Thread: tech support question, regarding-- tea, beer

On Oct 9, 4:23*pm, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
> Why is tea good cold or hot, but beer is only good when cold?

What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.

"Chemo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..

What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.

---

Please, f**k that ****... Heine or Becks. I got standards!

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:30:49 -0400, "Somebody" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Chemo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]..
>
>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>
>---
>
>Please, f**k that ****... Heine or Becks. I got standards!
>

The better the beer, the better it is warm.

John Kuthe...

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:25:31 -0700 (PDT), Chemo <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Oct 9, 4:23*pm, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>> Why is tea good cold or hot, but beer is only good when cold?
>
>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.


Given a choice between the two, Pabst would win. IMO, Guinness is the
worst beer I ever tasted. Tried it twice but could not finish it. The
popularity of it puzzles me.

"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:25:31 -0700 (PDT), Chemo <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 9, 4:23 pm, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>>> Why is tea good cold or hot, but beer is only good when cold?
>>
>>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>
>
> Given a choice between the two, Pabst would win. IMO, Guinness is the
> worst beer I ever tasted. Tried it twice but could not finish it. The
> popularity of it puzzles me.

It's ale, not beer for one. It is a stout ale which is extremely malty,
heavily roastyed chocolate malt to be exact, and in the case of Guinness
includes a bit of spoiled ale. It's not bad at all, it is actually an
outstanding example of a stout ale. You just do not like it.

Paul

"John Kuthe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:30:49 -0400, "Somebody" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Chemo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]..
>>
>>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>>
>>---
>>
>>Please, f**k that ****... Heine or Becks. I got standards!
>>
>
> The better the beer, the better it is warm.

Errr - no. Beers taste best at the ideal fermentation temperature for the
yeasts which were used. This brings out the delicate esthers which
contribute so much to the flavor profile. Lagers and pilseners ferment cold
while ales ferment warm. That is why ales taste best warm. By warm we are
talking 66-68F as opposed to lagers which are best around 34-36F.

Paul

On Oct 9, 9:43*pm, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> "John Kuthe" <JohnKu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]..
>
> > On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:30:49 -0400, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>
> >>"Chemo" <bhansen1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
>
> >>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>
> >>---
>
> >>Please, f**k that ****... *Heine or Becks. *I got standards!
>
> > The better the beer, the better it is warm.
>
> Errr - no. *Beers taste best at the ideal fermentation temperature for the
> yeasts which were used. *This brings out the delicate esthers which
> contribute so much to the flavor profile. *Lagers and pilseners fermentcold
> while ales ferment warm. *That is why ales taste best warm. *By warm we are
> talking 66-68F as opposed to lagers which are best around 34-36F.
>
> Paul


IMHO, Homebrewed ale tastes best with just a bit of a chill on it,
even though it ferments around 70 degrees. Of course homebrew is not
pasteurized so there may be some different things going on there, as
opposed to the sterile, packaged stuff.

"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:25:31 -0700 (PDT), Chemo <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 9, 4:23 pm, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>>> Why is tea good cold or hot, but beer is only good when cold?
>>
>>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>
>
> Given a choice between the two, Pabst would win. IMO, Guinness is the
> worst beer I ever tasted. Tried it twice but could not finish it. The
> popularity of it puzzles me.

There's Guinness and there's Guinness and there's Guinness.
If you have had it in any way other than from the Irish keg on tap,
in a place with high turnover, forget it. If you have had any of the
bottled abortions under a Guinness label, forget it. The true
Guinness is soft, very smooth, rich almost beyond compare,
no rough edges at all, just lovely mother's milk. Go on a quest,
seek it out. Whatever you have had is bad and wrong.

pavane

"Christopher Helms" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
On Oct 9, 9:43 pm, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> "John Kuthe" <JohnKu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]..
>
> > On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:30:49 -0400, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>
> >>"Chemo" <bhansen1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]..
>
> >>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>
> >>---
>
> >>Please, f**k that ****... Heine or Becks. I got standards!
>
> > The better the beer, the better it is warm.
>
> Errr - no. Beers taste best at the ideal fermentation temperature for the
> yeasts which were used. This brings out the delicate esthers which
> contribute so much to the flavor profile. Lagers and pilseners ferment
> cold
> while ales ferment warm. That is why ales taste best warm. By warm we are
> talking 66-68F as opposed to lagers which are best around 34-36F.
>
> Paul


IMHO, Homebrewed ale tastes best with just a bit of a chill on it,
even though it ferments around 70 degrees. Of course homebrew is not
pasteurized so there may be some different things going on there, as
opposed to the sterile, packaged stuff.


Beer and ale, even the commercial stuff. is not pasteurized as the pathogens
that would be killed by pasteurization - ie salmonella, listeria, e. coli,
cannot live in beer due the alcohol content and extreme acidity. Not only
that but beer is boiled for a long time after the wort stage. It is quite
thoroughly sanitized prior to fermentation.

Nothing that can harm a human can live in beer.

Paul

"pavane" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:HI5ds.573994$[email protected]..
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]..
>> On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:25:31 -0700 (PDT), Chemo <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Oct 9, 4:23 pm, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>>>> Why is tea good cold or hot, but beer is only good when cold?
>>>
>>>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>>
>>
>> Given a choice between the two, Pabst would win. IMO, Guinness is the
>> worst beer I ever tasted. Tried it twice but could not finish it. The
>> popularity of it puzzles me.
>
> There's Guinness and there's Guinness and there's Guinness.
> If you have had it in any way other than from the Irish keg on tap,
> in a place with high turnover, forget it. If you have had any of the
> bottled abortions under a Guinness label, forget it. The true
> Guinness is soft, very smooth, rich almost beyond compare,
> no rough edges at all, just lovely mother's milk. Go on a quest,
> seek it out. Whatever you have had is bad and wrong.
>
> pavane


The best thing Guinness did was to developed the nitrogen charge which kicks
in when the can is opened. The can is lined with plastic so you don't get
the can taste. It's pretty darn good.

Paul

On Oct 9, 10:37*pm, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> "Christopher Helms" <chrishel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]..
> On Oct 9, 9:43 pm, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "John Kuthe" <JohnKu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:[email protected]. .
>
> > > On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:30:49 -0400, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>
> > >>"Chemo" <bhansen1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:[email protected]...
>
> > >>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>
> > >>---
>
> > >>Please, f**k that ****... Heine or Becks. I got standards!
>
> > > The better the beer, the better it is warm.
>
> > Errr - no. Beers taste best at the ideal fermentation temperature for the
> > yeasts which were used. This brings out the delicate esthers which
> > contribute so much to the flavor profile. Lagers and pilseners ferment
> > cold
> > while ales ferment warm. That is why ales taste best warm. By warm we are
> > talking 66-68F as opposed to lagers which are best around 34-36F.
>
> > Paul
>
> IMHO, Homebrewed ale tastes best with just a bit of a chill on it,
> even though it ferments around 70 degrees. Of course homebrew is not
> pasteurized so there may be some different things going on there, as
> opposed to the sterile, packaged stuff.
>
> Beer and ale, even the commercial stuff. is not pasteurized as the pathogens
> that would be killed by pasteurization - ie salmonella, listeria, e. coli,
> cannot live in beer due the alcohol content and extreme acidity. *Not only
> that but beer is boiled for a long time after the wort stage. *It is quite
> thoroughly sanitized prior to fermentation.
>
> Nothing that can harm a human can live in beer.
>
> Paul


They don't do it to kill pathogens. Its to extend shelf life. The
yeast is very much alive and would alter the stuff in the bottle or
can over the months and months that commercial brews can sit around
between the brewery and pizza night or Sports Center or whatever. I
believe Miller Genuine Draft is cold filtered in some way to remove
the yeast, as opposed to heating the product to kill it. They also use
chemicals for head retention and clarity, because beer doesn't like to
be heated.

On Oct 9, 8:12*pm, "pavane" <pav...@leisure.org> wrote:
>
> There's Guinness and there's Guinness and there's Guinness.
> If you have had it in any way other than from the Irish keg on tap,
> in a *place with high turnover, forget it. If you have had any of the
> bottled abortions under a Guinness label, forget it. The true
> Guinness is soft, very smooth, rich almost beyond compare,
> no rough edges at all, just lovely mother's milk. Go on a quest,
> seek it out. Whatever you have had is bad and wrong.
>
> pavane

Thank heavens there's one person who knows what Guinness should be.
When living in Great Britain in the 1970s I was a fanatic beer
drinker, sometimes traveling 50 miles to try a new real ale. There
was a lot spoken (with good reason) regarding the need for beer to
ferment in the pub and be pumped by lift pumps, not carbon dioxide.
Some of those beers are amazing.

That said, I don't care how Guinness is made, stored or pumped. It is
possibly the best beer in the world. It's the only beer whose quality
is obvious before drinking it. A perfect Guinness (draft of course)
has a tight head with tiny bubbles with no visible structure and
served at cellar temperature.

It's almost impossible to get a good Guinness in the US, it's
invariably served too cold. It can be found in Great Britain. I'm
told (as I've never been there) that what is served in Great Britain
is a poor shadow of what's available in Ireland.

http://www.richardfisher.com

"Christopher Helms" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Oct 9, 10:37 pm, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> "Christopher Helms" <chrishel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]..
> On Oct 9, 9:43 pm, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "John Kuthe" <JohnKu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:[email protected]. .
>
> > > On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:30:49 -0400, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>
> > >>"Chemo" <bhansen1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:[email protected]..
>
> > >>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink
> > >>Pabst.
>
> > >>---
>
> > >>Please, f**k that ****... Heine or Becks. I got standards!
>
> > > The better the beer, the better it is warm.
>
> > Errr - no. Beers taste best at the ideal fermentation temperature for
> > the
> > yeasts which were used. This brings out the delicate esthers which
> > contribute so much to the flavor profile. Lagers and pilseners ferment
> > cold
> > while ales ferment warm. That is why ales taste best warm. By warm we
> > are
> > talking 66-68F as opposed to lagers which are best around 34-36F.
>
> > Paul
>
> IMHO, Homebrewed ale tastes best with just a bit of a chill on it,
> even though it ferments around 70 degrees. Of course homebrew is not
> pasteurized so there may be some different things going on there, as
> opposed to the sterile, packaged stuff.
>
> Beer and ale, even the commercial stuff. is not pasteurized as the
> pathogens
> that would be killed by pasteurization - ie salmonella, listeria, e. coli,
> cannot live in beer due the alcohol content and extreme acidity. Not only
> that but beer is boiled for a long time after the wort stage. It is quite
> thoroughly sanitized prior to fermentation.
>
> Nothing that can harm a human can live in beer.
>
> Paul


They don't do it to kill pathogens. Its to extend shelf life. The
yeast is very much alive and would alter the stuff in the bottle or
can over the months and months that commercial brews can sit around
between the brewery and pizza night or Sports Center or whatever. I
believe Miller Genuine Draft is cold filtered in some way to remove
the yeast, as opposed to heating the product to kill it. They also use
chemicals for head retention and clarity, because beer doesn't like to
be heated.

---------------

Yeast is not harmful in any way shape or form - in beer that is. Yes,
natural beer is full of yeast. In fact some brewers will collect the yeast
in the bottles and revive them for another batch. It is harmless and there
is no danger whatsoever.

Paul

"Helpful person" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Oct 9, 8:12 pm, "pavane" <pav...@leisure.org> wrote:
>
> There's Guinness and there's Guinness and there's Guinness.
> If you have had it in any way other than from the Irish keg on tap,
> in a place with high turnover, forget it. If you have had any of the
> bottled abortions under a Guinness label, forget it. The true
> Guinness is soft, very smooth, rich almost beyond compare,
> no rough edges at all, just lovely mother's milk. Go on a quest,
> seek it out. Whatever you have had is bad and wrong.
>
> pavane

Thank heavens there's one person who knows what Guinness should be.
When living in Great Britain in the 1970s I was a fanatic beer
drinker, sometimes traveling 50 miles to try a new real ale. There
was a lot spoken (with good reason) regarding the need for beer to
ferment in the pub and be pumped by lift pumps, not carbon dioxide.
Some of those beers are amazing.

That said, I don't care how Guinness is made, stored or pumped. It is
possibly the best beer in the world. It's the only beer whose quality
is obvious before drinking it. A perfect Guinness (draft of course)
has a tight head with tiny bubbles with no visible structure and
served at cellar temperature.

It's almost impossible to get a good Guinness in the US, it's
invariably served too cold. It can be found in Great Britain. I'm
told (as I've never been there) that what is served in Great Britain
is a poor shadow of what's available in Ireland.

http://www.richardfisher.com


It is amazing ale to be sure. Makes a darn good pot roast too. Five
hundred years and counting - something has to be right.

Paul

"pavane" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:HI5ds.573994$[email protected]..
>
> There's Guinness and there's Guinness and there's Guinness.
> If you have had it in any way other than from the Irish keg on tap,
> in a place with high turnover, forget it. If you have had any of the
> bottled abortions under a Guinness label, forget it. The true
> Guinness is soft, very smooth, rich almost beyond compare,
> no rough edges at all, just lovely mother's milk. Go on a quest,
> seek it out. Whatever you have had is bad and wrong.
>
> pavane

Roommates had a party once and leftover beer from a tapped keg. After the
second day unrefrigerated... got so sick. I didn't think beer went bad.
Does tea?

"Helpful person" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Thank heavens there's one person who knows what Guinness should be.
When living in Great Britain in the 1970s I was a fanatic beer
drinker, sometimes traveling 50 miles to try a new real ale. There
was a lot spoken (with good reason) regarding the need for beer to
ferment in the pub and be pumped by lift pumps, not carbon dioxide.
Some of those beers are amazing.

---

I'm trying to find Henry Weinhard's pale blue ale... Had it out West. But
I don't think I can drive 4 hours to St Louis.

"Paul M. Cook" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:k52qik$9r7$[email protected]..

> Beer and ale, even the commercial stuff. is not pasteurized as the
> pathogens that would be killed by pasteurization - ie salmonella,
> listeria, e. coli, cannot live in beer due the alcohol content and extreme
> acidity. Not only that but beer is boiled for a long time after the wort
> stage. It is quite thoroughly sanitized prior to fermentation.
>
> Nothing that can harm a human can live in beer.
>
> Paul

now I am confused... Why did the keg my roommates had make us all sick?
(Guess it was not the beer but some other contamination? It was out in the
sun in Denver, mid 80s... But like you say, alcohol is supposed to be
inhospitable to little beasties-- even the ones that created it.)

On 10/9/2012 10:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:25:31 -0700 (PDT), Chemo <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 9, 4:23 pm, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>>> Why is tea good cold or hot, but beer is only good when cold?
>>
>> What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>
>
> Given a choice between the two, Pabst would win. IMO, Guinness is the
> worst beer I ever tasted. Tried it twice but could not finish it. The
> popularity of it puzzles me.
>
To me, there are many types of beer, of which Stout is one. I don't like
beer of any sort served warm. It doesn't have to be near freezing, which
is the correct temperature for Pabst, Budweiser and the like. I like
Guinness Export Special at refrigerator temperature but I'm not fond of
draft Guinness even as served in Ireland; cool but not really cold.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

On Oct 9, 9:43*pm, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> "John Kuthe" <JohnKu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]..
>
> > On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:30:49 -0400, "Somebody" <e...@mail.au> wrote:
>
> >>"Chemo" <bhansen1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
>
> >>What, you never drank Guinness warm? Oh that's right...you drink Pabst.
>
> >>---
>
> >>Please, f**k that ****... *Heine or Becks. *I got standards!
>
> > The better the beer, the better it is warm.
>
> Errr - no. *Beers taste best at the ideal fermentation temperature for the
> yeasts which were used. *This brings out the delicate esthers which
> contribute so much to the flavor profile. *Lagers and pilseners fermentcold
> while ales ferment warm. *That is why ales taste best warm. *By warm we are
> talking 66-68F as opposed to lagers which are best around 34-36F.

Bull****. You can have your warm ale. Here, the cans of canoe beer
are kept at 32-33F (the basement fridge or ice chest), and the pale
ale and good tasting lagers (Negra Modelo) at about 35-36F (the
kitchen fridge). I can enjoy Wild Cherry Diet Pepsi at room
temperature too, but I'd rather have it cold. Same with beer, even
good tasting beer.

I'm envisioning a table of bearded men, all wearing tweed jackets with
elbow patches, feeling all smug that they are drinking 67 degree beer.
>
> Paul

--Bryan