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Thread: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

  1. #1
    Bob Terwilliger Guest

    Default OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail there may
    not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.

    .. The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days almost
    certainly causes the loss of those privileges.

    .. This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail has the
    "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment protection.

    .. Correlation of search and mail has real risks.

    - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html


    Bob


  2. #2
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    > Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    > service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail there
    > may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    >
    > . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days
    > almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    >
    > . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail has
    > the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    > protection.
    >
    > . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    >
    > - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    > http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    >
    >
    > Bob


    That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it
    would only be for carefully selected purposes.

    --
    Jean B.

  3. #3
    sf Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:11:17 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:

    >That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it
    >would only be for carefully selected purposes.


    They can snoop all they want through my bad jokes and recipes. I have
    no reason to worry - unless they steal a punchline.

    --
    I love cooking with wine.
    Sometimes I even put it in the food.

  4. #4
    ffu Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:11:17 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:

    -->Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    -->> Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    -->> service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail there
    -->> may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    -->>
    -->> . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days
    -->> almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    -->>
    -->> . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail has
    -->> the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    -->> protection.
    -->>
    -->> . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    -->>
    -->> - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    -->> http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    -->>
    -->>
    -->> Bob
    -->
    -->That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it
    -->would only be for carefully selected purposes.


    I only use my gmail account when you have to provide an email address in order
    to access a site. It's basically my dumping ground for spammers, cause you know
    once they have you email addy they're gonna spam you, better there than my
    personal one.

  5. #5
    Bob Muncie Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    > Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    > service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail there
    > may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    >
    > . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days
    > almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    >
    > . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail has
    > the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    > protection.
    >
    > . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    >
    > - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    > http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    >
    >
    > Bob


    Bob -

    I guess that means I shouldn't have an issue to deal with here as I
    send anything I want to keep to my local Outlook 2007 on my desktop to
    maintain and archive via the ISP mail address.

    But I agree that their practice as documented is troubling.

    Bob

  6. #6
    Bob Muncie Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    Jean B. wrote:
    > Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    >> Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    >> service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail there
    >> may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    >>
    >> . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days
    >> almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    >>
    >> . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail
    >> has the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    >> protection.
    >>
    >> . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    >>
    >> - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    >> http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    >>
    >>
    >> Bob

    >
    > That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it would
    > only be for carefully selected purposes.
    >

    Hi Jean - That's exactly why I do use gmail. I have four accounts. One
    is completely anon, one is persona on the internet, one is me, and one I
    retain for work only. That gives me a permanent address for each that no
    mater the ISP changes I make, will stay valid.

    Bob

  7. #7
    Bob Muncie Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    ffu wrote:
    > On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:11:17 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > -->Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    > -->> Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    > -->> service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail there
    > -->> may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    > -->>
    > -->> . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days
    > -->> almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    > -->>
    > -->> . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail has
    > -->> the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    > -->> protection.
    > -->>
    > -->> . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    > -->>
    > -->> - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    > -->> http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    > -->>
    > -->>
    > -->> Bob
    > -->
    > -->That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it
    > -->would only be for carefully selected purposes.
    >
    >
    > I only use my gmail account when you have to provide an email address in order
    > to access a site. It's basically my dumping ground for spammers, cause you know
    > once they have you email addy they're gonna spam you, better there than my
    > personal one.


    Just a point here Stu.

    You can have multiple accounts to use for whatever. And each has a ton
    of space. I also don't worry about spam as 99% is already filtered to a
    separate inbox folder.

    Bob

  8. #8
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    sf wrote:
    > On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:11:17 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it
    >> would only be for carefully selected purposes.

    >
    > They can snoop all they want through my bad jokes and recipes. I have
    > no reason to worry - unless they steal a punchline.
    >


    Well, what I am saying is I could put subscriptions and things
    that might reap spam on gmail, but I would not use it for personal
    correspondence.

    --
    Jean B.

  9. #9
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    Bob Muncie wrote:
    > Jean B. wrote:
    >> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    >>> Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    >>> service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail
    >>> there may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    >>>
    >>> . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days
    >>> almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    >>>
    >>> . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail
    >>> has the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    >>> protection.
    >>>
    >>> . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    >>>
    >>> - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    >>> http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Bob

    >>
    >> That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it would
    >> only be for carefully selected purposes.
    >>

    > Hi Jean - That's exactly why I do use gmail. I have four accounts. One
    > is completely anon, one is persona on the internet, one is me, and one I
    > retain for work only. That gives me a permanent address for each that no
    > mater the ISP changes I make, will stay valid.
    >
    > Bob


    Well, I may just move subscriptions and various other things over
    when I move, since I'll have to change all of my addies anyway.

    --
    Jean B.

  10. #10
    Bob Muncie Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    Jean B. wrote:
    > Bob Muncie wrote:
    >> Jean B. wrote:
    >>> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    >>>> Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    >>>> service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail
    >>>> there may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    >>>>
    >>>> . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days
    >>>> almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    >>>>
    >>>> . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail
    >>>> has the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    >>>> protection.
    >>>>
    >>>> . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    >>>>
    >>>> - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    >>>> http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Bob
    >>>
    >>> That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it would
    >>> only be for carefully selected purposes.
    >>>

    >> Hi Jean - That's exactly why I do use gmail. I have four accounts. One
    >> is completely anon, one is persona on the internet, one is me, and one
    >> I retain for work only. That gives me a permanent address for each
    >> that no mater the ISP changes I make, will stay valid.
    >>
    >> Bob

    >
    > Well, I may just move subscriptions and various other things over when I
    > move, since I'll have to change all of my addies anyway.
    >


    Jean - That's one of the main reasons I use gmail. A permanent email
    address. I hate changing ISPs as it has traditionally cause me to update
    everyone I email with, not to mention the ones I infrequently email
    with. Now I don't have to update everyone in my address book every time
    I change providers.

    Bob


  11. #11
    ffu Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:26:53 -0400, Bob Muncie <[email protected]> wrote:

    -->ffu wrote:
    -->> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:11:17 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:
    -->>
    -->> -->Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    -->> -->> Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    -->> -->> service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail
    there
    -->> -->> may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    -->> -->>
    -->> -->> . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days
    -->> -->> almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    -->> -->>
    -->> -->> . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail
    has
    -->> -->> the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    -->> -->> protection.
    -->> -->>
    -->> -->> . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    -->> -->>
    -->> -->> - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    -->> -->> http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    -->> -->>
    -->> -->>
    -->> -->> Bob
    -->> -->
    -->> -->That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it
    -->> -->would only be for carefully selected purposes.
    -->>
    -->>
    -->> I only use my gmail account when you have to provide an email address in
    order
    -->> to access a site. It's basically my dumping ground for spammers, cause you
    know
    -->> once they have you email addy they're gonna spam you, better there than my
    -->> personal one.
    -->
    -->Just a point here Stu.
    -->
    -->You can have multiple accounts to use for whatever. And each has a ton
    -->of space. I also don't worry about spam as 99% is already filtered to a
    -->separate inbox folder.
    -->
    -->Bob

    True, but I don't use it here for the obvious. The programs you need usually
    need an email address, I use my gmail. It keeps the unsolicited **** and the
    spammers away from my personal email which I only use for family and friends.

  12. #12
    Bob Muncie Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    ffu wrote:
    > On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:26:53 -0400, Bob Muncie <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > -->ffu wrote:
    > -->> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:11:17 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:
    > -->>
    > -->> -->Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    > -->> -->> Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail delivery
    > -->> -->> service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail
    > there
    > -->> -->> may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    > -->> -->>
    > -->> -->> . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180 days
    > -->> -->> almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    > -->> -->>
    > -->> -->> . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether e-mail
    > has
    > -->> -->> the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    > -->> -->> protection.
    > -->> -->>
    > -->> -->> . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    > -->> -->>
    > -->> -->> - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
    > -->> -->> http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    > -->> -->>
    > -->> -->>
    > -->> -->> Bob
    > -->> -->
    > -->> -->That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it
    > -->> -->would only be for carefully selected purposes.
    > -->>
    > -->>
    > -->> I only use my gmail account when you have to provide an email address in
    > order
    > -->> to access a site. It's basically my dumping ground for spammers, cause you
    > know
    > -->> once they have you email addy they're gonna spam you, better there than my
    > -->> personal one.
    > -->
    > -->Just a point here Stu.
    > -->
    > -->You can have multiple accounts to use for whatever. And each has a ton
    > -->of space. I also don't worry about spam as 99% is already filtered to a
    > -->separate inbox folder.
    > -->
    > -->Bob
    >
    > True, but I don't use it here for the obvious. The programs you need usually
    > need an email address, I use my gmail. It keeps the unsolicited **** and the
    > spammers away from my personal email which I only use for family and friends.


    Not quite sure what you mean by the obvious Stu. Gmail works for me
    period. If you refer to Usenet, I use Thunderbird.

    Bob

  13. #13
    sf Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:36:44 -0500, ffu <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I only use my gmail account when you have to provide an email address in order
    >to access a site. It's basically my dumping ground for spammers, cause you know
    >once they have you email addy they're gonna spam you, better there than my
    >personal one.


    Haven't you noticed that gmail is really good about blocking email
    spam? That's a strength.

    Unfortunately, google doesn't stop Usenet spam with the same vigor. I
    wish Google would filter usenet spam as aggressively as it does email
    spam. Other servers can take care of themselves, but IMO any usenet
    spam that originates from google should be shot on sight.

    --
    I love cooking with wine.
    Sometimes I even put it in the food.

  14. #14
    ffu Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:14:08 -0700, sf <[email protected]> wrote:

    -->On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:36:44 -0500, ffu <[email protected]> wrote:
    -->
    -->>I only use my gmail account when you have to provide an email address in
    order
    -->>to access a site. It's basically my dumping ground for spammers, cause you
    know
    -->>once they have you email addy they're gonna spam you, better there than my
    -->>personal one.
    -->
    -->Haven't you noticed that gmail is really good about blocking email
    -->spam? That's a strength.
    -->
    -->Unfortunately, google doesn't stop Usenet spam with the same vigor. I
    -->wish Google would filter usenet spam as aggressively as it does email
    -->spam. Other servers can take care of themselves, but IMO any usenet
    -->spam that originates from google should be shot on sight.


    It's purly a dumping ground, I also have a Yahoo and Hotmail.

  15. #15
    ffu Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:43:48 -0400, Bob Muncie <[email protected]> wrote:

    -->ffu wrote:
    -->> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:26:53 -0400, Bob Muncie <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    -->>
    -->> -->ffu wrote:
    -->> -->> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:11:17 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:
    -->> -->>
    -->> -->> -->Bob Terwilliger wrote:
    -->> -->> -->> Because GMail gets your consent to be more than an e-mail
    delivery
    -->> -->> -->> service -- offering searching, storage and shopping -- your mail
    -->> there
    -->> -->> -->> may not get the legal protection the ECPA gives you on E-mail.
    -->> -->> -->>
    -->> -->> -->> . The storage of e-mail on 3rd party servers for more than 180
    days
    -->> -->> -->> almost certainly causes the loss of those privileges.
    -->> -->> -->>
    -->> -->> -->> . This in turn creates a danger that we may redefine whether
    e-mail
    -->> has
    -->> -->> -->> the "reasonable expectation of privacy" needed for 4th amendment
    -->> -->> -->> protection.
    -->> -->> -->>
    -->> -->> -->> . Correlation of search and mail has real risks.
    -->> -->> -->>
    -->> -->> -->> - Brad Templeton, Chairman of the Electronic Frontier
    Foundation,
    -->> -->> -->> http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmail.html
    -->> -->> -->>
    -->> -->> -->>
    -->> -->> -->> Bob
    -->> -->> -->
    -->> -->> -->That's one reason why I don't use gmail. Someday I may, but it
    -->> -->> -->would only be for carefully selected purposes.
    -->> -->>
    -->> -->>
    -->> -->> I only use my gmail account when you have to provide an email
    address in
    -->> order
    -->> -->> to access a site. It's basically my dumping ground for spammers,
    cause you
    -->> know
    -->> -->> once they have you email addy they're gonna spam you, better there
    than my
    -->> -->> personal one.
    -->> -->
    -->> -->Just a point here Stu.
    -->> -->
    -->> -->You can have multiple accounts to use for whatever. And each has a ton
    -->> -->of space. I also don't worry about spam as 99% is already filtered to a
    -->> -->separate inbox folder.
    -->> -->
    -->> -->Bob
    -->>
    -->> True, but I don't use it here for the obvious. The programs you need
    usually
    -->> need an email address, I use my gmail. It keeps the unsolicited **** and
    the
    -->> spammers away from my personal email which I only use for family and
    friends.
    -->
    -->Not quite sure what you mean by the obvious Stu. Gmail works for me
    -->period. If you refer to Usenet, I use Thunderbird.
    -->
    -->Bob

    I use Gmail as a throw away email address, my personal email is no where near
    gmail. So if someone wants to send me a proposal for a book, or any such thing
    it stops right there as they only have the gmail addy and not the personal one.

  16. #16
    sf Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:03:43 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Well, I may just move subscriptions and various other things over
    >when I move, since I'll have to change all of my addies anyway.


    The nice thing about gmail is that you can set it to forward to
    whatever in box you're using currently. If there's ever a problem,
    you can reset it not to forward until the problem goes away.


    --
    I love cooking with wine.
    Sometimes I even put it in the food.

  17. #17
    cybercat Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider


    "sf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:03:43 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Well, I may just move subscriptions and various other things over
    >>when I move, since I'll have to change all of my addies anyway.

    >
    > The nice thing about gmail is that you can set it to forward to
    > whatever in box you're using currently. If there's ever a problem,
    > you can reset it not to forward until the problem goes away.
    >

    I do the opposite. Because gmail has unlimited storage, I not only forward
    my word documents there as a second backup, but I forward all my mail from
    my primary box to my gmail box. Client correspondence and personal. I'm not
    worried about the privacy issues as I have nothing to hide.



  18. #18
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    sf wrote:
    > On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:03:43 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Well, I may just move subscriptions and various other things over
    >> when I move, since I'll have to change all of my addies anyway.

    >
    > The nice thing about gmail is that you can set it to forward to
    > whatever in box you're using currently. If there's ever a problem,
    > you can reset it not to forward until the problem goes away.
    >
    >

    Does it forward after screening out the spam?

    --
    Jean B.

  19. #19
    Bob Muncie Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    Jean B. wrote:
    > sf wrote:
    >> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:03:43 -0400, "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Well, I may just move subscriptions and various other things over
    >>> when I move, since I'll have to change all of my addies anyway.

    >>
    >> The nice thing about gmail is that you can set it to forward to
    >> whatever in box you're using currently. If there's ever a problem,
    >> you can reset it not to forward until the problem goes away.
    >>
    >>

    > Does it forward after screening out the spam?
    >

    Jean - I do know you can set it to auto forward, but I haven't used that
    function as I can view the mail while still in the browser. FireFox has
    an add-on that adds a small icon on the small border of the frame at the
    bottom, that lets you know when you have new mail, and when you click on
    it, it opens a new tab straight to your gmail inbox.

    I only forward to my ISP inbox when I decide to keep/archive mail.

    Back to your original question, I do not know if the mail is filtered or
    not prior to forwarding. I do know you receive even the filtered email,
    but the stuff the gmail server has determined as spam, goes to a
    separate folder labeled spam in case of want to review prior to deletion.

    Bob

  20. #20
    blake murphy Guest

    Default Re: OT Tidbit for gmail users to consider

    On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 02:55:07 -0400, cybercat wrote:

    > I do the opposite. Because gmail has unlimited storage, I not only forward
    > my word documents there as a second backup, but I forward all my mail from
    > my primary box to my gmail box. Client correspondence and personal. I'm not
    > worried about the privacy issues as I have nothing to hide.


    i'm very sorry to hear the last part.

    your pal,
    blake

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