Thread: Salt.....the industry and food manufacturers are pushing back againstthe "lower the salt" forces.

ImStillMags wrote:
>
> Really interesting article in the NY Times
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/he...me&ref=general
>
> ".....the industry is working overtly and behind the scenes to fend
> off these attacks, using a shifting set of tactics that have defeated
> similar efforts for 30 years, records and interviews show. Industry

Which has been spectacularly unsuccessful.
"low sodium" is about as common a mantra
as "all natural" or "no trans fats".
It's gotten to the point where many frozen
and canned prepared foods are distinctly
undersalted.

> insiders call the strategy “delay and divert” and say companies have a
> powerful incentive to fight back: they crave salt as a low-cost way to
> create tastes and textures. Doing without it risks losing customers,
> and replacing it with more expensive ingredients risks losing profits.
> "
>
> and that's the bottom line isn't it?.......to heck with public health
> and welfare, profits uber alles!!

The New York Times sure brainwashed you,
didn't they?

Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:

>Which has been spectacularly unsuccessful.
>"low sodium" is about as common a mantra
>as "all natural" or "no trans fats".
>It's gotten to the point where many frozen
>and canned prepared foods are distinctly
>undersalted.

How do you define undersalted?

If you're eating lots of salt, all sorts of food tastes
undersalted. It depends entirely on the eater's habits
and recent sodium intake.

If you eat low salt, low salt food tastes fine and highly
salted food tastes repugnant and also makes you retain
water and swell up.

My dining partner and I ate a few months ago at a recently opened
restaurant that was good except for massive amounts of salt.
The following morning, she had gained 3.5 lbs since the previous
day. Nearly all of that is water swelling due to salt.

The problem is people who eat too much salt deciding how
much salt should go in food. This is why it should be regulated
to an exact numerical value, rather than leaving it up
to someone's taste.

Have these chefs ever thought about measuring their ingredients?

Steve

On May 30, 1:09*pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
> ImStillMags wrote:
>

>
> The New York Times sure brainwashed you,
> didn't they?


Um, no. The amount of salt in processed foods is deadly. You are
completely free to use all the salt you want in your foods that you
cook yourself, but the food processing industry should be more
conscientious, IMHO

Mark Thorson wrote:

> ImStillMags wrote:
> >
> > Really interesting article in the NY Times
> >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/he...rc=me&ref=gene
> > ral
> >
> > ".....the industry is working overtly and behind the scenes to fend
> > off these attacks, using a shifting set of tactics that have
> > defeated similar efforts for 30 years, records and interviews show.
> > Industry
>
> Which has been spectacularly unsuccessful.
> "low sodium" is about as common a mantra
> as "all natural" or "no trans fats".
> It's gotten to the point where many frozen
> and canned prepared foods are distinctly
> undersalted.

Low sodium canned foods are still much less common than high sodium
ones.

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)

Steve Pope wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Which has been spectacularly unsuccessful.
> >"low sodium" is about as common a mantra
> >as "all natural" or "no trans fats".
> >It's gotten to the point where many frozen
> >and canned prepared foods are distinctly
> >undersalted.
>
> How do you define undersalted?
>
> If you're eating lots of salt, all sorts of food tastes
> undersalted. It depends entirely on the eater's habits
> and recent sodium intake.
>
> If you eat low salt, low salt food tastes fine and highly
> salted food tastes repugnant and also makes you retain
> water and swell up.

I do eat a low salt diet, and yet there are
products (mostly at Trader Joe's) that are distinctly
undersalted. Their chicken broth concentrate and
the recently introduced Puff Pastry Margherita Pizza,
to name two. I am adapted to a low salt diet, and
yet I can tell these products cry out for more salt.

On May 30, 1:36*pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
> Steve Pope wrote:
>
> > Mark Thorson *<nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > >Which has been spectacularly unsuccessful.
> > >"low sodium" is about as common a mantra
> > >as "all natural" or "no trans fats".
> > >It's gotten to the point where many frozen
> > >and canned prepared foods are distinctly
> > >undersalted.
>
> > How do you define undersalted?
>
> > If you're eating lots of salt, all sorts of food tastes
> > undersalted. *It depends entirely on the eater's habits
> > and recent sodium intake.
>
> > If you eat low salt, low salt food tastes fine and highly
> > salted food tastes repugnant and also makes you retain
> > water and swell up.
>
> I do eat a low salt diet, and yet there are
> products (mostly at Trader Joe's) that are distinctly
> undersalted. *Their chicken broth concentrate and
> the recently introduced Puff Pastry Margherita Pizza,
> to name two. *I am adapted to a low salt diet, and
> yet I can tell these products cry out for more salt


Personally, I would prefer products that ARE undersalted. That way
you can add to your own taste. You can always add, you cannot take
away.

ImStillMags wrote:
>
> On May 30, 1:09 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
> > ImStillMags wrote:
> >
> > The New York Times sure brainwashed you,
> > didn't they?
>
> Um, no. The amount of salt in processed foods is deadly. You are
> completely free to use all the salt you want in your foods that you
> cook yourself, but the food processing industry should be more
> conscientious, IMHO

You could choose not to buy their products,
but that wouldn't work for you, right?
You just can't resist them because they're
soooo good! The only way to keep you from
eating them is to make them illegal.

ImStillMags wrote:
>
> On May 30, 1:36 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > I do eat a low salt diet, and yet there are
> > products (mostly at Trader Joe's) that are distinctly
> > undersalted. Their chicken broth concentrate and
> > the recently introduced Puff Pastry Margherita Pizza,
> > to name two. I am adapted to a low salt diet, and
> > yet I can tell these products cry out for more salt
>
> Personally, I would prefer products that ARE undersalted. That way
> you can add to your own taste. You can always add, you cannot take
> away.

You cannot always add. I did try sprinkling a little
salt on the pizza, but there was no way the salt
was going to permeate the topping and crust.
It didn't help. The pizza was hopelessly undersalted.

On May 30, 1:40*pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
> ImStillMags wrote:
>
> > On May 30, 1:09 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
> > > ImStillMags wrote:
>
> > > The New York Times sure brainwashed you,
> > > didn't they?
>
> > Um, no. *The amount of salt in processed foods is deadly. *You are
> > completely free to use all the salt you want in your foods that you
> > cook yourself, but the food processing industry should be more
> > conscientious, IMHO
>
> You could choose not to buy their products,
> but that wouldn't work for you, right?
> You just can't resist them because they're
> soooo good! *The only way to keep you from
> eating them is to make them illegal.

Why are you being snarky? I'm talking about health. Not everyone
understands or even pays attention to
their salt intake and don't make decisions based on anything but
whether or not something tastes good. Take a look
at the general population. The majority are overweight and unhealthy
and the processed food industry has a big role
in it. I know personal responsibility and accountability is up to
the individual, but I also think that these companies should be better
stewards.

Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:

>I do eat a low salt diet, and yet there are
>products (mostly at Trader Joe's) that are distinctly
>undersalted. Their chicken broth concentrate and
>the recently introduced Puff Pastry Margherita Pizza,
>to name two. I am adapted to a low salt diet, and
>yet I can tell these products cry out for more salt.

I'll have to look at the labeling for these next time
I'm at a TJ's.

How salty a broth should be depends on usage, but
for the pizza pastry it's pretty objective... if it's
not under a milligram of sodium per calorie, it
isn't undersalted. If it is, it might be undersalted.

The TJ's Italian pizzas are about 2 mg / calorie.
Definitely not undersalted.

Steve

On Sun, 30 May 2010 12:52:26 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Really interesting article in the NY Times
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/he...me&ref=general
>
>".....the industry is working overtly and behind the scenes to fend
>off these attacks, using a shifting set of tactics that have defeated
>similar efforts for 30 years, records and interviews show. Industry
>insiders call the strategy “delay and divert” and say companies have a
>powerful incentive to fight back: they crave salt as a low-cost way to
>create tastes and textures. Doing without it risks losing customers,
>and replacing it with more expensive ingredients risks losing profits.
>"
>
>
>and that's the bottom line isn't it?.......to heck with public health
>and welfare, profits uber alles!!

"Cargill and its star chef, Mr. Brown, said they recognized the health
concerns and recommended “smarter salting.”

As we all know, it's about profits for both Cargill and Mr. Brown.


“Salt is a pretty amazing compound,” Alton Brown, a Food Network star,
gushes in a Cargill video called Salt 101. “So make sure you have
plenty of salt in your kitchen at all times."

Alton Brown should be ashamed about flogging salt, and the Food
Network should look into his association with Cargill.
How can you seem to cook healthy, and shill for the salt manufacturer
in the same breath?

Steve Pope wrote:
>
> How salty a broth should be depends on usage, but
> for the pizza pastry it's pretty objective... if it's
> not under a milligram of sodium per calorie, it
> isn't undersalted. If it is, it might be undersalted.
>
> The TJ's Italian pizzas are about 2 mg / calorie.
> Definitely not undersalted.

210 milligrams sodium for 190 calories per serving,
the box containing two servings (hah!). This serving
also contains a whopping 7 grams of saturated fat.
I noticed it was too rich on the butter when I ate it.

Definitely undersalted.

Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

[ TJ pizza pastry ]

>210 milligrams sodium for 190 calories per serving,
>the box containing two servings (hah!). This serving
>also contains a whopping 7 grams of saturated fat.
>I noticed it was too rich on the butter when I ate it.

>Definitely undersalted.

Well, possibly. If one wishes to consume 2 grams of
sodium and 2000 calories per day, then on average that
is not undersalted. OTOH, if one can make some of one's
daily calories (fruit, yogurt, breakfast cereal) completely
unsalted, then one can make the savory dinner items
a little more salty and not exceed the target.

You say this is a new item... possibly they are thinking
ahead to when there is more regulation, and pro-actively
putting in less sodium.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:
>
> You say this is a new item... possibly they are thinking
> ahead to when there is more regulation, and pro-actively
> putting in less sodium.

That being my point. There is no conspiracy
to promote salt, or if there is, it has been
spectacularly unsuccessful. They've been losing
ground every year for the last 30 years.

Now, just the fear of the anti-sodium crowd
is enough to get manufacturers to mutilate
their products.

On 5/30/2010 5:37 PM, Stu wrote:
> On Sun, 30 May 2010 12:52:26 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Really interesting article in the NY Times
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/he...me&ref=general
>>
>> ".....the industry is working overtly and behind the scenes to fend
>> off these attacks, using a shifting set of tactics that have defeated
>> similar efforts for 30 years, records and interviews show. Industry
>> insiders call the strategy “delay and divert” and say companies have a
>> powerful incentive to fight back: they crave salt as a low-cost way to
>> create tastes and textures. Doing without it risks losing customers,
>> and replacing it with more expensive ingredients risks losing profits.
>> "
>>
>>
>> and that's the bottom line isn't it?.......to heck with public health
>> and welfare, profits uber alles!!
>
> "Cargill and its star chef, Mr. Brown, said they recognized the health
> concerns and recommended “smarter salting.”
>
> As we all know, it's about profits for both Cargill and Mr. Brown.
>
>
> “Salt is a pretty amazing compound,” Alton Brown, a Food Network star,
> gushes in a Cargill video called Salt 101. “So make sure you have
> plenty of salt in your kitchen at all times."
>
> Alton Brown should be ashamed about flogging salt, and the Food
> Network should look into his association with Cargill.
> How can you seem to cook healthy, and shill for the salt manufacturer
> in the same breath?

Do Alton Brown and The Food Network claim to cook _healthy_ or cook
_tasty_? If you don't like salt don't use it. But it is not your place
to tell others how to live their lives.

On Sun, 30 May 2010 20:25:53 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/30/2010 5:37 PM, Stu wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 May 2010 12:52:26 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Really interesting article in the NY Times
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/he...me&ref=general
>>>
>>> ".....the industry is working overtly and behind the scenes to fend
>>> off these attacks, using a shifting set of tactics that have defeated
>>> similar efforts for 30 years, records and interviews show. Industry
>>> insiders call the strategy “delay and divert” and say companies have a
>>> powerful incentive to fight back: they crave salt as a low-cost way to
>>> create tastes and textures. Doing without it risks losing customers,
>>> and replacing it with more expensive ingredients risks losing profits.
>>> "
>>>
>>>
>>> and that's the bottom line isn't it?.......to heck with public health
>>> and welfare, profits uber alles!!
>>
>> "Cargill and its star chef, Mr. Brown, said they recognized the health
>> concerns and recommended “smarter salting.”
>>
>> As we all know, it's about profits for both Cargill and Mr. Brown.
>>
>>
>> “Salt is a pretty amazing compound,” Alton Brown, a Food Network star,
>> gushes in a Cargill video called Salt 101. “So make sure you have
>> plenty of salt in your kitchen at all times."
>>
>> Alton Brown should be ashamed about flogging salt, and the Food
>> Network should look into his association with Cargill.
>> How can you seem to cook healthy, and shill for the salt manufacturer
>> in the same breath?
>
>Do Alton Brown and The Food Network claim to cook _healthy_ or cook
>_tasty_? If you don't like salt don't use it. But it is not your place
>to tell others how to live their lives.

Perhaps you need to heed your own advice

ImStillMags wrote:
> Really interesting article in the NY Times
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/he...me&ref=general
>
> ".....the industry is working overtly and behind the scenes to fend
> off these attacks, using a shifting set of tactics that have defeated
> similar efforts for 30 years, records and interviews show. Industry
> insiders call the strategy “delay and divert” and say companies have a
> powerful incentive to fight back: they crave salt as a low-cost way to
> create tastes and textures. Doing without it risks losing customers,
> and replacing it with more expensive ingredients risks losing profits.
> "
>
>
> and that's the bottom line isn't it?.......to heck with public health
> and welfare, profits uber alles!!

It's far too easy to make simplistic arguments when, in fact, it's a
fairly complex issue. IMHO, it comes down to what packaged food is -
poor quality ingredients that are consumed a long time after they're
prepared. We all know, from cooking at home, that both the quality of
the ingredients we use and their freshness matter, so it only follows
that if one uses ingredients with little flavor and then lets them sit
around , we end up with very bland food, which no one wants to eat.
Salt is a way to turn poor quality ingredients, poorly handled in terms
of time between preparation and consumption, into something that tastes
at least tolerable.

The alternative is stop buying prepared food and cook from fresh
ingredients. Fresh food needs far less in terms of salt - that's
perhaps the simplest way to look at it, and fresh food is expensive
compared to the alternatives.

We do not shy away from salt in our cooking, but I'm sure the food we
prepare has _far_ less salt than prepared foods.

In the end, it's our fault for buying so much prepared food in the first
place.

-S-

In article
<[email protected]>,
ImStillMags <[email protected]> wrote:

> Um, no. The amount of salt in processed foods is deadly. You are
> completely free to use all the salt you want in your foods that you
> cook yourself, but the food processing industry should be more
> conscientious, IMHO

Really? I think they are too salty, but I haven't heard of these
mass deaths. Perhaps it is like those carcinogens that are only known
in California.

Regards,
Ranee @ Arabian Knits

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/

On 5/30/2010 10:59 PM, Stu wrote:
> On Sun, 30 May 2010 20:25:53 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 5/30/2010 5:37 PM, Stu wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 May 2010 12:52:26 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Really interesting article in the NY Times
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/he...me&ref=general
>>>>
>>>> ".....the industry is working overtly and behind the scenes to fend
>>>> off these attacks, using a shifting set of tactics that have defeated
>>>> similar efforts for 30 years, records and interviews show. Industry
>>>> insiders call the strategy “delay and divert” and say companies have a
>>>> powerful incentive to fight back: they crave salt as a low-cost way to
>>>> create tastes and textures. Doing without it risks losing customers,
>>>> and replacing it with more expensive ingredients risks losing profits.
>>>> "
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and that's the bottom line isn't it?.......to heck with public health
>>>> and welfare, profits uber alles!!
>>>
>>> "Cargill and its star chef, Mr. Brown, said they recognized the health
>>> concerns and recommended “smarter salting.”
>>>
>>> As we all know, it's about profits for both Cargill and Mr. Brown.
>>>
>>>
>>> “Salt is a pretty amazing compound,” Alton Brown, a Food Network star,
>>> gushes in a Cargill video called Salt 101. “So make sure you have
>>> plenty of salt in your kitchen at all times."
>>>
>>> Alton Brown should be ashamed about flogging salt, and the Food
>>> Network should look into his association with Cargill.
>>> How can you seem to cook healthy, and shill for the salt manufacturer
>>> in the same breath?
>>
>> Do Alton Brown and The Food Network claim to cook _healthy_ or cook
>> _tasty_? If you don't like salt don't use it. But it is not your place
>> to tell others how to live their lives.
>
> Perhaps you need to heed your own advice

I haven't told you how to live your life, only to leave the rest of us
the Hell alone.