11 a.m. is Armistice Day and that it has nothing to do with
> > getting that sale on coats before the holiday rush we might be a better
> > society.
> > -ginny
>
> My grown grandkids, all born in the eighties, don't even know about WWI,
> WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I don't think American schools even teach
> American History anymore. That being said, all the schools in our Parish
> celebrated Veteran's Day yesterday and are closed today. This area has a
> high percentage of veterans to the regular population and there are
> multiple ceremonies going on today.

They do not get taught much in Australian schools either, and sadly I
must have failed in my grandmotherly duties to inform the grandies,
because this is the conversation I had with younger grandson yesterday
when I picked him up from school.

Me: Did you have a minute silence today for Remeberance Day?
He (with somewhat puzzled look): Yes, but I didn't remember anything!

We had a discussion of what Rememberance Day is for. His answer did
crack me up though :-)

JB
>
<snip>>
> - Show quoted text -

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:11:16 -0800 (PST), Golden One <jpburns@westnet.com.au>
wrote:

-->On Nov 11, 11:16*pm, George Shirley <gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
-->> Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
-->> > "Debbie" <MollyMoll...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
-->> >news:hde9k8$s68$1@news.eternal-september.org...
-->> >> *In Flanders fields the poppies blow
-->> >> *Between the crosses, row on row,
-->> >> *That mark our place; and in the sky
-->> >> *The larks, still bravely singing, fly
-->> >> *Scarce heard amid the guns below.
-->>
-->> >> *We are the Dead. Short days ago
-->> >> *We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
-->> >> *Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
-->> >> *In Flanders Fields.
-->>
-->> >> *Take up our quarrel with the foe:
-->> >> *To you from failing hands we throw
-->> >> *The torch; be yours to hold it high.
-->> >> *If ye break faith with us who die
-->> >> *We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
-->> >> *In Flanders Fields.
-->>
-->> >> *- John McCrae
-->>
-->> > We went to the diner on Sunday after church and a lady from the VFW was
-->> > taking a collection for the inpatients at the Veteran's Hospital. *I
quoted
-->> > this poem and half the kids sitting around in their pajamas and cell
phones,
-->> > looked at me like I disturbed the peace. *Maybe if more people KNEW that
-->> > 11/11 at 11:11 a.m. is Armistice Day and that it has nothing to do with
-->> > getting that sale on coats before the holiday rush we might be a better
-->> > society.
-->> > -ginny
-->>
-->> My grown grandkids, all born in the eighties, don't even know about WWI,
-->> WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I don't think American schools even teach
-->> American History anymore. That being said, all the schools in our Parish
-->> celebrated Veteran's Day yesterday and are closed today. This area has a
-->> high percentage of veterans to the regular population and there are
-->> multiple ceremonies going on today.
-->
-->They do not get taught much in Australian schools either, and sadly I
-->must have failed in my grandmotherly duties to inform the grandies,
-->because this is the conversation I had with younger grandson yesterday
-->when I picked him up from school.
-->
-->Me: Did you have a minute silence today for Remeberance Day?
-->He (with somewhat puzzled look): Yes, but I didn't remember anything!
-->
-->We had a discussion of what Rememberance Day is for. His answer did
-->crack me up though :-)
-->
-->JB
-->>
--><snip>>
-->> - Show quoted text -


..... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty somethings
don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
ourselves to blame for that.

In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
<recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:

> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty somethings
> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
> ourselves to blame for that.

Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.

I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
"In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".

Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
don't understand what fighting evil means.

"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC

I have not fought in a war and I am now 50. My great uncle fought in
WWII and I know he was proud of his service and the cause he fought for
on behalf of Canada and the rest of the free world.

My children understand well how much I respect the men and women who
serve and who have served, and how much we owe to them.

I'm proud of my my children, and I make a point of thanking the men and
women in uniform for their service whenever I get the chance.

It saddens me somewhat to see how surprised they are when I do so.

djb

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:

-->In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
--><recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
-->
-->> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty
somethings
-->> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
-->> ourselves to blame for that.
-->
-->Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.

Thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to point out my spelling
mistake.

-->
-->I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
-->"In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
-->
-->Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
-->indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
-->don't understand what fighting evil means.
-->
-->"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
-->the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
-->freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
-->gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
-->flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
-->flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
-->Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
-->
-->I have not fought in a war and I am now 50. My great uncle fought in
-->WWII and I know he was proud of his service and the cause he fought for
-->on behalf of Canada and the rest of the free world.
-->
-->My children understand well how much I respect the men and women who
-->serve and who have served, and how much we owe to them.
-->
-->I'm proud of my my children, and I make a point of thanking the men and
-->women in uniform for their service whenever I get the chance.
-->
-->It saddens me somewhat to see how surprised they are when I do so.
-->
-->djb

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:

> In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
> <recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
>
>> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty somethings
>> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
>> ourselves to blame for that.
>
> Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
>
> I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
> "In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
>
> Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
> indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
> don't understand what fighting evil means.
>
> "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
> the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
> freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
> gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
> flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
> flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
> Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
>

what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
(and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.

and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well. korea and
vietnam, even less so. iraq - don't make me laugh.

note that this is not to say we should not be grateful to our vets, but
preserving our rights is *not* what they were doing. we citizens have to
do that ourselves, and here in this country, not overseas.

(jeez, sounds pretty wingnutty, huh?)

your pal,
blake

Stu wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone
> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
>
> -->In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
> --><recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
> -->
> -->> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty
> somethings
> -->> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
> -->> ourselves to blame for that.
> -->
> -->Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
>
> Thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to point out my spelling
> mistake.
>
> -->
> -->I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
> -->"In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
> -->
> -->Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
> -->indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
> -->don't understand what fighting evil means.
> -->
> -->"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
> -->the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
> -->freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
> -->gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
> -->flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
> -->flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
> -->Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
> -->
> -->I have not fought in a war and I am now 50. My great uncle fought in
> -->WWII and I know he was proud of his service and the cause he fought for
> -->on behalf of Canada and the rest of the free world.
> -->
> -->My children understand well how much I respect the men and women who
> -->serve and who have served, and how much we owe to them.
> -->
> -->I'm proud of my my children, and I make a point of thanking the men and
> -->women in uniform for their service whenever I get the chance.
> -->
> -->It saddens me somewhat to see how surprised they are when I do so.
> -->
> -->djb
I have had relatives in all theaters of WWII, in Korea, Vietnam,and
current actions. When one of my uncles died -He was in Luzon, and Japan
during WWII, he had six bronze stars as well as other awards, this
poem was written by one of my cousins.

I Watched Two Old Soldiers Say Good Bye
By Dietrich Knobloch /printed in the Lyon County Reporter

It was a beautiful fall
The temperature was cool
The sun was bright
As I watched two old soldiers say goodbye.

One’s fight had ended a few days before,
On a nursing home floor,
Where he slipped away quietly
His memories lost to the crevices of time
As I watched two old soldiers say goodbye

They belonged to three families
One they were born into,
One they were baptized into,
And one they were sworn into
As I watched two old soldiers say goodbye.

They both served in the Pacific,
One in the South Pacific in WWII
And the other in Korea
They are proud of their Country,
Their service and their families,
As two old soldiers say goodbye.

The Legion was there
With the color guard and rifles,
The flag was given to the next of Kin,
And the taps played
As two old soldiers said goodbye

When the service was over
The flowers were pulled
from the casket spray
The family started to turn away,
When out of the crowd
An older fellow came to
The foot of the grave
He straightened his back,
As tears streamed down his face
With his weathered right hand
He gave a final salute.
As two old soldiers said goodbye.

I watched it and saw it with my two eyes
As two old soldiers said goodbye
One was by Dad and the other my uncle
And to them I am forever grateful.

Connie TenClay wrote:
> Stu wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone
>> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
>>
>> -->In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
>> --><recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
>> -->
>> -->> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty
>> somethings
>> -->> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and
>> we have
>> -->> ourselves to blame for that.
>> -->
>> -->Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
>>
>> Thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to point out my
>> spelling
>> mistake.
>>
>> -->
>> -->I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the
>> poem
>> -->"In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
>> -->
>> -->Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
>> -->indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
>> -->don't understand what fighting evil means.
>> -->
>> -->"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
>> -->the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
>> -->freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
>> -->gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
>> -->flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
>> -->flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
>> -->Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC -->
>> -->I have not fought in a war and I am now 50. My great uncle fought in
>> -->WWII and I know he was proud of his service and the cause he fought
>> for
>> -->on behalf of Canada and the rest of the free world.
>> -->
>> -->My children understand well how much I respect the men and women who
>> -->serve and who have served, and how much we owe to them.
>> -->
>> -->I'm proud of my my children, and I make a point of thanking the men
>> and
>> -->women in uniform for their service whenever I get the chance.
>> -->
>> -->It saddens me somewhat to see how surprised they are when I do so.
>> -->
>> -->djb
> I have had relatives in all theaters of WWII, in Korea, Vietnam,and
> current actions. When one of my uncles died -He was in Luzon, and Japan
> during WWII, he had six bronze stars as well as other awards, this poem
> was written by one of my cousins.
>
> I Watched Two Old Soldiers Say Good Bye
> By Dietrich Knobloch /printed in the Lyon County Reporter
>
> It was a beautiful fall
> The temperature was cool
> The sun was bright
> As I watched two old soldiers say goodbye.
>
> One’s fight had ended a few days before,
> On a nursing home floor,
> Where he slipped away quietly
> His memories lost to the crevices of time
> As I watched two old soldiers say goodbye
>
> They belonged to three families
> One they were born into,
> One they were baptized into,
> And one they were sworn into
> As I watched two old soldiers say goodbye.
>
> They both served in the Pacific,
> One in the South Pacific in WWII
> And the other in Korea
> They are proud of their Country,
> Their service and their families,
> As two old soldiers say goodbye.
>
> The Legion was there
> With the color guard and rifles,
> The flag was given to the next of Kin,
> And the taps played
> As two old soldiers said goodbye
>
> When the service was over
> The flowers were pulled
> from the casket spray
> The family started to turn away,
> When out of the crowd
> An older fellow came to
> The foot of the grave
> He straightened his back,
> As tears streamed down his face
> With his weathered right hand
> He gave a final salute.
> As two old soldiers said goodbye.
>
> I watched it and saw it with my two eyes
> As two old soldiers said goodbye
> One was by Dad and the other my uncle
> And to them I am forever grateful.
>

Thank you Connie, I think all of us are forever grateful.

In article <m805dsfc29u7$.s8p7ydkmnuef.dlg@40tude.net>,
blake murphy <blakepmNOTTHIS@verizon.net> wrote:


> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
>
> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well.

Militarily or economically? Hitler intended to unify Europe and make it
a major world power. Who knows what his ultimate goal was?

> korea and
> vietnam, even less so.

Of course, the stated goal was "stopping the Red Menace". It was just a
coincidence that we pulled out of Vietnam once synthetic rubber was
invented.

> iraq - don't make me laugh.

Saddam Hussein was a big enthusiast of Hitler and plans for world
domination. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, if Saddam Hussein
had in fact conquered the Middle East, that country might have become a
world power.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
dabel@sonic.net

Dan Abel wrote:

>
> Saddam Hussein was a big enthusiast of Hitler and plans for world
> domination. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, if Saddam Hussein
> had in fact conquered the Middle East, that country might have become a
> world power.
>

There is no doubt that Saddam was a ruthless son of a bitch. He was the
head of a country full of ruthless sons of bitches. Curiously, the US
provided satellite intelligence to help Iraq "calibrate" (target)
Iranian troops for chemical weapon attacks, but when he moved on Kuwait
he was the bad guy and his forces were pretty well destroyed in Desert
Storm. Stories about WMDs were proven to have been a fabrication to
justify an invasion. He was not a threat to the US. He wasn't much of a
threat to anyone.

I have a lot of respect for the men and women in the military who are
ready and willing to fight for their country in a just war. I feel sorry
for them when they get sent to fight unjust wars.

In article <4afc5f4c$0$1606$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>,
Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Dan Abel wrote:
>
> >
> > Saddam Hussein was a big enthusiast of Hitler and plans for world
> > domination. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, if Saddam Hussein
> > had in fact conquered the Middle East, that country might have become a
> > world power.
> >
>
> There is no doubt that Saddam was a ruthless son of a bitch. He was the
> head of a country full of ruthless sons of bitches. Curiously, the US
> provided satellite intelligence to help Iraq "calibrate" (target)
> Iranian troops for chemical weapon attacks, but when he moved on Kuwait
> he was the bad guy and his forces were pretty well destroyed in Desert
> Storm. Stories about WMDs were proven to have been a fabrication to
> justify an invasion. He was not a threat to the US. He wasn't much of a
> threat to anyone.

I can't argue with your facts, but there's a long timeline here:

1. Iran/Iraq. The US has always had an unwritten policy that if a
country is an enemy of our enemy, then they are our friend. When we
were unhappy with Iran, then Iraq, and Saddam Hussein, was our friend.
It's not clear whether we supplied Saddam with WOMD (those chemical
weapons), but we supplied intelligence. And of course, even though they
were military targets, a lot of civilians got killed.

2. In the time of George I, Saddam claims that he had "permission" to
invade Kuwait from the US (meaning only that we would not interfere). I
don't believe the US ever denied that. The claim was that the US
Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie, gave the "permission". Iraq did
invade Kuwait, and the UN approved help to Kuwait. A lot of US
resources were involved, and Iraq was not only driven out of Kuwait, but
much of the infrastructure in Iraq was destroyed. I don't believe there
was a big deal about WOMD, but it was ordered that there be UN
inspections to make sure that Iraq didn't acquire any.

3. In the time of George II, Iraq was invaded again, this time upon the
pretense that there were WOMD.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
dabel@sonic.net

blake murphy wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>
>> In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
>> <recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty somethings
>>> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
>>> ourselves to blame for that.
>> Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
>>
>> I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
>> "In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
>>
>> Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
>> indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
>> don't understand what fighting evil means.
>>
>> "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
>> the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
>> freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
>> gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
>> flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
>> flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
>> Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
>>
>
> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
>
> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well. korea and
> vietnam, even less so. iraq - don't make me laugh.
>
> note that this is not to say we should not be grateful to our vets, but
> preserving our rights is *not* what they were doing. we citizens have to
> do that ourselves, and here in this country, not overseas.
>
> (jeez, sounds pretty wingnutty, huh?)
>
> your pal,
> blake

You miss the whole point. None of these freedoms would be available to
you if it were not for the soldiers/sailors/airmen who preserve and
defend this country and its constitution from people who would take all
the liberties and property you have.

The fact that we have never had to defend the mainland USA from forces
that would occupy it only serves to prove that the threat of action by
our military (to defend the USA) has been effective.

Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc are totally irrelevant to Sgt. O'Brien's statement.

EJ in NJ

EJ Willson wrote:
> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>
>>> In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
>>> <recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty
>>>> somethings
>>>> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
>>>> ourselves to blame for that.
>>> Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
>>>
>>> I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
>>> "In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
>>>
>>> Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
>>> indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
>>> don't understand what fighting evil means.
>>>
>>> "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
>>> the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
>>> freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
>>> gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
>>> flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
>>> flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
>>> Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
>>
>> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
>> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
>> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
>>
>> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
>> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well. korea and
>> vietnam, even less so. iraq - don't make me laugh.
>>
>> note that this is not to say we should not be grateful to our vets, but
>> preserving our rights is *not* what they were doing. we citizens have to
>> do that ourselves, and here in this country, not overseas.
>>
>> (jeez, sounds pretty wingnutty, huh?)
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> You miss the whole point. None of these freedoms would be available to
> you if it were not for the soldiers/sailors/airmen who preserve and
> defend this country and its constitution from people who would take all
> the liberties and property you have.
>
> The fact that we have never had to defend the mainland USA from forces
> that would occupy it only serves to prove that the threat of action by
> our military (to defend the USA) has been effective.
>
> Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc are totally irrelevant to Sgt. O'Brien's
> statement.
>
> EJ in NJ

You know, I have to sigh because you have a somewhat valid point. But
you are also wrong.

Just because you are somewhat right in regards to "why" people serve,
does not validate you or your thought process

People serve for a number of reasons, and likely it is a combination of
reasons.

Point is? Unless *you* serve, you have no valid points to make as to the
motivations as to why someone serves..

Being a ponce, is just that.

That is you.

EJ Willson wrote:
> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>
>>> In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
>>> <recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty
>>>> somethings
>>>> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
>>>> ourselves to blame for that.
>>> Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
>>>
>>> I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
>>> "In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
>>>
>>> Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
>>> indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
>>> don't understand what fighting evil means.
>>>
>>> "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
>>> the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
>>> freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
>>> gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
>>> flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
>>> flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
>>> Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
>>
>> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
>> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
>> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
>>
>> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
>> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well. korea and
>> vietnam, even less so. iraq - don't make me laugh.
>>
>> note that this is not to say we should not be grateful to our vets, but
>> preserving our rights is *not* what they were doing. we citizens have to
>> do that ourselves, and here in this country, not overseas.
>>
>> (jeez, sounds pretty wingnutty, huh?)
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> You miss the whole point. None of these freedoms would be available to
> you if it were not for the soldiers/sailors/airmen who preserve and
> defend this country and its constitution from people who would take all
> the liberties and property you have.
>
> The fact that we have never had to defend the mainland USA from forces
> that would occupy it only serves to prove that the threat of action by
> our military (to defend the USA) has been effective.
>
> Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc are totally irrelevant to Sgt. O'Brien's
> statement.
>
> EJ in NJ

Sorry EJ. I was irritated, but read it from your reply. I was really
irritated at Murphy. I missed the start/stop of the posts.

Blake -

Feel free to call me a "wingnut". I will absorb that as something people
not willing to put their life on the line to preserve the freedoms of
all, are the same people that I protected when I served. I have zero
issue with your opinion, but I do consider it rather lame.

If someone else is willing to put their life on the line for you to have
a verbal opinion, what does that make them?

I would never have an issue with you having a "ponce" opinion about
anything.

I consider your stance that my protecting that right and meaning
nothing, a sore point.

Next you will say that the jews have nothing to complain about in regard
to WWII.

Defending the homeland? That is your point?

You are a ponce.

Just because we have not been invaded is not an excuse for not taking
responsibility for out actions. Nor is it a good excuse for not taking
action when we were isolationists.

We all have to be responsible for our actions, or our inactivity.

That includes you.

You lost my respect today.

I know that means nothing to you... but it is still a fact.

On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:14:24 -0500, Bob Muncie <bob.muncie@gmail.com> wrote:

-->EJ Willson wrote:
-->> blake murphy wrote:
-->>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:
-->>>
-->>>> In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
-->>>> <recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
-->>>>
-->>>>> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty
-->>>>> somethings
-->>>>> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
-->>>>> ourselves to blame for that.
-->>>> Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
-->>>>
-->>>> I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
-->>>> "In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
-->>>>
-->>>> Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
-->>>> indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
-->>>> don't understand what fighting evil means.
-->>>>
-->>>> "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
-->>>> the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
-->>>> freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
-->>>> gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
-->>>> flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
-->>>> flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
-->>>> Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
-->>>
-->>> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
-->>> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
-->>> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
-->>>
-->>> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
-->>> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well. korea and
-->>> vietnam, even less so. iraq - don't make me laugh.
-->>>
-->>> note that this is not to say we should not be grateful to our vets, but
-->>> preserving our rights is *not* what they were doing. we citizens have to
-->>> do that ourselves, and here in this country, not overseas.
-->>>
-->>> (jeez, sounds pretty wingnutty, huh?)
-->>>
-->>> your pal,
-->>> blake
-->>
-->> You miss the whole point. None of these freedoms would be available to
-->> you if it were not for the soldiers/sailors/airmen who preserve and
-->> defend this country and its constitution from people who would take all
-->> the liberties and property you have.
-->>
-->> The fact that we have never had to defend the mainland USA from forces
-->> that would occupy it only serves to prove that the threat of action by
-->> our military (to defend the USA) has been effective.
-->>
-->> Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc are totally irrelevant to Sgt. O'Brien's
-->> statement.
-->>
-->> EJ in NJ
-->
-->Sorry EJ. I was irritated, but read it from your reply. I was really
-->irritated at Murphy. I missed the start/stop of the posts.
-->
-->Blake -
-->
-->Feel free to call me a "wingnut". I will absorb that as something people
-->not willing to put their life on the line to preserve the freedoms of
-->all, are the same people that I protected when I served. I have zero
-->issue with your opinion, but I do consider it rather lame.
-->
-->If someone else is willing to put their life on the line for you to have
-->a verbal opinion, what does that make them?
-->
-->I would never have an issue with you having a "ponce" opinion about
-->anything.
-->
-->I consider your stance that my protecting that right and meaning
-->nothing, a sore point.
-->
-->Next you will say that the jews have nothing to complain about in regard
-->to WWII.
-->
-->Defending the homeland? That is your point?
-->
-->You are a ponce.
-->
-->Just because we have not been invaded is not an excuse for not taking
-->responsibility for out actions. Nor is it a good excuse for not taking
-->action when we were isolationists.
-->
-->We all have to be responsible for our actions, or our inactivity.
-->
-->That includes you.
-->
-->You lost my respect today.
-->
-->I know that means nothing to you... but it is still a fact.

You join because it's your choice to serve your country and protect
your loved ones. It being a career is secondary.

Stu wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:14:24 -0500, Bob Muncie <bob.muncie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> -->EJ Willson wrote:
> -->> blake murphy wrote:
> -->>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> -->>>
> -->>>> In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
> -->>>> <recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
> -->>>>
> -->>>>> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty
> -->>>>> somethings
> -->>>>> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
> -->>>>> ourselves to blame for that.
> -->>>> Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
> -->>>>
> -->>>> I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
> -->>>> "In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
> -->>>>
> -->>>> Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
> -->>>> indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
> -->>>> don't understand what fighting evil means.
> -->>>>
> -->>>> "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
> -->>>> the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
> -->>>> freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
> -->>>> gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
> -->>>> flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
> -->>>> flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
> -->>>> Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
> -->>>
> -->>> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
> -->>> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
> -->>> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
> -->>>
> -->>> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
> -->>> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well. korea and
> -->>> vietnam, even less so. iraq - don't make me laugh.
> -->>>
> -->>> note that this is not to say we should not be grateful to our vets, but
> -->>> preserving our rights is *not* what they were doing. we citizens have to
> -->>> do that ourselves, and here in this country, not overseas.
> -->>>
> -->>> (jeez, sounds pretty wingnutty, huh?)
> -->>>
> -->>> your pal,
> -->>> blake
> -->>
> -->> You miss the whole point. None of these freedoms would be available to
> -->> you if it were not for the soldiers/sailors/airmen who preserve and
> -->> defend this country and its constitution from people who would take all
> -->> the liberties and property you have.
> -->>
> -->> The fact that we have never had to defend the mainland USA from forces
> -->> that would occupy it only serves to prove that the threat of action by
> -->> our military (to defend the USA) has been effective.
> -->>
> -->> Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc are totally irrelevant to Sgt. O'Brien's
> -->> statement.
> -->>
> -->> EJ in NJ
> -->
> -->Sorry EJ. I was irritated, but read it from your reply. I was really
> -->irritated at Murphy. I missed the start/stop of the posts.
> -->
> -->Blake -
> -->
> -->Feel free to call me a "wingnut". I will absorb that as something people
> -->not willing to put their life on the line to preserve the freedoms of
> -->all, are the same people that I protected when I served. I have zero
> -->issue with your opinion, but I do consider it rather lame.
> -->
> -->If someone else is willing to put their life on the line for you to have
> -->a verbal opinion, what does that make them?
> -->
> -->I would never have an issue with you having a "ponce" opinion about
> -->anything.
> -->
> -->I consider your stance that my protecting that right and meaning
> -->nothing, a sore point.
> -->
> -->Next you will say that the jews have nothing to complain about in regard
> -->to WWII.
> -->
> -->Defending the homeland? That is your point?
> -->
> -->You are a ponce.
> -->
> -->Just because we have not been invaded is not an excuse for not taking
> -->responsibility for out actions. Nor is it a good excuse for not taking
> -->action when we were isolationists.
> -->
> -->We all have to be responsible for our actions, or our inactivity.
> -->
> -->That includes you.
> -->
> -->You lost my respect today.
> -->
> -->I know that means nothing to you... but it is still a fact.
>
> You join because it's your choice to serve your country and protect
> your loved ones. It being a career is secondary.

ISTM that some of you are blaming the US military for these wars
(Vietnam, Iraq, etc.) Am I correct?

EJ in NJ

EJ Willson wrote:
> Stu wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:14:24 -0500, Bob Muncie <bob.muncie@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> -->EJ Willson wrote:
>> -->> blake murphy wrote:
>> -->>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> -->>>
>> -->>>> In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
>> -->>>> <recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
>> -->>>>
>> -->>>>> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most
>> twenty -->>>>> somethings
>> -->>>>> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about,
>> and we have
>> -->>>>> ourselves to blame for that.
>> -->>>> Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
>> -->>>>
>> -->>>> I read recently about school kids being asked what they though
>> the poem
>> -->>>> "In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
>> -->>>>
>> -->>>> Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
>> -->>>> indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they
>> just
>> -->>>> don't understand what fighting evil means.
>> -->>>>
>> -->>>> "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the
>> freedom of
>> -->>>> the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
>> -->>>> freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
>> who
>> -->>>> gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who
>> salutes the
>> -->>>> flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped
>> by the
>> -->>>> flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
>> -->>>> Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
>> -->>>
>> -->>> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war
>> since wwii
>> -->>> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving
>> us our
>> -->>> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
>> -->>>
>> -->>> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the
>> japanese
>> -->>> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well.
>> korea and
>> -->>> vietnam, even less so. iraq - don't make me laugh.
>> -->>>
>> -->>> note that this is not to say we should not be grateful to our
>> vets, but
>> -->>> preserving our rights is *not* what they were doing. we
>> citizens have to
>> -->>> do that ourselves, and here in this country, not overseas.
>> -->>>
>> -->>> (jeez, sounds pretty wingnutty, huh?)
>> -->>>
>> -->>> your pal,
>> -->>> blake
>> -->> -->> You miss the whole point. None of these freedoms would be
>> available to -->> you if it were not for the soldiers/sailors/airmen
>> who preserve and -->> defend this country and its constitution from
>> people who would take all -->> the liberties and property you have.
>> -->> -->> The fact that we have never had to defend the mainland USA
>> from forces -->> that would occupy it only serves to prove that the
>> threat of action by -->> our military (to defend the USA) has been
>> effective.
>> -->> -->> Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc are totally irrelevant to Sgt.
>> O'Brien's -->> statement.
>> -->> -->> EJ in NJ
>> -->
>> -->Sorry EJ. I was irritated, but read it from your reply. I was
>> really -->irritated at Murphy. I missed the start/stop of the posts.
>> -->
>> -->Blake -
>> -->
>> -->Feel free to call me a "wingnut". I will absorb that as something
>> people -->not willing to put their life on the line to preserve the
>> freedoms of -->all, are the same people that I protected when I
>> served. I have zero -->issue with your opinion, but I do consider it
>> rather lame.
>> -->
>> -->If someone else is willing to put their life on the line for you to
>> have -->a verbal opinion, what does that make them?
>> -->
>> -->I would never have an issue with you having a "ponce" opinion about
>> -->anything.
>> -->
>> -->I consider your stance that my protecting that right and meaning
>> -->nothing, a sore point.
>> -->
>> -->Next you will say that the jews have nothing to complain about in
>> regard -->to WWII.
>> -->
>> -->Defending the homeland? That is your point?
>> -->
>> -->You are a ponce.
>> -->
>> -->Just because we have not been invaded is not an excuse for not
>> taking -->responsibility for out actions. Nor is it a good excuse for
>> not taking -->action when we were isolationists.
>> -->
>> -->We all have to be responsible for our actions, or our inactivity.
>> -->
>> -->That includes you.
>> -->
>> -->You lost my respect today.
>> -->
>> -->I know that means nothing to you... but it is still a fact.
>>
>> You join because it's your choice to serve your country and protect
>> your loved ones. It being a career is secondary.
>
> ISTM that some of you are blaming the US military for these wars
> (Vietnam, Iraq, etc.) Am I correct?
>
> EJ in NJ

I don't consider that a correct assessment. But as long as you are
thinking about it, it is a step forward.

Bob

Stu wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:14:24 -0500, Bob Muncie <bob.muncie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> -->EJ Willson wrote:
> -->> blake murphy wrote:
> -->>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> -->>>
> -->>>> In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
> -->>>> <recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
> -->>>>
> -->>>>> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty
> -->>>>> somethings
> -->>>>> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
> -->>>>> ourselves to blame for that.
> -->>>> Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
> -->>>>
> -->>>> I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
> -->>>> "In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
> -->>>>
> -->>>> Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
> -->>>> indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
> -->>>> don't understand what fighting evil means.
> -->>>>
> -->>>> "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
> -->>>> the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
> -->>>> freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
> -->>>> gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
> -->>>> flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
> -->>>> flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
> -->>>> Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
> -->>>
> -->>> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
> -->>> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
> -->>> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
> -->>>
> -->>> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
> -->>> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well. korea and
> -->>> vietnam, even less so. iraq - don't make me laugh.
> -->>>
> -->>> note that this is not to say we should not be grateful to our vets, but
> -->>> preserving our rights is *not* what they were doing. we citizens have to
> -->>> do that ourselves, and here in this country, not overseas.
> -->>>
> -->>> (jeez, sounds pretty wingnutty, huh?)
> -->>>
> -->>> your pal,
> -->>> blake
> -->>
> -->> You miss the whole point. None of these freedoms would be available to
> -->> you if it were not for the soldiers/sailors/airmen who preserve and
> -->> defend this country and its constitution from people who would take all
> -->> the liberties and property you have.
> -->>
> -->> The fact that we have never had to defend the mainland USA from forces
> -->> that would occupy it only serves to prove that the threat of action by
> -->> our military (to defend the USA) has been effective.
> -->>
> -->> Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc are totally irrelevant to Sgt. O'Brien's
> -->> statement.
> -->>
> -->> EJ in NJ
> -->
> -->Sorry EJ. I was irritated, but read it from your reply. I was really
> -->irritated at Murphy. I missed the start/stop of the posts.
> -->
> -->Blake -
> -->
> -->Feel free to call me a "wingnut". I will absorb that as something people
> -->not willing to put their life on the line to preserve the freedoms of
> -->all, are the same people that I protected when I served. I have zero
> -->issue with your opinion, but I do consider it rather lame.
> -->
> -->If someone else is willing to put their life on the line for you to have
> -->a verbal opinion, what does that make them?
> -->
> -->I would never have an issue with you having a "ponce" opinion about
> -->anything.
> -->
> -->I consider your stance that my protecting that right and meaning
> -->nothing, a sore point.
> -->
> -->Next you will say that the jews have nothing to complain about in regard
> -->to WWII.
> -->
> -->Defending the homeland? That is your point?
> -->
> -->You are a ponce.
> -->
> -->Just because we have not been invaded is not an excuse for not taking
> -->responsibility for out actions. Nor is it a good excuse for not taking
> -->action when we were isolationists.
> -->
> -->We all have to be responsible for our actions, or our inactivity.
> -->
> -->That includes you.
> -->
> -->You lost my respect today.
> -->
> -->I know that means nothing to you... but it is still a fact.
>
> You join because it's your choice to serve your country and protect
> your loved ones. It being a career is secondary.

I so much agree with that thought. That is why at the the ten year mark,
I became a civilian again.

I felt it would be a negative for my family to remain in the military.
If I did not have my own family at that time to be concerned with, I
would have stayed in the military until retirement.

I liked the lifestyle, I believed in the reasons why I was there, and
even if the administrations were sometimes hard to appreciate, I loved
my country. Not the administration running it.

And I did make the original choice. No one forced me to. I also do not
regret having made that choice.

Bob

On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:09:40 -0800, Dan Abel wrote:

> In article <m805dsfc29u7$.s8p7ydkmnuef.dlg@40tude.net>,
> blake murphy <blakepmNOTTHIS@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
>> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
>> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
>>
>> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
>> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well.
>
> Militarily or economically? Hitler intended to unify Europe and make it
> a major world power. Who knows what his ultimate goal was?
>
>> korea and
>> vietnam, even less so.
>
> Of course, the stated goal was "stopping the Red Menace". It was just a
> coincidence that we pulled out of Vietnam once synthetic rubber was
> invented.
>
>> iraq - don't make me laugh.
>
> Saddam Hussein was a big enthusiast of Hitler and plans for world
> domination. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, if Saddam Hussein
> had in fact conquered the Middle East, that country might have become a
> world power.

sounds like a lot of 'ifs' and 'mights' to me - most of which have been
disproven in the event. the dominoes did not collapse and obliterate
california, and hussein turns out to have been in no position to conquer
the middle east.

note again i'm not saying anything about whether those conflicts were
worthwhile (though i think they were not), but that since they were not
some kind to existence of the u.s., in no way were about 'giving us our
freedoms.'

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:42:42 -0500, EJ Willson wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>
>>> In article <km4nf5dpt76vb5qshm01osbhnpm0doqhiq@4ax.com>, Stu
>>> <recipes@foodforu.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> .... and to alot of people it's just a extra day off. Most twenty somethings
>>>> don't have a clue about what Rememberance Day is all about, and we have
>>>> ourselves to blame for that.
>>> Remembrance Day. You have an extra "e" in there.
>>>
>>> I read recently about school kids being asked what they though the poem
>>> "In Flanders Fields" meant. The majority said "peace".
>>>
>>> Obviously they either didn't read the poem, or have been so
>>> indoctrinated by what passes for education these days that they just
>>> don't understand what fighting evil means.
>>>
>>> "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of
>>> the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the
>>> freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who
>>> gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the
>>> flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the
>>> flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." -- Father Dennis
>>> Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC
>>>
>>
>> what a load of crap. the united states hasn't been in a war since wwii
>> (and maybe not even then) that had anything to do with 'giving us our
>> freedoms.' that's already handled under the constitution.
>>
>> and since it was pretty damned unlikely that the nazis or the japanese
>> empire would conquer the u.s., likely that is crap as well. korea and
>> vietnam, even less so. iraq - don't make me laugh.
>>
>> note that this is not to say we should not be grateful to our vets, but
>> preserving our rights is *not* what they were doing. we citizens have to
>> do that ourselves, and here in this country, not overseas.
>>
>> (jeez, sounds pretty wingnutty, huh?)
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> You miss the whole point. None of these freedoms would be available to
> you if it were not for the soldiers/sailors/airmen who preserve and
> defend this country and its constitution from people who would take all
> the liberties and property you have.
>
> The fact that we have never had to defend the mainland USA from forces
> that would occupy it only serves to prove that the threat of action by
> our military (to defend the USA) has been effective.

the fact that there are no dragons here proves that my dragon-repelling
rock is effective.

blake