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Thread: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2

  1. #1
    Piedmont Guest

    Default Pizza Dough Saga No. 2

    My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,

    I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    happening to my pizza dough,

    1 1/2 cups very warm water
    2 teaspoons yeast
    2 teaspoons sugar
    3 cups bread flour
    1 teaspoon salt

    I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough into
    a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my other
    recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments but 17
    Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour the dough
    was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the mix/kneading cycle.
    Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still sticking to the sides
    of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd expect a dough ball being
    kneaded during the making of a loaf of the bread that I make.

    What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
    machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
    icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight to
    see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm recipe
    with all instructions through out the process, before during and after it
    comes out of the machine?

    Thanks
    Piedmont


  2. #2
    Mr. Bill Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2

    On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:25:12 -0400, "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,


    Food processer necessary...but a tried and true dough recipe from Fine
    Cooking. This is enough for two pans. I usually cut the recipe in
    half...but I have made the full recipe as written and frozen the
    unused half for later.


    @@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

    Pizza Dough/Fine Cooking

    breads, Italian, pasta

    2 1/4 ts yeast
    1 1/2 c warm water; 110F
    18 oz bread flour
    plus more for dusting
    1 1/2 ts salt
    2 ts olive oil

    Dissolve the yeast in the warm water and set aside.

    Meanwhile, put the flour and salt in a food processor fitted with the
    steel
    blade. Process briefly to mix. With the machine running, add the
    water-yeast mixture in a steady stream. Turn the processor off and add
    the
    oil. Pulse a few times to mix in the oil.

    Divide the dough. Scrape the soft doughty out of the processor and
    onto a
    lightly floured surface. With lightly floured hands, quickly knead the
    doughty in a mass incorporating any bits of flour or doughty from the
    processor bowl that wasn't mixed in.

    Cut dough into four equal pieces with a dough scrapper. Roll each
    piece
    into a tight smooth ball, kneading to push out all the air.

    Proceed as usual.

    Extra pieces of doughty will freeze very well. Cover with extra flour
    and
    seal and freeze in a quart zip lock bag for future use.


    ** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.84 **



    The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
    Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures may not
    be consistent with what you know to be true.
    As with any recipe, you may find your personal
    intervention will be necessary. Bon Appétit!


  3. #3
    Janet Bostwick Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2

    Piedmont wrote:
    > My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
    >
    > I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    > happening to my pizza dough,
    >
    > 1 1/2 cups very warm water
    > 2 teaspoons yeast
    > 2 teaspoons sugar
    > 3 cups bread flour
    > 1 teaspoon salt
    >
    > I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the
    > dough into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened
    > with my other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making
    > adjustments but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add
    > the extra flour the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball
    > during the mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball
    > but was still sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at
    > all what you'd expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of
    > a loaf of the bread that I make.

    snip>
    > Thanks
    > Piedmont


    How long did you let it knead before you started adding flour. I don't use
    a bread machine, but rather a Kitchenaid stand mixer. Most of my bread
    dough and pizza dough is soupy/goopy to start. After about 6-8 minutes of
    kneading it begins to pull together. If you touch it quickly at this point,
    the dough is tacky not sticky. I also let the mixture sit for 20 minutes
    before beginning to knead. This allows the flour to absorb all the water --
    the gluten also begins to develop naturally during this time. Many times I
    must use a bench knife to scoup under the dough on the counter to help me
    turn and fold the dough. Maybe you are too impatient. You also might try
    alt.bread.recipes for help and tips. There are good bakers there that like
    to help others.
    Janet



  4. #4
    Giusi Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2

    "Piedmont" ha scritto nel messaggio

    If I didn't add the extra flour the dough was soupy and totally unable to
    form a ball during the mix/kneading cycle.

    I do not use nor have I ever used a bread machine, but I make pizza all the
    time. Your recipe looks a lot like mine which I call Sloppy Dough Pizza.
    It never forms a ball and does not need kneading, either.

    > What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
    > machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
    > icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
    > to > see if any differences happen.


    Put it into the bags right away.. not all in one-- and refrigerate. Leave
    12 hours, it will self-knead and rise a lot, then form the pizzas by
    pressing out with oily fingers. I do mine right onto parchment, use a
    cookie sheet as a peel to slide the paper onto the lowest rack-- oven at
    max. Dont load the dough down with too much stuff.



  5. #5
    cshenk Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2

    "Piedmont" wrote

    > My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
    >
    > I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    > happening to my pizza dough,
    >
    > 1 1/2 cups very warm water
    > 2 teaspoons yeast
    > 2 teaspoons sugar
    > 3 cups bread flour
    > 1 teaspoon salt


    Too much water there. Try 1 cup water, at most 1.2



  6. #6
    Theron Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2


    "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:a9tul.7106$[email protected]..
    > My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
    >
    > I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    > happening to my pizza dough,
    >
    > 1 1/2 cups very warm water
    > 2 teaspoons yeast
    > 2 teaspoons sugar
    > 3 cups bread flour
    > 1 teaspoon salt
    >
    > I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
    > into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
    > other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments but
    > 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour the
    > dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the mix/kneading
    > cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still sticking to
    > the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd expect a dough
    > ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of the bread that I make.
    >
    > What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
    > machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
    > icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
    > to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
    > recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
    > after it comes out of the machine?
    >
    > Thanks
    > Piedmont

    Following is close to what I do.I use a biga or sponge, frequently, though
    you don't have to. I use 1TB olive oil for 3 cups flour and 1.75 tsp Kosher
    salt. The recipe below is even stickier than my 3 cups flour to1.25cups
    water. It does that you must be gentle to get it on the pizza stone. I
    always, after the first rise, divide the ball into two and punch the balls
    slightly to flatten a bit on a floured wooden bread board[2 feet by 3 feet
    of 1/2 inch plywood from your local lumbar yard]. When you're going to make
    your pizza, very gently stretch the dough out to about 12 inches, and then
    grasping the edge around slowly nurse the outer edges to give you a pizza
    round of 14-16 inches, depending on to the degree of thinness you want it.
    Do this on a floured pizza paddle[from your local restaurant supply store,
    much cheaper, and much better than William Sonoma]. Then top with whatever
    you want. For the first several pizzas top gingerly until you are
    comfortable getting the pizza from your paddle to the heated pizza stone.

    Strart by making a simple pizza margharita.
    http://splendidtable.publicradio.org...ead_pizza.html This dough is
    more moist than mine!
    ALWAYS, heat your pizza stone to 500+F for at least 45 minutes before you
    proceed. After the pizza is on the stone, spray water gently to the top half
    of your oven. This crisps the edges. Your pizza should bake in 6-8 minutes.
    I usually am not able to throw my pizza round as they do in pizza parlors,
    thought now and then I do. Do not overknead your dough! Pizza should have a
    crisp airy crust, and should be nice and stiff under the topping. Don't buy
    your first stone at Macy's. As a trial Walmart, ours at least, had a thin
    pizza stone. It works on my grill for outdoor pizza, though that's a whole
    new effort. Get a hefty stone, over 1/2 inches when you get into this.

    I apologize for posting this twice. The best of luck to you. :If you tried
    four times you'll make it fine.

    Ed



  7. #7
    Paul M. Cook Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2


    "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:a9tul.7106$[email protected]..
    > My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
    >
    > I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    > happening to my pizza dough,
    >
    > 1 1/2 cups very warm water
    > 2 teaspoons yeast
    > 2 teaspoons sugar
    > 3 cups bread flour
    > 1 teaspoon salt
    >
    > I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
    > into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
    > other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments but
    > 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd?


    Not at all. You use as much as you need. That varies from batch to batch.
    Even the weather makes a difference.

    If I didn't add the extra flour the dough
    > was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the mix/kneading cycle.
    > Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still sticking to the sides
    > of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd expect a dough ball being
    > kneaded during the making of a loaf of the bread that I make.


    You needed more flour.

    > What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
    > machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
    > icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
    > to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
    > recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
    > after it comes out of the machine?


    Try making it from scratch not in the machine.

    use filtered warm water - no chlorine
    use high protein bread flour
    allow for a long slow rise in the fridge
    use extra virgin olive oil for aroma
    knead for at least 10 minutes - stop if you get tired

    You may want to make a 2 pound recipe and freeze half of it or keep it in
    the fridge for 5 days.

    My recipe is 2 cups tepid water
    2 packages yeast (no need to proof)
    1 teaspoon kosher salt
    1 tablespoon olive oil

    mix it all up

    at least 5-6 cups flour, possibly more - it takes what it takes
    knead until you get a smooth, silky dough that is springy

    let rise overnight in the fridge. The slower the better.

    Paul



  8. #8
    Piedmont Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2


    "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:a9tul.7106$[email protected]..
    > My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
    >
    > I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    > happening to my pizza dough,
    >
    > 1 1/2 cups very warm water
    > 2 teaspoons yeast
    > 2 teaspoons sugar
    > 3 cups bread flour
    > 1 teaspoon salt
    >
    > I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
    > into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
    > other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments but
    > 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour the
    > dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the mix/kneading
    > cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still sticking to
    > the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd expect a dough
    > ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of the bread that I make.
    >
    > What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
    > machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
    > icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
    > to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
    > recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
    > after it comes out of the machine?
    >
    > Thanks
    > Piedmont


    The dough that I made this morning and then placed in the refrigerator, I
    used it tonight, my observation was the extra flour added during kneading
    was much needed as the dough was touchable but still slightly sticky, I
    floured it in order to spread it out. It was weird as the dough started to
    go rubbery for a second then imediately relaxed and went way too big and
    round. The dough was indeed light in the middle and crunchy on the bottom
    but a tad too thin for my taste but we could pick it up to eat. Cooked at
    480 degrees on a pizza stone, I don't have a paddle so I spread the dough
    out on heavy duty aluminum foil and slide it onto and off the hot stone
    (haven't burned myself yet!) I'm onto to something good here, the original
    recipe called for 2.2 cup flour and .5 cup semolina flour, can't find
    semolina yet but as I understand semolina is cream of wheat but I don't know
    if it should be fine like flour or coarser just like cream of wheats.


  9. #9
    Janet Bostwick Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2


    "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:rmDul.68932$[email protected]..
    >
    > "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:a9tul.7106$[email protected]..
    >> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
    >>
    >> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    >> happening to my pizza dough,
    >>
    >> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
    >> 2 teaspoons yeast
    >> 2 teaspoons sugar
    >> 3 cups bread flour
    >> 1 teaspoon salt
    >>
    >> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
    >> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
    >> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments
    >> but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour
    >> the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the
    >> mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still
    >> sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd
    >> expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of the
    >> bread that I make.
    >>
    >> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
    >> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
    >> icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
    >> to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
    >> recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
    >> after it comes out of the machine?
    >>
    >> Thanks
    >> Piedmont

    >
    > The dough that I made this morning and then placed in the refrigerator, I
    > used it tonight, my observation was the extra flour added during kneading
    > was much needed as the dough was touchable but still slightly sticky, I
    > floured it in order to spread it out. It was weird as the dough started to
    > go rubbery for a second then imediately relaxed and went way too big and
    > round. The dough was indeed light in the middle and crunchy on the bottom
    > but a tad too thin for my taste but we could pick it up to eat. Cooked at
    > 480 degrees on a pizza stone, I don't have a paddle so I spread the dough
    > out on heavy duty aluminum foil and slide it onto and off the hot stone
    > (haven't burned myself yet!) I'm onto to something good here, the original
    > recipe called for 2.2 cup flour and .5 cup semolina flour, can't find
    > semolina yet but as I understand semolina is cream of wheat but I don't
    > know if it should be fine like flour or coarser just like cream of wheats.

    Semolina is not Cream of Wheat. It is a higher-protein specialty wheat
    flour used for making pasta. Many bread recipes call for it also. What
    kind of flour does your recipe call for? You just say 2.2 cups of flour.
    All purpose flour absorbs a whole lot less water than bread flour. The
    higher the protein content of the flour, the more water the flour will
    absorb. Bread flour is higher protein than all purpose flour. If you are
    using all purpose flour when your recipe calls for bread flour, that may be
    why you have very wet dough. You should be able to find semolina at a
    health food store or even possibly in the bulk food area of a supermarket.
    Semolina is just slightly sandier than regular flour and the color is
    yellowish. It is a heavier feeling flour, not fluffy like all purpose or
    bread flour. I'd recommend you try to find the right ingredients for your
    particular recipe or find a different recipe. It will make all the
    difference in handling for you. Just adding more all purpose flour to
    absorb the water distorts the final product.

    Janet



  10. #10
    Piedmont, S.C. Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2

    Janet Bostwick wrote:
    > "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:rmDul.68932$[email protected]..
    >> "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:a9tul.7106$[email protected]..
    >>> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
    >>>
    >>> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    >>> happening to my pizza dough,
    >>>
    >>> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
    >>> 2 teaspoons yeast
    >>> 2 teaspoons sugar
    >>> 3 cups bread flour
    >>> 1 teaspoon salt
    >>>
    >>> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
    >>> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
    >>> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments
    >>> but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour
    >>> the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the
    >>> mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was still
    >>> sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what you'd
    >>> expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of the
    >>> bread that I make.
    >>>
    >>> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
    >>> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into the
    >>> icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use tonight
    >>> to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or a firm
    >>> recipe with all instructions through out the process, before during and
    >>> after it comes out of the machine?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks
    >>> Piedmont

    >> The dough that I made this morning and then placed in the refrigerator, I
    >> used it tonight, my observation was the extra flour added during kneading
    >> was much needed as the dough was touchable but still slightly sticky, I
    >> floured it in order to spread it out. It was weird as the dough started to
    >> go rubbery for a second then imediately relaxed and went way too big and
    >> round. The dough was indeed light in the middle and crunchy on the bottom
    >> but a tad too thin for my taste but we could pick it up to eat. Cooked at
    >> 480 degrees on a pizza stone, I don't have a paddle so I spread the dough
    >> out on heavy duty aluminum foil and slide it onto and off the hot stone
    >> (haven't burned myself yet!) I'm onto to something good here, the original
    >> recipe called for 2.2 cup flour and .5 cup semolina flour, can't find
    >> semolina yet but as I understand semolina is cream of wheat but I don't
    >> know if it should be fine like flour or coarser just like cream of wheats.


    > Semolina is not Cream of Wheat. It is a higher-protein specialty wheat
    > flour used for making pasta. Many bread recipes call for it also. What
    > kind of flour does your recipe call for? You just say 2.2 cups of flour.
    > All purpose flour absorbs a whole lot less water than bread flour. The
    > higher the protein content of the flour, the more water the flour will
    > absorb. Bread flour is higher protein than all purpose flour. If you are
    > using all purpose flour when your recipe calls for bread flour, that may be
    > why you have very wet dough. You should be able to find semolina at a
    > health food store or even possibly in the bulk food area of a supermarket.
    > Semolina is just slightly sandier than regular flour and the color is
    > yellowish. It is a heavier feeling flour, not fluffy like all purpose or
    > bread flour. I'd recommend you try to find the right ingredients for your
    > particular recipe or find a different recipe. It will make all the
    > difference in handling for you. Just adding more all purpose flour to
    > absorb the water distorts the final product.
    >
    > Janet
    >
    >


    Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia that I got my Cream of Wheats info
    from, Also, the original recipe called for 2.5 cups of bread flour plus
    ..5 cup of semolina flour.
    (http://www.fabulousfoods.com/recipes/article/46/28295) Is semolina made
    from hard or soft wheat? Plus, you my be onto something as I used all
    purpose flour instead of bread flour. Next time I will use the bread
    flour and find the semolina somewhere.

    "There are two main types of semolina sold on the general market. Durum
    semolina, made from hard wheat, and soft wheat semolina, also known as
    farina or by the trade name Cream of Wheat, used as a hot breakfast
    cereal and for desserts such as semolina milk pudding. In North India,
    semolina is known as Suji; in South India, Rava or Ravey. In Turkey,
    Semolina is known as I.rmik,and Sameed in Arabic.
    Semolina made from durum wheat or other hard wheats (that are easier to
    grow than durum) is yellow in color. It is usually prepared with the
    main dish, either boiled with water into a pasty substance, e.g. as
    gnocchi (in Italy), or as the basis for dried products such as couscous
    (North Africa), and bulgur (Turkey and the Levant). Couscous is made by
    mixing roughly 2 parts semolina with 1 part durum flour. [2]
    Semolina from softer types of wheats is almost white in color. In the
    United States it has come to be known by the trade name Cream of Wheat.
    In Germany, it is known as wiktionary:Grieß and is mixed with egg to
    make Grießknödel which can be added to soup. The particles are fairly
    coarse, between 0.25 and 0.75 millimetres in diameter. When boiled, it
    turns into a soft, mushy porridge. This semolina is popular in North
    Western Europe and North America as a dessert, boiled with milk, and
    sweetened called semolina pudding. It is often flavored with vanilla and
    served with jam. In Sweden and Russia, it is eaten as breakfast
    porridge, sometimes mixed with raisins and served with milk. In Swedish
    ít is known as mannagrynsgröt. In the middle east, it is used to make
    desserts called Harisa or so called Basbosa or Nammora."

  11. #11
    Janet Bostwick Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2


    "Piedmont, S.C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1OSul.18188$[email protected]..
    > Janet Bostwick wrote:
    >> "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:rmDul.68932$[email protected]..
    >>> "Piedmont" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:a9tul.7106$[email protected]..
    >>>> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
    >>>>
    >>>> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    >>>> happening to my pizza dough,
    >>>>
    >>>> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
    >>>> 2 teaspoons yeast
    >>>> 2 teaspoons sugar
    >>>> 3 cups bread flour
    >>>> 1 teaspoon salt
    >>>>
    >>>> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
    >>>> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
    >>>> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments
    >>>> but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour
    >>>> the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the
    >>>> mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was
    >>>> still sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what
    >>>> you'd expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of
    >>>> the bread that I make.
    >>>>
    >>>> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
    >>>> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into
    >>>> the icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use
    >>>> tonight to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or
    >>>> a firm recipe with all instructions through out the process, before
    >>>> during and after it comes out of the machine?
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks
    >>>> Piedmont
    >>> The dough that I made this morning and then placed in the refrigerator,
    >>> I used it tonight, my observation was the extra flour added during
    >>> kneading was much needed as the dough was touchable but still slightly
    >>> sticky, I floured it in order to spread it out. It was weird as the
    >>> dough started to go rubbery for a second then imediately relaxed and
    >>> went way too big and round. The dough was indeed light in the middle and
    >>> crunchy on the bottom but a tad too thin for my taste but we could pick
    >>> it up to eat. Cooked at 480 degrees on a pizza stone, I don't have a
    >>> paddle so I spread the dough out on heavy duty aluminum foil and slide
    >>> it onto and off the hot stone (haven't burned myself yet!) I'm onto to
    >>> something good here, the original recipe called for 2.2 cup flour and .5
    >>> cup semolina flour, can't find semolina yet but as I understand semolina
    >>> is cream of wheat but I don't know if it should be fine like flour or
    >>> coarser just like cream of wheats.

    >
    >> Semolina is not Cream of Wheat. It is a higher-protein specialty wheat
    >> flour used for making pasta. Many bread recipes call for it also. What
    >> kind of flour does your recipe call for? You just say 2.2 cups of flour.
    >> All purpose flour absorbs a whole lot less water than bread flour. The
    >> higher the protein content of the flour, the more water the flour will
    >> absorb. Bread flour is higher protein than all purpose flour. If you
    >> are using all purpose flour when your recipe calls for bread flour, that
    >> may be why you have very wet dough. You should be able to find semolina
    >> at a health food store or even possibly in the bulk food area of a
    >> supermarket. Semolina is just slightly sandier than regular flour and the
    >> color is yellowish. It is a heavier feeling flour, not fluffy like all
    >> purpose or bread flour. I'd recommend you try to find the right
    >> ingredients for your particular recipe or find a different recipe. It
    >> will make all the difference in handling for you. Just adding more all
    >> purpose flour to absorb the water distorts the final product.
    >>
    >> Janet

    >
    > Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia that I got my Cream of Wheats info from,
    > Also, the original recipe called for 2.5 cups of bread flour plus .5 cup
    > of semolina flour. (http://www.fabulousfoods.com/recipes/article/46/28295)
    > Is semolina made from hard or soft wheat? Plus, you my be onto something
    > as I used all purpose flour instead of bread flour. Next time I will use
    > the bread flour and find the semolina somewhere.
    >
    > "There are two main types of semolina sold on the general market. Durum
    > semolina, made from hard wheat, and soft wheat semolina, also known as
    > farina or by the trade name Cream of Wheat, used as a hot breakfast cereal
    > and for desserts such as semolina milk pudding. In North India, semolina
    > is known as Suji; in South India, Rava or Ravey. In Turkey, Semolina is
    > known as I.rmik,and Sameed in Arabic.
    > Semolina made from durum wheat or other hard wheats (that are easier to
    > grow than durum) is yellow in color. It is usually prepared with the main
    > dish, either boiled with water into a pasty substance, e.g. as gnocchi (in
    > Italy), or as the basis for dried products such as couscous (North
    > Africa), and bulgur (Turkey and the Levant). Couscous is made by mixing
    > roughly 2 parts semolina with 1 part durum flour. [2]
    > Semolina from softer types of wheats is almost white in color. In the
    > United States it has come to be known by the trade name Cream of Wheat. In
    > Germany, it is known as wiktionary:Grieß and is mixed with egg to make
    > Grießknödel which can be added to soup. The particles are fairly coarse,
    > between 0.25 and 0.75 millimetres in diameter. When boiled, it turns into
    > a soft, mushy porridge. This semolina is popular in North Western Europe
    > and North America as a dessert, boiled with milk, and sweetened called
    > semolina pudding. It is often flavored with vanilla and served with jam.
    > In Sweden and Russia, it is eaten as breakfast porridge, sometimes mixed
    > with raisins and served with milk. In Swedish ít is known as
    > mannagrynsgröt. In the middle east, it is used to make desserts called
    > Harisa or so called Basbosa or Nammora."


    O.k., I see where Wikipedia calls it Cream of Wheat. Cream of Wheat as I
    recall it is tiny 'pellets' of white grain. The semolina in your recipe is
    nothing like that. It is quite fine and slightly sandy feeling. Let me
    clarify that in my market area (Idaho) there is semolina (yellow and sandy)
    that I use for my Italian breads and duram (tannish) that I have not used.
    Both are hard wheat products. As to the water absorption, it is an
    acknowledged fact. But I am a skeptic and needed to prove it to myself. So
    more than 10 years ago, I took an equal weight of flour to an equal weight
    of water for every flour that I had in the house at that time. Some were
    bread flour . . .organic, or house brand and several name brands . . .some
    were all purpose flour ( same mix of types) and a cake flour(a soft flour).
    In all maybe 10-12 mixtures. The results were that I had everything from a
    runny, soupy mix to a stiff dough -- progressing upward from the cake flour
    to the bread flour. The interesting part was that there were noticeable
    differences within the categories of all purpose and bread flour, determined
    by their protein content. I now know that I must expect to make initial
    adjustments to any bread recipe where I change the flour brand or type.
    Protein content from all purpose flour upward to bread flour ranges from
    somewhere in the low 10 percent to well over 14 percent for the higher
    quality bread flour. If you look at the King Arthur web site, they give the
    protein content of all of the flour that they carry. It may give you some
    insight. The other important thing about mixing flour and water is that the
    flour does not absorb all the water at once during mixing. To avoid
    over-flouring, make a rough mix of the flour and water, cover the bowl with
    plastic wrap and walk away for 20 minutes. Not only will the flour have
    absorbed more of the liquid and become fully hydrated, chemical development
    of the gluten has begun during the 20 minutes. This means that any kneading
    (mechanical gluten development) you do from this point on will be much
    easier and probably less necessity for added flour.
    HTH
    Janet



  12. #12
    Piedmont Guest

    Default Re: Pizza Dough Saga No. 2


    "Janet Bostwick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected] m...
    > Piedmont wrote:
    >> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
    >>
    >> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
    >> happening to my pizza dough,
    >>
    >> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
    >> 2 teaspoons yeast
    >> 2 teaspoons sugar
    >> 3 cups bread flour
    >> 1 teaspoon salt
    >>
    >> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the
    >> dough into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened
    >> with my other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making
    >> adjustments but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add
    >> the extra flour the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball
    >> during the mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball
    >> but was still sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at
    >> all what you'd expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of
    >> a loaf of the bread that I make.

    > snip>
    >> Thanks
    >> Piedmont

    >
    > How long did you let it knead before you started adding flour. I don't
    > use a bread machine, but rather a Kitchenaid stand mixer. Most of my
    > bread dough and pizza dough is soupy/goopy to start. After about 6-8
    > minutes of kneading it begins to pull together. If you touch it quickly
    > at this point, the dough is tacky not sticky. I also let the mixture sit
    > for 20 minutes before beginning to knead. This allows the flour to absorb
    > all the water -- the gluten also begins to develop naturally during this
    > time. Many times I must use a bench knife to scoup under the dough on the
    > counter to help me turn and fold the dough. Maybe you are too impatient.
    > You also might try alt.bread.recipes for help and tips. There are good
    > bakers there that like to help others.
    > Janet
    >

    I think your correct about the pizza dough being soupy. I did find and buy
    the semolina flour the recipe I'm working with called for, plus I used All
    Purpose flour instead of the called for bread flour. Friday is pizza night
    so I'll suck it up and follow the recipe verbatum with bread flour and
    semolina. I'll try the suggestion you made about letting it sit for 20
    minutes before kneading, sounds logical. I did a few more Google searches
    and I see that a Brooklyn cooked dough is full of large air holes, my
    financee grew up in Brooklyn and she confirms that.

    Thanks!
    Piedmont


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