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Thread: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

  1. #1
    Gregory Morrow Guest

    Default Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    More liberal bleeding-heart crybabying, lol... :


    http://www.suntimes.com/business/154...042509.article

    Inmates, families upset about snack prices


    April 25, 2009

    FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    "TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Having to pay more for Honey Buns and other prison
    snack shop items has made inmates at Florida prisons and their families
    upset.

    The state, which has the nation's third largest state prison system, raised
    prices about three weeks ago under a new contract with an outside company.
    Since then, the department has gotten approximately 60 phone calls and
    letters from families complaining about the increases.

    "The prices have increased dramatically," one inmate's family wrote in an
    e-mail to the department signed "concerned family." "We have to send money
    to our loved one and now he can hardly buy anything substantial. Please can
    we fix this?"

    Officials are working with the company that provides the goods and sets the
    prices at Florida's about 130 prisons to see if some prices can be lowered,
    Department of Corrections spokeswoman Gretl Plessinger said Friday. Prices
    at the snack shops, called canteens, were last changed in October. While
    it's not unusual to get complaints when prices increase, Plessinger said
    there seem to be more this time.

    "Prices are going up everywhere," Plessinger said. "We're sympathetic to
    them, but it's tough on everyone."

    Prices went up March 30. Peanut M&Ms and Snickers bars jumped from 66 cents
    to 89 cents. A can of Coke that used to cost 57 cents now costs 89.

    But the price increase that has prompted the most outrage is on Honey Buns.
    The old price for the cinnamon pastry with icing was 66 cents. Now it's 99
    cents. A chocolate variety of the sweet went from 61 cents to $1.49.

    The department is looking at possibly substituting another less-expensive
    brand, Plessinger said.

    Also up: cigarettes. A pack of Marlboro cigarettes used to cost $3.70 but is
    now $4.47 -- an increase of 77 cents. The increase is, in part, the result
    of 62-cent-per-pack federal sales tax increase that went into effect April
    1. Prisons in other states also reported increasing their prices on
    cigarettes as a result.

    Money from canteen sales goes into the state's general fund, about $30
    million last year according to the department. The prices have to be in line
    with what the general public pays for goods.

    The department contracts with Missouri-based Keefe Commissary Network to
    supply the commissaries. Mark Jensen, senior vice president of Centric
    Group, Keefe's parent company, said the nationwide supplier of products to
    correctional facility commissaries doesn't comment on current customers or
    contracts.

    Inmates use a plastic ID card that works like a debit card to buy items.
    Some prisoners have jobs that pay a small amount, but most money is
    deposited in an inmate's account by family members.

    Jill Lopez has two young children and a fiance in prison in Raiford in north
    Florida who she sends between $20 and $40 a week.

    "I can't send him any more. There's no way," said Lopez, 46, a Fort Pierce
    secretary who makes $12 an hour.

    Lopez's fiance, Fred Whyms, 39, has about two years left in prison for
    dealing in stolen property. He told her inmates are extremely frustrated
    with the price increases and that some items are going missing.

    "They're all freaking out," Lopez said in a telephone interview. "You have
    grown men that are hungry. What's going to happen? There're going to be more
    fights. People are going to crankier."

    In some places that has already happened, according to Charles Norman, an
    inmate serving a life sentence at the Tomoka Correctional Institution in
    Daytona Beach.

    "Prisoners whose families sacrificed to send them money to buy sweets,
    drinks, food items, and toiletries were getting assaulted, and their canteen
    bags taken from them," he wrote in a newsletter e-mailed to friends. "The
    strong ones armed themselves."

    In an e-mail, Department of Corrections spokesman Alex Thompson said they
    had not gotten any complaints that the price increases resulted in abuse..."

    </>


    Copyright 2009 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not
    be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



  2. #2
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bobo_Bonobo=AE?= Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    On Apr 26, 2:19*pm, "Gregory Morrow" <6u...@ttt9tom.be> wrote:
    > More liberal bleeding-heart crybabying, lol... :
    >
    >

    You're such an asshole. You'd make a good prison guard yourself. I
    bet you pulled the wings off of flies as a kid.

    The reason the prices are being raised is so that some parasite
    contractor can skim money. Did you hear about Obama's plans for
    student loans? It involves cutting out parasites.

    --Bryan
    Visit Bobo Bonobo's Mortuary and Sausage Emporium
    On the web @ http://MySpace.com/BoboBonobo

  3. #3
    Omelet Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    In article <[email protected]> ,
    "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote:

    (way too long of a post to quote)

    Speaking from personal experience Greg?

    Did not know you were an inmate! Now you can have my sympathy.
    --
    Peace! Om

    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
    It's about learning to dance in the rain.
    -- Anon.

  4. #4
    bob Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:19:00 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
    <[email protected]> shouted from the highest rooftop:

    >Officials are working with the company that provides the goods and sets the
    >prices at Florida's about 130 prisons to see if some prices can be lowered,


    Just another monopoly taking advantage of a captive market ...


    --

    una cerveza mas por favor ...

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Wax-up and drop-in of Surfing's Golden Years: <http://www.surfwriter.net>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

  5. #5
    maxine Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    On Apr 26, 3:23*pm, Bobo Bonobo® <CLASS...@BRICK.NET> wrote:
    > On Apr 26, 2:19*pm, "Gregory Morrow" <6u...@ttt9tom.be> wrote:> More liberal bleeding-heart crybabying, lol... :
    >
    > You're such an asshole. *You'd make a good prison guard yourself. *I
    > bet you pulled the wings off of flies as a kid.
    >
    > The reason the prices are being raised is so that some parasite
    > contractor can skim money. *Did you hear about Obama's plans for
    > student loans? *It involves cutting out parasites.
    >
    > --Bryan


    Having grown up in a family business with vending machines, I have to
    take offense. The prices of the goods go up. Haven't you noticed a
    few increases in the prices at your local markets? The costs of
    equipment, employees and their benefits goes up, the cost of gas and
    vehicle maintenance goes up. It sucks for people on the outside who
    are trying to pay for food, rent and gas on low wages, and it sucks
    even more for prisoners who earn a pittance for the work they do in
    the can.

    This is not the place to discuss the rest of the injustices of prison
    and the justice system. But painting the supplier with slime when
    they're trying to make ends meet (and yes, make a profit--that's part
    of doing business) is as low a blow as the previous poster's comments.

    maxine in ri

  6. #6
    George Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
    > On Apr 26, 2:19 pm, "Gregory Morrow" <6u...@ttt9tom.be> wrote:
    >> More liberal bleeding-heart crybabying, lol... :
    >>
    >>

    > You're such an asshole. You'd make a good prison guard yourself. I
    > bet you pulled the wings off of flies as a kid.
    >
    > The reason the prices are being raised is so that some parasite
    > contractor can skim money. Did you hear about Obama's plans for
    > student loans? It involves cutting out parasites.


    So every business is rotten and evil? And you think that the
    contractor's costs didn't go up since the last time pricing was set and
    they are just stuffing their pockets with loads of extra cash?

    Here is a hint. Not every business is rotten and parasitical. If you
    haven't noticed its mostly the megabusinesses that got that way by
    having the power to purchase the right politicians from both the blue
    and red teams. Obama seems to have told you otherwise but there are lots
    of folks that have a moral compass and earn an honest living running
    efficient businesses.

    >
    > --Bryan
    > Visit Bobo Bonobo's Mortuary and Sausage Emporium
    > On the web @ http://MySpace.com/BoboBonobo


  7. #7
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    maxine <[email protected]> wrote:

    > This is not the place to discuss the rest of the injustices of prison
    > and the justice system. But painting the supplier with slime when
    > they're trying to make ends meet (and yes, make a profit--that's part
    > of doing business) is as low a blow as the previous poster's comments.


    My grocery store sells name brand candy bars for 3/$1. Not .89
    cents. And a honey bun is $.49 - not $.99. Sodas are $.25-$.30/can
    when bought in 12-18 packs, not $.89.

    And the Taxpayer doesn't pay the lease on their store and use prison
    labor to stock and sell the items, either.

    -sw

  8. #8
    blake murphy Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:53:47 +1200, bob wrote:

    > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:19:00 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
    > <[email protected]> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >
    >>Officials are working with the company that provides the goods and sets the
    >>prices at Florida's about 130 prisons to see if some prices can be lowered,

    >
    > Just another monopoly taking advantage of a captive market ...


    you'd think with 130 prisons they'd have the clout to negotiate a lower
    price...

    your pal,
    blake

  9. #9
    Becca Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    Sqwertz wrote:
    > maxine <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> This is not the place to discuss the rest of the injustices of prison
    >> and the justice system. But painting the supplier with slime when
    >> they're trying to make ends meet (and yes, make a profit--that's part
    >> of doing business) is as low a blow as the previous poster's comments.
    >>

    >
    > My grocery store sells name brand candy bars for 3/$1. Not .89
    > cents. And a honey bun is $.49 - not $.99. Sodas are $.25-$.30/can
    > when bought in 12-18 packs, not $.89.
    >
    > And the Taxpayer doesn't pay the lease on their store and use prison
    > labor to stock and sell the items, either.
    >
    > -sw
    >



    A few years ago, I read a book that was written about prison systems
    and how they are a money-maker for state governments. Prison became
    incarceration, there was no more rehabilitation of inmates, because if
    every inmate was rehabilitated the prison system would shrink and die.
    Recidivism became a positive instead of a negative.


    The state will put thousands of people on probation, because each
    probationer will pay $50 a month probation for a couple of years, each
    probationer taking about 5-10 minutes of appointment time. The
    probation officer is paid little, while they see 6-8 probationers per
    hour, while the state rakes in the money.


    I am sure there are other books that will say the opposite is true.


    Becca

  10. #10
    phil..c Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    Becca wrote:
    > Sqwertz wrote:
    >> maxine <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> This is not the place to discuss the rest of the injustices of prison
    >>> and the justice system. But painting the supplier with slime when
    >>> they're trying to make ends meet (and yes, make a profit--that's part
    >>> of doing business) is as low a blow as the previous poster's comments.
    >>>

    >>
    >> My grocery store sells name brand candy bars for 3/$1. Not .89
    >> cents. And a honey bun is $.49 - not $.99. Sodas are $.25-$.30/can
    >> when bought in 12-18 packs, not $.89.
    >>
    >> And the Taxpayer doesn't pay the lease on their store and use prison
    >> labor to stock and sell the items, either.
    >> -sw
    >>

    >
    >
    > A few years ago, I read a book that was written about prison systems
    > and how they are a money-maker for state governments. Prison became
    > incarceration, there was no more rehabilitation of inmates, because if
    > every inmate was rehabilitated the prison system would shrink and die.
    > Recidivism became a positive instead of a negative.
    >
    > The state will put thousands of people on probation, because each
    > probationer will pay $50 a month probation for a couple of years, each
    > probationer taking about 5-10 minutes of appointment time. The
    > probation officer is paid little, while they see 6-8 probationers per
    > hour, while the state rakes in the money.
    >
    > I am sure there are other books that will say the opposite is true.
    >
    >
    > Becca

    This is all very riveting . But can you share what YOU think .
    You know the logic make up your own mind

    so what do you think ?

  11. #11
    =?iso-8859-1?B?VEZNrg==?= Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...



    "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in

    > Jill Lopez has two young children and a fiance in prison in Raiford in
    > north
    > Florida who she sends between $20 and $40 a week.


    He's in ****ing prison. **** him. He gets everything he needs to survive
    given to him.
    I've been in jail, so I'm not talking out of my ass.


    > "They're all freaking out," Lopez said in a telephone interview. "You have
    > grown men that are hungry. What's going to happen? There're going to be
    > more
    > fights. People are going to crankier."
    >
    > In some places that has already happened, according to Charles Norman, an
    > inmate serving a life sentence at the Tomoka Correctional Institution in
    > Daytona Beach.


    Whoa! That's hard to believe. Grown men locked in a building for years
    with no sexual outlet other than their bunkmate (or a wonderful device
    fashioned from 2 rubber gloves and warm water) actually get cranky and
    fight? Knock me over with a feather.

    Details on the rubber glove device before anyone asks -
    It helps to get a visual, so lace your fingers together. Now imagine a pair
    of rubber gloves with all the fingers tied together like that.

    Fill each glove with warm water and tie the wrist closed. Then tie the
    wrists together.
    Go have big happy fun time in the shower.
    Wash it off and pass it on if you feel generous.

    Those lucky enough to work in the kitchen generally **** the 5 lb. block of
    butter.

    Don't ask me how I know these things, and don't eat butter in jail.

    TFM®



  12. #12
    =?iso-8859-1?B?VEZNrg==?= Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...



    "maxine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Apr 26, 3:23 pm, Bobo Bonobo® <CLASS...@BRICK.NET> wrote:
    >> On Apr 26, 2:19 pm, "Gregory Morrow" <6u...@ttt9tom.be> wrote:> More
    >> liberal bleeding-heart crybabying, lol... :
    >>
    >> You're such an asshole. You'd make a good prison guard yourself. I
    >> bet you pulled the wings off of flies as a kid.
    >>
    >> The reason the prices are being raised is so that some parasite
    >> contractor can skim money. Did you hear about Obama's plans for
    >> student loans? It involves cutting out parasites.
    >>
    >> --Bryan

    >
    > Having grown up in a family business with vending machines, I have to
    > take offense. The prices of the goods go up. Haven't you noticed a
    > few increases in the prices at your local markets? The costs of
    > equipment, employees and their benefits goes up, the cost of gas and
    > vehicle maintenance goes up. It sucks for people on the outside who
    > are trying to pay for food, rent and gas on low wages, and it sucks
    > even more for prisoners who earn a pittance for the work they do in
    > the can.



    They're in prison because they belong there. **** them and their rights.
    They gave those up when they committed the crime.

    TFM®


  13. #13
    =?iso-8859-1?B?VEZNrg==?= Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...



    "maxine" <[email protected]> wrote

    > This is not the place to discuss the rest of the injustices of prison
    > and the justice system.


    Injustices of prison? They ****ed up, it's supposed to suck in there. It
    should be a deterrent, not a vacation.

    An old black guy said to me in jail, "You just fouled out in the game of
    life. They'll put you back in. Take it easy."

    TFM®


  14. #14
    =?iso-8859-1?B?VEZNrg==?= Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...



    "blake murphy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1f5m28fui82n2$.7p8qp4yrj5mm$.[email protected]. .
    > On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:53:47 +1200, bob wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:19:00 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
    >> <[email protected]> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >>
    >>>Officials are working with the company that provides the goods and sets
    >>>the
    >>>prices at Florida's about 130 prisons to see if some prices can be
    >>>lowered,

    >>
    >> Just another monopoly taking advantage of a captive market ...

    >
    > you'd think with 130 prisons they'd have the clout to negotiate a lower
    > price...



    They surely do, but why should they care?

    On the side, I live a couple miles from one of these correctional
    facilities. I'd always assumed it was just a prison. Then my buddy told me
    it was a nuthouse. I asked him why the sign said correctional institute and
    he told me it was for the criminally insane.
    Whew, that's a lot better than living by a prison.

    TFM®


  15. #15
    Omelet Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    In article <49f5da77$0$8246$[email protected] >,
    TFM® <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > "They're all freaking out," Lopez said in a telephone interview. "You have
    > > grown men that are hungry. What's going to happen? There're going to be
    > > more
    > > fights. People are going to crankier."
    > >
    > > In some places that has already happened, according to Charles Norman, an
    > > inmate serving a life sentence at the Tomoka Correctional Institution in
    > > Daytona Beach.

    >
    > Whoa! That's hard to believe. Grown men locked in a building for years
    > with no sexual outlet other than their bunkmate (or a wonderful device
    > fashioned from 2 rubber gloves and warm water) actually get cranky and
    > fight? Knock me over with a feather.
    >
    > Details on the rubber glove device before anyone asks -
    > It helps to get a visual, so lace your fingers together. Now imagine a pair
    > of rubber gloves with all the fingers tied together like that.
    >
    > Fill each glove with warm water and tie the wrist closed. Then tie the
    > wrists together.
    > Go have big happy fun time in the shower.
    > Wash it off and pass it on if you feel generous.
    >
    > Those lucky enough to work in the kitchen generally **** the 5 lb. block of
    > butter.
    >
    > Don't ask me how I know these things, and don't eat butter in jail.
    >
    > TFM®


    That was TMI, but fascinating. <g>
    --
    Peace! Om

    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
    It's about learning to dance in the rain.
    -- Anon.

  16. #16
    Omelet Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    In article <49f5ddbb$0$8222$[email protected] >,
    TFM® <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "blake murphy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:1f5m28fui82n2$.7p8qp4yrj5mm$.[email protected]. .
    > > On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:53:47 +1200, bob wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:19:00 -0500, "Gregory Morrow"
    > >> <[email protected]> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    > >>
    > >>>Officials are working with the company that provides the goods and sets
    > >>>the
    > >>>prices at Florida's about 130 prisons to see if some prices can be
    > >>>lowered,
    > >>
    > >> Just another monopoly taking advantage of a captive market ...

    > >
    > > you'd think with 130 prisons they'd have the clout to negotiate a lower
    > > price...

    >
    >
    > They surely do, but why should they care?
    >
    > On the side, I live a couple miles from one of these correctional
    > facilities. I'd always assumed it was just a prison. Then my buddy told me
    > it was a nuthouse. I asked him why the sign said correctional institute and
    > he told me it was for the criminally insane.
    > Whew, that's a lot better than living by a prison.
    >
    > TFM®


    Lovely.
    --
    Peace! Om

    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
    It's about learning to dance in the rain.
    -- Anon.

  17. #17
    Chemo the Clown Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    On Apr 27, 9:18*am, TFM® <hillbilly...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
    > "maxine" <weed...@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Apr 26, 3:23 pm, Bobo Bonobo® <CLASS...@BRICK.NET> wrote:
    > >> On Apr 26, 2:19 pm, "Gregory Morrow" <6u...@ttt9tom.be> wrote:> More
    > >> liberal bleeding-heart crybabying, lol... :

    >
    > >> You're such an asshole. You'd make a good prison guard yourself. I
    > >> bet you pulled the wings off of flies as a kid.

    >
    > >> The reason the prices are being raised is so that some parasite
    > >> contractor can skim money. Did you hear about Obama's plans for
    > >> student loans? It involves cutting out parasites.

    >
    > >> --Bryan

    >
    > > Having grown up in a family business with vending machines, I have to
    > > take offense. *The prices of the goods go up. *Haven't you noticed a
    > > few increases in the prices at your local markets? *The costs of
    > > equipment, employees and their benefits goes up, the cost of gas and
    > > vehicle maintenance goes up. *It sucks for people on the outside who
    > > are trying to pay for food, rent and gas on low wages, and it sucks
    > > even more for prisoners who earn a pittance for the work they do in
    > > the can.

    >
    > They're in prison because they belong there. ***** them and their rights.
    > They gave those up when they committed the crime.
    >
    > TFM®- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Well said. They don't need no steekin' "snacks", no TV's, stereo's or
    any other luxury. They committed a crime and now they should pay the
    time. Who cares if they **** each other. Cruel and unusual punishment
    by having them work their ass off for no pay....what about the victims
    who got robbed, beat sensless or killed. For Christ's sake...lock 'em
    up and make them pay for the crime.

  18. #18
    maxine Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    On Apr 26, 7:39*pm, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
    > maxine <weed...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > This is not the place to discuss the rest of the injustices of prison
    > > and the justice system. *But painting the supplier with slime when
    > > they're trying to make ends meet (and yes, make a profit--that's part
    > > of doing business) is as low a blow as the previous poster's comments.

    >
    > My grocery store sells name brand candy bars for 3/$1. *Not .89
    > cents. *And a honey bun is $.49 - not $.99. *Sodas are $.25-$.30/can
    > when bought in 12-18 packs, not $.89.
    >
    > And the Taxpayer doesn't pay the lease on their store and use prison
    > labor to stock and sell the items, either. *
    >
    > -sw


    Yes, but you have a choice of where to go, so the store can use this
    sort of impulse purchase as either a loss leader or low-profit, high
    volume item. I suppose the Prison provisions and contracts division
    could have tried to get lower prices, but this is not a necessity, so
    they I would assume they figure it's up to the prisoners to decide if
    they really need something that's an expensive treat.

    Also, if you're buying that soda at the convenience store or quick-e
    mart, how much do you pay there? We're not talking about the
    prisoners being able to buy a 12-18 pack of soda or a box of
    honeybuns.

    Economics of scale is a lost art, isn't it?

    maxine in ri

  19. #19
    maxine Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...

    On Apr 27, 12:22*pm, TFM® <hillbilly...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
    > "maxine" <weed...@gmail.com> wrote
    >
    > > This is not the place to discuss the rest of the injustices of prison
    > > and the justice system.

    >
    > Injustices of prison? *They ****ed up, it's supposed to suck in there. *It
    > should be a deterrent, not a vacation.
    >
    > An old black guy said to me in jail, "You just fouled out in the game of
    > life. *They'll put you back in. *Take it easy."
    >
    > TFM®


    If you've got the experience, then you've a better right to speak than
    I.
    I did meet a couple of other people who admitted that they did their
    time for crimes they committed. You're rarer than hens' teeth!

    maxine in ri

  20. #20
    =?iso-8859-1?B?VEZNrg==?= Guest

    Default Re: Prison Inmates Upset About Snack Prices...



    "maxine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > On Apr 27, 12:22 pm, TFM® <hillbilly...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
    >> "maxine" <weed...@gmail.com> wrote



    > If you've got the experience, then you've a better right to speak than
    > I.
    > I did meet a couple of other people who admitted that they did their
    > time for crimes they committed. You're rarer than hens' teeth!



    I was never held unjustly. I did the crime, I did the time.

    It seems that everybody is innocent when you talk to them inside. Attitudes
    change when they get out. If they don't, they end up going back.
    I like it out here.

    TFM®


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