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Thread: ping: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

  1. #1
    Jean B. Guest

    Default ping: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    Okay, so I found and bought Three Crabs Fish Sauce and only looked
    at the ingredients when I got home. They include fructose and
    hydrolysed [sic] vegetable protein. I am wondering whether there
    are fakes on the market like there were (or are) fakes of Pearl
    River soy sauce. The fish sauce that I got is Việt Hu'o'ng. (I
    hope the "e" shows with its diacritical marks. I assume this is
    the brand.)

    BTW, I got this to try Alford and Duguid's cellophane noodle with
    egg recipe. I figured I should use a sauce-quality fish sauce as
    vs. a cooking-quality one. I ended up using yet another brand
    that I saw at WF--very expensive, but it sounded like it was very
    high quality. At least it wasn't as nasty as Tiparos brand would
    have been in such a context.

    Basically, you marinate bean thread in lime juice and fish sauce
    with... they said red pepper flakes, but I used sambal oelek.
    (Whenever I see red pepper flakes in an Asian context, I am
    reminded of archaic recipes for Chinese food.) Then you sauté
    some shallot and scallion, add whisked eggs, seasoned with s + p.
    Let them firm up some ere adding the bean thread and stir-frying
    to combine everything and finish cooking the eggs. Coriander as
    garnish. The result was somewhat bland but worth fiddling with, I
    think.
    --
    Jean B.

  2. #2
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: ping: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 23:37:46 -0400, Jean B. wrote:

    > Okay, so I found and bought Three Crabs Fish Sauce and only looked
    > at the ingredients when I got home. They include fructose and
    > hydrolysed [sic] vegetable protein. I am wondering whether there
    > are fakes on the market like there were (or are) fakes of Pearl
    > River soy sauce. The fish sauce that I got is Việt Hu'o'ng. (I
    > hope the "e" shows with its diacritical marks. I assume this is
    > the brand.)


    That's the right stuff. It's been criticized by some for having added
    sugar and MSG but <shrug> most people don't care. It should be
    imported by the some generic sounding importer "American General
    Imports, Inc" or something as equally generic sounding. There are a
    lot of imitators, but nobody has copied the name/label exactly.

    The most popular upscale Vietnamese restaurant in the U.S. recommends
    it (don't just take my word for it ;-)

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...VQ1.DTL&ao=all

    Not that somebody there uses Tiparos. Pbbbt! Note that there are
    several different kinds of Tiparos. I have dark ones and light ones,
    and worst of all, Tiparos in plastic bottles (evil) which are the most
    common.

    > BTW, I got this to try Alford and Duguid's cellophane noodle with
    > egg recipe. I figured I should use a sauce-quality fish sauce as
    > vs. a cooking-quality one. I ended up using yet another brand
    > that I saw at WF--very expensive, but it sounded like it was very
    > high quality. At least it wasn't as nasty as Tiparos brand would
    > have been in such a context.
    >
    > Basically, you marinate bean thread in lime juice and fish sauce
    > with... they said red pepper flakes, but I used sambal oelek.
    > (Whenever I see red pepper flakes in an Asian context, I am
    > reminded of archaic recipes for Chinese food.) Then you sauté
    > some shallot and scallion, add whisked eggs, seasoned with s + p.
    > Let them firm up some ere adding the bean thread and stir-frying
    > to combine everything and finish cooking the eggs. Coriander as
    > garnish. The result was somewhat bland but worth fiddling with, I
    > think.


    http://nycsliceofrice.blogspot.com/2...e-noodles.html

    I have everythign to make that, maybe I'll try it this week.

    -sw

  3. #3
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    Jean B. <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Okay, so I found and bought Three Crabs Fish Sauce and only looked
    > at the ingredients when I got home. They include fructose and
    > hydrolysed [sic] vegetable protein. I am wondering whether there
    > are fakes on the market like there were (or are) fakes of Pearl
    > River soy sauce. The fish sauce that I got is Vi?t Hu'o'ng. (I
    > hope the "e" shows with its diacritical marks. I assume this is
    > the brand.)
    >
    > BTW, I got this to try Alford and Duguid's cellophane noodle with
    > egg recipe. I figured I should use a sauce-quality fish sauce as
    > vs. a cooking-quality one. I ended up using yet another brand
    > that I saw at WF--very expensive, but it sounded like it was very
    > high quality. At least it wasn't as nasty as Tiparos brand would
    > have been in such a context.
    >
    > Basically, you marinate bean thread in lime juice and fish sauce
    > with... they said red pepper flakes, but I used sambal oelek.
    > (Whenever I see red pepper flakes in an Asian context, I am
    > reminded of archaic recipes for Chinese food.) Then you saut
    > some shallot and scallion, add whisked eggs, seasoned with s + p.
    > Let them firm up some ere adding the bean thread and stir-frying
    > to combine everything and finish cooking the eggs. Coriander as
    > garnish. The result was somewhat bland but worth fiddling with, I
    > think.


    Who are the Three Crabs? Are they the Pep Boys of Asian food? Just askin'...

    Seriously, I buy Pearl River Bridge soy sauce. I didn't realize there was
    some counterfeit product out there. I have a brand new unopened 1.80 L
    bottle. How can I tell if it is fake?

    MartyB



  4. #4
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    On Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:34:34 -0500, Nunya Bidnits wrote:

    > Seriously, I buy Pearl River Bridge soy sauce. I didn't realize there was
    > some counterfeit product out there. I have a brand new unopened 1.80 L
    > bottle. How can I tell if it is fake?


    1.8 liters = 61 ounces (or 63 Imperial). Those are some odd
    measurements. Seems pretty suspicious to me! I'd call the CIA or
    FBI!

    But if it's taates like Head & Shoulders, its probably real!

    -sw

  5. #5
    pavane Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    Sqwertz wrote:
    > On Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:34:34 -0500, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >
    >> Seriously, I buy Pearl River Bridge soy sauce. I didn't realize
    >> there was some counterfeit product out there. I have a brand new
    >> unopened 1.80 L bottle. How can I tell if it is fake?

    >
    > 1.8 liters = 61 ounces (or 63 Imperial). Those are some odd
    > measurements. Seems pretty suspicious to me! I'd call the CIA or
    > FBI!
    >
    > But if it's taates like Head & Shoulders, its probably real!


    You might set a small dish of it out in your yard.
    If it attracts neighborhood cats, it is authentic.
    Cats are quite discerning.

    pavane



  6. #6
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    On Thu, 5 Apr 2012 11:08:36 -0400, pavane wrote:

    > Sqwertz wrote:
    >> On Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:34:34 -0500, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >>
    >>> Seriously, I buy Pearl River Bridge soy sauce. I didn't realize
    >>> there was some counterfeit product out there. I have a brand new
    >>> unopened 1.80 L bottle. How can I tell if it is fake?

    >>
    >> 1.8 liters = 61 ounces (or 63 Imperial). Those are some odd
    >> measurements. Seems pretty suspicious to me! I'd call the CIA or
    >> FBI!
    >>
    >> But if it's taates like Head & Shoulders, its probably real!

    >
    > You might set a small dish of it out in your yard.
    > If it attracts neighborhood cats, it is authentic.
    > Cats are quite discerning.


    All cats or only the pure-bred Siamese cats?

    -sw

  7. #7
    pavane Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    Sqwertz wrote:
    > On Thu, 5 Apr 2012 11:08:36 -0400, pavane wrote:
    >
    >> Sqwertz wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:34:34 -0500, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Seriously, I buy Pearl River Bridge soy sauce. I didn't realize
    >>>> there was some counterfeit product out there. I have a brand new
    >>>> unopened 1.80 L bottle. How can I tell if it is fake?
    >>>
    >>> 1.8 liters = 61 ounces (or 63 Imperial). Those are some odd
    >>> measurements. Seems pretty suspicious to me! I'd call the CIA or
    >>> FBI!
    >>>
    >>> But if it's taates like Head & Shoulders, its probably real!

    >>
    >> You might set a small dish of it out in your yard.
    >> If it attracts neighborhood cats, it is authentic.
    >> Cats are quite discerning.

    >
    > All cats or only the pure-bred Siamese cats?


    Heh heh. I imagine most from that area; Siamese,
    Burmese, Persian... Not my favorite, Maine Coon.
    They are persnickety and prefer mouse or mouse-
    derived foods.



  8. #8
    Paul M. Cook Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce


    "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Okay, so I found and bought Three Crabs Fish Sauce and only looked at the
    > ingredients when I got home. They include fructose and hydrolysed [sic]
    > vegetable protein. I am wondering whether there are fakes on the market
    > like there were (or are) fakes of Pearl River soy sauce. The fish sauce
    > that I got is Vi?t Hu'o'ng. (I hope the "e" shows with its diacritical
    > marks. I assume this is the brand.)



    Yes, and it is awesome fish sauce. I keep a bottle on hand always. I
    discovered it years ago when I was mastering Pad Thai. But if you want the
    best of the best, Tra Chang Gold Label beats them all hands down. I buy
    from Import Food (.com).

    Paul



  9. #9
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: ping: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    Sqwertz wrote:
    > On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 23:37:46 -0400, Jean B. wrote:
    >
    >> Okay, so I found and bought Three Crabs Fish Sauce and only looked
    >> at the ingredients when I got home. They include fructose and
    >> hydrolysed [sic] vegetable protein. I am wondering whether there
    >> are fakes on the market like there were (or are) fakes of Pearl
    >> River soy sauce. The fish sauce that I got is Việt Hu'o'ng. (I
    >> hope the "e" shows with its diacritical marks. I assume this is
    >> the brand.)

    >
    > That's the right stuff. It's been criticized by some for having added
    > sugar and MSG but <shrug> most people don't care. It should be
    > imported by the some generic sounding importer "American General
    > Imports, Inc" or something as equally generic sounding. There are a
    > lot of imitators, but nobody has copied the name/label exactly.
    >
    > The most popular upscale Vietnamese restaurant in the U.S. recommends
    > it (don't just take my word for it ;-)
    >
    > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...VQ1.DTL&ao=all


    > Not that somebody there uses Tiparos. Pbbbt! Note that there are
    > several different kinds of Tiparos. I have dark ones and light ones,
    > and worst of all, Tiparos in plastic bottles (evil) which are the most
    > common.


    Thanks. I see all brands that I have recommended--or shall I say
    all brands I had ere I got the one I recently noticed. It is Red
    Boat Fish Sauce. I see they have a site:

    http://www.redboatfishsauce.com/

    And there are some recipes there, which I will look at in a moment.

    BTW, I haven't seen Tiparos in a glass bottle for many years. I
    guess I'd better keep an eye out for that.
    >
    >> BTW, I got this to try Alford and Duguid's cellophane noodle with
    >> egg recipe. I figured I should use a sauce-quality fish sauce as
    >> vs. a cooking-quality one. I ended up using yet another brand
    >> that I saw at WF--very expensive, but it sounded like it was very
    >> high quality. At least it wasn't as nasty as Tiparos brand would
    >> have been in such a context.
    >>
    >> Basically, you marinate bean thread in lime juice and fish sauce
    >> with... they said red pepper flakes, but I used sambal oelek.
    >> (Whenever I see red pepper flakes in an Asian context, I am
    >> reminded of archaic recipes for Chinese food.) Then you sauté
    >> some shallot and scallion, add whisked eggs, seasoned with s + p.
    >> Let them firm up some ere adding the bean thread and stir-frying
    >> to combine everything and finish cooking the eggs. Coriander as
    >> garnish. The result was somewhat bland but worth fiddling with, I
    >> think.

    >
    > http://nycsliceofrice.blogspot.com/2...e-noodles.html
    >
    > I have everythign to make that, maybe I'll try it this week.
    >
    > -sw


    I'd jack up the marinade. BTW, thanks for the reminder about that
    blog. I found it within the last year or so and intended to keep
    an eye on it. I like the way that woman cooks!!!

    --
    Jean B.

  10. #10
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    > Jean B. <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Okay, so I found and bought Three Crabs Fish Sauce and only looked
    >> at the ingredients when I got home. They include fructose and
    >> hydrolysed [sic] vegetable protein. I am wondering whether there
    >> are fakes on the market like there were (or are) fakes of Pearl
    >> River soy sauce. The fish sauce that I got is Vi?t Hu'o'ng. (I
    >> hope the "e" shows with its diacritical marks. I assume this is
    >> the brand.)
    >>
    >> BTW, I got this to try Alford and Duguid's cellophane noodle with
    >> egg recipe. I figured I should use a sauce-quality fish sauce as
    >> vs. a cooking-quality one. I ended up using yet another brand
    >> that I saw at WF--very expensive, but it sounded like it was very
    >> high quality. At least it wasn't as nasty as Tiparos brand would
    >> have been in such a context.
    >>
    >> Basically, you marinate bean thread in lime juice and fish sauce
    >> with... they said red pepper flakes, but I used sambal oelek.
    >> (Whenever I see red pepper flakes in an Asian context, I am
    >> reminded of archaic recipes for Chinese food.) Then you saut
    >> some shallot and scallion, add whisked eggs, seasoned with s + p.
    >> Let them firm up some ere adding the bean thread and stir-frying
    >> to combine everything and finish cooking the eggs. Coriander as
    >> garnish. The result was somewhat bland but worth fiddling with, I
    >> think.

    >
    > Who are the Three Crabs? Are they the Pep Boys of Asian food? Just askin'...
    >
    > Seriously, I buy Pearl River Bridge soy sauce. I didn't realize there was
    > some counterfeit product out there. I have a brand new unopened 1.80 L
    > bottle. How can I tell if it is fake?
    >
    > MartyB
    >
    >

    This was a long time ago. I can't say I ever noticed any that was
    fake (there was some slight difference in the label... I am
    blanking on the word I want to use), and by now have forgotten.

    --
    Jean B.

  11. #11
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    Paul M. Cook wrote:
    > "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]..
    >> Okay, so I found and bought Three Crabs Fish Sauce and only looked at the
    >> ingredients when I got home. They include fructose and hydrolysed [sic]
    >> vegetable protein. I am wondering whether there are fakes on the market
    >> like there were (or are) fakes of Pearl River soy sauce. The fish sauce
    >> that I got is Vi?t Hu'o'ng. (I hope the "e" shows with its diacritical
    >> marks. I assume this is the brand.)

    >
    >
    > Yes, and it is awesome fish sauce. I keep a bottle on hand always. I
    > discovered it years ago when I was mastering Pad Thai. But if you want the
    > best of the best, Tra Chang Gold Label beats them all hands down. I buy
    > from Import Food (.com).
    >
    > Paul
    >
    >

    Thanks. I see I need to accrue yet MORE fish sauce.

    --
    Jean B.

  12. #12
    BubbaBob Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    3 Crabs is not very good Nuoc Mam. Unfortunately, almost all Nuoc Mam in
    the US is just relabeled Nam Pla from Thailand. You have to search really
    hard to find real Vietnamese Nuoc Mam, which is about 1% of what's on the
    market here. It should never have sugar or any kind of texturized protien
    added.

  13. #13
    Jim Elbrecht Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    BubbaBob <rnorton47@_remove_this_comcast.net> wrote:

    >3 Crabs is not very good Nuoc Mam.


    It is easy to be a critic. Harder to give a recommendation. I've
    got a 1/2 bottle of 3-Crab left. Time to start shopping for another
    so I can compare. Make a suggestion and I'll see if it tickles my
    taste buds better than the 3-Crab. [which, is the best I've found so
    far]

    Thanks,
    Jim

  14. #14
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    BubbaBob wrote:
    > 3 Crabs is not very good Nuoc Mam. Unfortunately, almost all Nuoc Mam in
    > the US is just relabeled Nam Pla from Thailand. You have to search really
    > hard to find real Vietnamese Nuoc Mam, which is about 1% of what's on the
    > market here. It should never have sugar or any kind of texturized protien
    > added.


    The ultra-expensive fish sauce I just got contains neither.

    Back to fish sauce in general... I can't find Tiparos in glass.
    I need to get to Chinatown and to another pan-Asian store to look.

    --
    Jean B.

  15. #15
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    Jim Elbrecht wrote:
    > BubbaBob <rnorton47@_remove_this_comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    >> 3 Crabs is not very good Nuoc Mam.

    >
    > It is easy to be a critic. Harder to give a recommendation. I've
    > got a 1/2 bottle of 3-Crab left. Time to start shopping for another
    > so I can compare. Make a suggestion and I'll see if it tickles my
    > taste buds better than the 3-Crab. [which, is the best I've found so
    > far]
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Jim


    Just a moment. I can at least look on the bottle of Golden Boy,
    which I have seen recommended but I haven't opened.

    Okay. I have:

    Tiparos, already expounded upon by SW (in plastic, so shoot me)

    3 Crabs (also described by SW)

    Red Boat, which contains black anchovy and salt and emanates from
    Vietnam (the aforementioned expensive stuff, which is probably not
    available many places)

    Tra Chang Brand. which contains anchovy extract, salt and
    water--and says it was manufactured in Rayong, Thailand (I don't
    recall whether I saw it recommended)

    Golden Boy Brand, which contains anchovy extract, salt, and sugar
    (0 mg carb per 1 Tbsp) and is made in Thailand (and claims
    "Winning First Prize Guaranteed by Kasetsart University,
    Thailand[,] Year after year as the best Thai authentic fish sauce")

    --
    Jean B.

  16. #16
    BubbaBob Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    Jim Elbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:

    > BubbaBob <rnorton47@_remove_this_comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    >>3 Crabs is not very good Nuoc Mam.

    >
    > It is easy to be a critic. Harder to give a recommendation. I've
    > got a 1/2 bottle of 3-Crab left. Time to start shopping for another
    > so I can compare. Make a suggestion and I'll see if it tickles my
    > taste buds better than the 3-Crab. [which, is the best I've found so
    > far]
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Jim
    >


    Here's my recommendation: make sure that it's made in Viet Nam. Every time
    I've found the real thing, it's been a different brand (so no brand
    recommendations) but the real stuff is ALWAYS better than the fake Thai
    Nuoc Mam, of which 3 Crabs is a prime example.

  17. #17
    BubbaBob Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:

    > BubbaBob wrote:
    >> 3 Crabs is not very good Nuoc Mam. Unfortunately, almost all Nuoc Mam
    >> in the US is just relabeled Nam Pla from Thailand. You have to search
    >> really hard to find real Vietnamese Nuoc Mam, which is about 1% of
    >> what's on the market here. It should never have sugar or any kind of
    >> texturized protien added.

    >
    > The ultra-expensive fish sauce I just got contains neither.
    >
    > Back to fish sauce in general... I can't find Tiparos in glass.
    > I need to get to Chinatown and to another pan-Asian store to look.
    >


    Tiparos is only acceptable for use in Filipino cooking, where it excells.

  18. #18
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 21:56:11 -0400, Jean B. wrote:

    > BubbaBob wrote:
    >> 3 Crabs is not very good Nuoc Mam. Unfortunately, almost all Nuoc Mam in
    >> the US is just relabeled Nam Pla from Thailand. You have to search really
    >> hard to find real Vietnamese Nuoc Mam, which is about 1% of what's on the
    >> market here. It should never have sugar or any kind of texturized protien
    >> added.

    >
    > The ultra-expensive fish sauce I just got contains neither.


    No fish sauce contains textured protein. I've never seen a "chunky"
    fish sauce. That somebody would even suggest that kinda makes me
    doubt their credibility regarding their expertise in fish sauce, or
    any other cooking matter.
    >
    > Back to fish sauce in general... I can't find Tiparos in glass.


    I can't say I've seen it recently either. Maybe they don't even
    package it that way any more. Any imported fish sauce should not be
    in plastic. That's a testament to it's inferior quality right there.

    -sw

  19. #19
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:08:37 -0400, Jean B. wrote:

    > Jim Elbrecht wrote:
    >> BubbaBob <rnorton47@_remove_this_comcast.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>> 3 Crabs is not very good Nuoc Mam.

    >>
    >> It is easy to be a critic. Harder to give a recommendation. I've
    >> got a 1/2 bottle of 3-Crab left. Time to start shopping for another
    >> so I can compare. Make a suggestion and I'll see if it tickles my
    >> taste buds better than the 3-Crab. [which, is the best I've found so
    >> far]
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Jim

    >
    > Just a moment. I can at least look on the bottle of Golden Boy,
    > which I have seen recommended but I haven't opened.
    >
    > Okay. I have:
    >
    > Tiparos, already expounded upon by SW (in plastic, so shoot me)
    >
    > 3 Crabs (also described by SW)
    >
    > Red Boat, which contains black anchovy and salt and emanates from
    > Vietnam (the aforementioned expensive stuff, which is probably not
    > available many places)
    >
    > Tra Chang Brand. which contains anchovy extract, salt and
    > water--and says it was manufactured in Rayong, Thailand (I don't
    > recall whether I saw it recommended)
    >
    > Golden Boy Brand, which contains anchovy extract, salt, and sugar
    > (0 mg carb per 1 Tbsp) and is made in Thailand (and claims
    > "Winning First Prize Guaranteed by Kasetsart University,
    > Thailand[,] Year after year as the best Thai authentic fish sauce")


    You ave WAY too many fish sauces :-) Don't turn into one of those
    FIsh Sauce Hoarders.

    -sw

  20. #20
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: Sqwertz re Three Crabs Fish Sauce

    On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:36:51 -0500, BubbaBob wrote:

    > Jim Elbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> BubbaBob <rnorton47@_remove_this_comcast.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>>3 Crabs is not very good Nuoc Mam.

    >>
    >> It is easy to be a critic. Harder to give a recommendation. I've
    >> got a 1/2 bottle of 3-Crab left. Time to start shopping for another
    >> so I can compare. Make a suggestion and I'll see if it tickles my
    >> taste buds better than the 3-Crab. [which, is the best I've found so
    >> far]

    >
    > Here's my recommendation: make sure that it's made in Viet Nam. Every time
    > I've found the real thing, it's been a different brand (so no brand
    > recommendations) but the real stuff is ALWAYS better than the fake Thai
    > Nuoc Mam, of which 3 Crabs is a prime example.


    Yeah, don't listen to all those world class chefs who recommend it.
    Take BubbaBobs advice and look for "That brand he can't even name".

    Ridiculous. I especially liked the "fake Thai nuoc mam" comment.
    Nice touch (it's called "nam pla", duh).

    -sw

    -sw

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