Thread: Vegetarian Breakfast Sausage (meatless sausage)

On Oct 12, 6:10*pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
> >> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
> >> the usenet.
>
> >> --Tedward
>
> > It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
> > class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>
> Ha ha ha ha ha! *It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
> names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such who are
> *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". *I *did*
> attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
> are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
> them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
> athletes.
>
> Your claim is bull****.

http://kaleuniversity.org/3888-famou...n-bodybuilders

"Dave Scott (six-time winner
of Hawaii's Ironman Triathlon), Sixto Linares (world record
holder for the 24-hour triathlon), Edwin Moses (400 meter hurdler
undefeated in international competition for eight straight years),
Paavo Nurmi (twenty world records and nine Olympic medals),
Andreas Cahling (1980 Mr. International title in body building), and
Ridgely Abele (U.S. Karate Association World Champion)." But
admittedly I'm not sure how many of these are vegan. They are
vegetarian.

You're just quibbling. You know that there have been plenty of world-
class vegan athletes. I've certainly named at least two.

On Oct 12, 6:15*pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> On 10/12/2012 7:52 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12, 4:47 pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> >> On 10/12/2012 7:17 AM, The Undead Edward M. Kennedy wrote:
>
> >>> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
> >>> the usenet.
>
> >> Good one!
>
> > Seemed pretty lame to me.
>
> It was a good one. *You have a cardboard palate.

What's a cardboard palate?

On Oct 12, 6:49*pm, Rupert <rupertmccal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 6:10*pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
> > >> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
> > >> the usenet.
>
> > >> --Tedward
>
> > > It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
> > > class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>
> > Ha ha ha ha ha! *It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
> > names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such who are
> > *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". *I *did*
> > attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
> > are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
> > them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
> > athletes.
>
> > Your claim is bull****.
>
> http://kaleuniversity.org/3888-famou...n-bodybuilders
>
> "Dave Scott (six-time winner
> of Hawaii's Ironman Triathlon), Sixto Linares (world record
> holder for the 24-hour triathlon), Edwin Moses (400 meter hurdler
> undefeated in international competition for eight straight years),
> Paavo Nurmi (twenty world records and nine Olympic medals),
> Andreas Cahling (1980 Mr. International title in body building), and
> Ridgely Abele (U.S. Karate Association World Champion)." But
> admittedly I'm not sure how many of these are vegan. They are
> vegetarian.
>
> You're just quibbling. You know that there have been plenty of world-
> class vegan athletes. I've certainly named at least two.

http://www.adaptt.org/athletes.html

[Rupert, [email protected]]
[Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:46:19 -0700 (PDT)]

: Groundless accusations of lying are unethical.

....and easily dealt with, presumably. Why have you chosen otherwise?

--
Antonio Veranos

<insert witty comment here>

On Oct 12, 6:49*pm, Rupert <rupertmccal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 6:10*pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
> > >> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
> > >> the usenet.
>
> > >> --Tedward
>
> > > It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
> > > class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>
> > Ha ha ha ha ha! *It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
> > names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such who are
> > *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". *I *did*
> > attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
> > are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
> > them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
> > athletes.
>
> > Your claim is bull****.
>
> http://kaleuniversity.org/3888-famou...n-bodybuilders
>
> "Dave Scott (six-time winner
> of Hawaii's Ironman Triathlon), Sixto Linares (world record
> holder for the 24-hour triathlon), Edwin Moses (400 meter hurdler
> undefeated in international competition for eight straight years),
> Paavo Nurmi (twenty world records and nine Olympic medals),
> Andreas Cahling (1980 Mr. International title in body building), and
> Ridgely Abele (U.S. Karate Association World Champion)." But
> admittedly I'm not sure how many of these are vegan. They are
> vegetarian.
>
> You're just quibbling. You know that there have been plenty of world-
> class vegan athletes. I've certainly named at least two.

The point of course is that Mr N. A. Cho's stereotype "They all look
pasty and malnourished" is bull****. As you well know.

On Oct 12, 6:56*pm, Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
> [Rupert, rupertmccal...@yahoo.com]
> [Fri, 12 Oct 2012 08:46:19 -0700 (PDT)]
>
> : Groundless accusations of lying are unethical.
>
> ...and easily dealt with, presumably. *Why have you chosen otherwise?
>

I have presented information about vegan athletes. It's very easy to
find.

Jonathan Ball, aka George Plimpton, is quibbling about how many of
them are world-class. At least two of them are. The point is that Mr N
A Cho's stereotype of vegans as "pasty and malnourished" is nonsense.

[Rupert, [email protected]]
[Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:01:00 -0700 (PDT)]

: > : Groundless accusations of lying are unethical.
: >
: > ...and easily dealt with, presumably. *Why have you chosen otherwise?
: >
:
: I have presented information about vegan athletes. It's very easy to
: find.
:
: Jonathan Ball, aka George Plimpton, is quibbling about how many of
: them are world-class. At least two of them are. The point is that Mr N
: A Cho's stereotype of vegans as "pasty and malnourished" is nonsense.

Two is not "many".

In any case, veganism is well-understood by the medical profession to be
an inherently unhealthy lifestyle, adherence to which is quite dangerous
for many segments of the population. This isn't even in question. How
is veganism relevant to world-class athleticism, anyway? Performance at
peak levels requires peak nutrition, and it's well-known that a vegan
lifestyle is detrimental to such achievement. For those who are able to
be vegan, overriding their essential nature for whatever reason, more
power to them as far as I'm concerned... but let's don't pretend that
such people are as healthy as they could be otherwise.

--
Antonio Veranos

<insert witty comment here>

On Oct 12, 6:10*pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
> >> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
> >> the usenet.
>
> >> --Tedward
>
> > It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
> > class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>
> Ha ha ha ha ha! *It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
> names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such who are
> *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". *I *did*
> attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
> are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
> them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
> athletes.
>
> Your claim is bull****.

Brendan Brazier is another one. "During his six year career, Brazier
was regarded as one of the top endurance athletes in the world." He
was vegan during this time.

It's moving the goalposts to say "currently". My claim was not
specific to the present tense.

My claim was based on a memory of reading something about world-class
athletes, but I now realize that that was vegetarian, not vegan.
However I have found you three world-class vegan athletes. No doubt
more could be found. This is boring. Don't you have anything better to
do with your time?

On Oct 12, 6:10*pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
> >> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
> >> the usenet.
>
> >> --Tedward
>
> > It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
> > class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>
> Ha ha ha ha ha! *It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
> names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such who are
> *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". *I *did*
> attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
> are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
> them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
> athletes.
>
> Your claim is bull****.

And Scott Jurek.

On Oct 12, 7:11*pm, Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
> [Rupert, rupertmccal...@yahoo.com]
> [Fri, 12 Oct 2012 10:01:00 -0700 (PDT)]
>
> : > : Groundless accusations of lying are unethical.
> : >
> : > ...and easily dealt with, presumably. Why have you chosen otherwise?
> : >
> :
> : I have presented information about vegan athletes. It's very easy to
> : find.
> :
> : Jonathan Ball, aka George Plimpton, is quibbling about how many of
> : them are world-class. At least two of them are. The point is that Mr N
> : A Cho's stereotype of vegans as "pasty and malnourished" is nonsense.
>
> Two is not "many".
>

It's up to four now. It's harder than I thought to find athletes who
are both world-class and vegan. It's a lot easier if you relax it to
"vegetarian".

> In any case, veganism is well-understood by the medical profession to be
> an inherently unhealthy lifestyle, adherence to which is quite dangerous
> for many segments of the population. *This isn't even in question.

Actually, it's complete nonsense. The position of the American
Dietetic Association is that vegan diets are nutritionally adequate at
all stages of life and have many significant health benefits. Two
doctors have told me that it is good for my health that I am vegan.
There are many studies indicating that vegan diets can have
significant benefits for reducing the risk of heart disease and
cancer. There is no evidence at all that a vegan diet is inherently
unhealthy.

> How
> is veganism relevant to world-class athleticism, anyway? *Performance at
> peak levels requires peak nutrition, and it's well-known that a vegan
> lifestyle is detrimental to such achievement. *For those who are able to
> be vegan, overriding their essential nature for whatever reason, more
> power to them as far as I'm concerned... but let's don't pretend that
> such people are as healthy as they could be otherwise.
>

They are more healthy than they would be otherwise.

> --
> Antonio Veranos
>
> <insert witty comment here>

On 10/12/2012 9:49 AM, Rupert wrote:
> On Oct 12, 6:10 pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>> On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
>>>> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
>>>> the usenet.
>>
>>>> --Tedward
>>
>>> It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
>>> class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>>
>> Ha ha ha ha ha! It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
>> names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such who are
>> *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". I *did*
>> attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
>> are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
>> them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
>> athletes.
>>
>> Your claim is bull****.
>
> http://kaleuniversity.org/3888-famou...n-bodybuilders
>
> "Dave Scott (six-time winner
> of Hawaii's Ironman Triathlon), Sixto Linares (world record
> holder for the 24-hour triathlon),

These lists are just stupid. Why are "vegans" so ****ing insecure they
feel they need to put them together? Any why is the list of *real*
"world-class" athletes who are "vegan" so short, while the list of
****ing ****witted showbiz celebrity "vegans" so long?

Here's the basic truth - a truth with real meat in it: "vegans" very
rarely are people of substance. "veganism" is the victory of style over
substance, and that's always a bad thing - always.

On Oct 13, 5:47*pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> On 10/12/2012 9:49 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 12, 6:10 pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> >> On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>> On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
> >>>> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
> >>>> the usenet.
>
> >>>> --Tedward
>
> >>> It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
> >>> class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>
> >> Ha ha ha ha ha! *It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
> >> names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such who are
> >> *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". *I *did*
> >> attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
> >> are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
> >> them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
> >> athletes.
>
> >> Your claim is bull****.
>
> >http://kaleuniversity.org/3888-famou...n-bodybuilders
>
> > "Dave Scott (six-time winner
> > of Hawaii's Ironman Triathlon), Sixto Linares (world record
> > holder for the 24-hour triathlon),
>
> These lists are just stupid. *Why are "vegans" so ****ing insecure they
> feel they need to put them together?

The point of the list is to demonstrate that it is perfectly possible
to get peak nutrition on a vegan diet.

>*Any why is the list of *real*
> "world-class" athletes who are "vegan" so short, while the list of
> ****ing ****witted showbiz celebrity "vegans" so long?
>
> Here's the basic truth - a truth with real meat in it: *"vegans" very
> rarely are people of substance.

You have no particular rational grounds for saying that.

Do you suppose that you are a person of substance?

> "veganism" is the victory of style over
> substance, and that's always a bad thing - always.

[Rupert, [email protected]]
[Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:48:04 -0700 (PDT)]

: > Here's the basic truth - a truth with real meat in it: *"vegans" very
: > rarely are people of substance.
:
: You have no particular rational grounds for saying that.
:
: Do you suppose that you are a person of substance?

Here's one: all vegans are hypocrites.

--
Antonio Veranos

<insert witty comment here>

I think it’s very interesting,thanks for sharing.




--
Boylovely

On Oct 13, 6:49*pm, Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
> [Rupert, rupertmccal...@yahoo.com]
> [Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:48:04 -0700 (PDT)]
>
> : > Here's the basic truth - a truth with real meat in it: "vegans" very
> : > rarely are people of substance.
> :
> : You have no particular rational grounds for saying that.
> :
> : Do you suppose that you are a person of substance?
>
> Here's one: all vegans are hypocrites.
>

And why exactly do you think that?

[Rupert, [email protected]]
[Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:23:39 -0700 (PDT)]

: > Here's one: all vegans are hypocrites.
: >
:
: And why exactly do you think that?

Plankton.

--
Antonio Veranos

<insert witty comment here>

On 10/13/2012 9:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
> On Oct 13, 5:47 pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>> On 10/12/2012 9:49 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 12, 6:10 pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
>>>>>> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
>>>>>> the usenet.
>>
>>>>>> --Tedward
>>
>>>>> It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
>>>>> class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>>
>>>> Ha ha ha ha ha! It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
>>>> names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such who are
>>>> *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". I *did*
>>>> attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
>>>> are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
>>>> them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
>>>> athletes.
>>
>>>> Your claim is bull****.
>>
>>> http://kaleuniversity.org/3888-famou...n-bodybuilders
>>
>>> "Dave Scott (six-time winner
>>> of Hawaii's Ironman Triathlon), Sixto Linares (world record
>>> holder for the 24-hour triathlon),
>>
>> These lists are just stupid. Why are "vegans" so ****ing insecure they
>> feel they need to put them together?
>
> The point of the list is to demonstrate that it is perfectly possible
> to get peak nutrition on a vegan diet.

No, that's *not* the point of the list, and you ****ing well know it.
The point of the list is to try to attach some of the prestige of
"world-class" athletes to "veganism".


>> Any why is the list of *real*
>> "world-class" athletes who are "vegan" so short, while the list of
>> ****ing ****witted showbiz celebrity "vegans" so long?
>>
>> Here's the basic truth - a truth with real meat in it: "vegans" very
>> rarely are people of substance.
>
> You have no particular rational grounds for saying that.

I have every rational grounds for saying it. It's a fact.


>> "veganism" is the victory of style over
>> substance, and that's always a bad thing - always.
>

On Oct 14, 1:51*am, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> On 10/13/2012 9:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 13, 5:47 pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> >> On 10/12/2012 9:49 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>> On Oct 12, 6:10 pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
> >>>> On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
> >>>>>> the usenet.
>
> >>>>>> --Tedward
>
> >>>>> It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
> >>>>> class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>
> >>>> Ha ha ha ha ha! *It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
> >>>> names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such whoare
> >>>> *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". *I *did*
> >>>> attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
> >>>> are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
> >>>> them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
> >>>> athletes.
>
> >>>> Your claim is bull****.
>
> >>>http://kaleuniversity.org/3888-famou...n-bodybuilders
>
> >>> "Dave Scott (six-time winner
> >>> of Hawaii's Ironman Triathlon), Sixto Linares (world record
> >>> holder for the 24-hour triathlon),
>
> >> These lists are just stupid. *Why are "vegans" so ****ing insecure they
> >> feel they need to put them together?
>
> > The point of the list is to demonstrate that it is perfectly possible
> > to get peak nutrition on a vegan diet.
>
> No, that's *not* the point of the list, and you ****ing well know it.
> The point of the list is to try to attach some of the prestige of
> "world-class" athletes to "veganism".
>

What an interesting opinion you have there.

> >> * Any why is the list of *real*
> >> "world-class" athletes who are "vegan" so short, while the list of
> >> ****ing ****witted showbiz celebrity "vegans" so long?
>
> >> Here's the basic truth - a truth with real meat in it: *"vegans" very
> >> rarely are people of substance.
>
> > You have no particular rational grounds for saying that.
>
> I have every rational grounds for saying it. *It's a fact.
>

What, precisely, would those rational grounds be?

On 10/14/2012 1:45 AM, Rupert wrote:
> On Oct 14, 1:51 am, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>> On 10/13/2012 9:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 13, 5:47 pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2012 9:49 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Oct 12, 6:10 pm, George Plimpton <geo...@si.not> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/12/2012 7:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 4:17 pm, "The Undead Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> None of them, unfortunately, will actually admit to their existence on
>>>>>>>> the usenet.
>>
>>>>>>>> --Tedward
>>
>>>>>>> It would be very easy for you to verify the existence of many world-
>>>>>>> class vegan athletes if you wished to. Google is your friend.
>>
>>>>>> Ha ha ha ha ha! It would be very easy for *you* simply to list the
>>>>>> names of 50-100 of them, if there really were "quite a few" such who are
>>>>>> *currently* "world-class" athletes who are also "vegan". I *did*
>>>>>> attempt to Google such a list, and as I already posted, a) most of them
>>>>>> are not "vegan" but rather some degree of vegetarian, and b) most of
>>>>>> them weren't even vegetarian during their years as active "world-class"
>>>>>> athletes.
>>
>>>>>> Your claim is bull****.
>>
>>>>> http://kaleuniversity.org/3888-famou...n-bodybuilders
>>
>>>>> "Dave Scott (six-time winner
>>>>> of Hawaii's Ironman Triathlon), Sixto Linares (world record
>>>>> holder for the 24-hour triathlon),
>>
>>>> These lists are just stupid. Why are "vegans" so ****ing insecure they
>>>> feel they need to put them together?
>>
>>> The point of the list is to demonstrate that it is perfectly possible
>>> to get peak nutrition on a vegan diet.
>>
>> No, that's *not* the point of the list, and you ****ing well know it.
>> The point of the list is to try to attach some of the prestige of
>> "world-class" athletes to "veganism".
>>
>
> What an interesting opinion you have there.

It's a statement of fact. That's what *all* those lists are. "vegans"
are very acutely aware of their lunatic-fringe status, and these lists
are a desperate, plaintive effort to try to attach prestige to their
position. It's a form of appeal to authority - a logical fallacy.


>>>> Any why is the list of *real*
>>>> "world-class" athletes who are "vegan" so short, while the list of
>>>> ****ing ****witted showbiz celebrity "vegans" so long?
>>
>>>> Here's the basic truth - a truth with real meat in it: "vegans" very
>>>> rarely are people of substance.
>>
>>> You have no particular rational grounds for saying that.
>>
>> I have every rational grounds for saying it. It's a fact.
>>
>
> What, precisely, would those rational grounds be?

My observation that publicly visible "vegans" usually are people who
have done nothing of substance. Also, my observation that these lists
of "famous 'vegans'" *ALWAYS* are disproportionately populated by
obviously flaky people in show business and pop culture, while there is
a huge and glaring lack of engineers, scientists and, especially,
prominent medical doctors.

"veganism" simply is not a serious proposition. It's style, not substance.