Thread: OT: I want a better cookie!

Nad R <[email protected]> wrote in news:iggjr8$j7h$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>
> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>
> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done
enough
> on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
> shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the
doe
> first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.
>
> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air Bake
> Sheets.
> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>
> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>
> I want a better cookie!
>



If they're "too done" on the bottom, and not done enough on the top, your
oven temp seems to be too high.

Using a 'regular' tray shouldn't be a problem with the right temp.

Maybe get an oven/cooking thermometer to check your oven.



--
Peter Lucas
Hobart
Tasmania

"The joys of the table belong equally to all ages, conditions, countries
and times; they mix with all other pleasures, and remain the last to
console us for their loss."
Jean Antheleme Brillet-Savarin,

On 1/10/2011 10:46 PM, Nad R wrote:
> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>
> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>
> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done enough
> on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
> shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the doe
> first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.
>
> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air Bake
> Sheets.
> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>
> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>
> I want a better cookie!
>
The problem is or at least the problem is less with better ovens.
Heat distribution is what it is.
The air bake cookie sheets with an air space between cooking surface and
bottom do work better.
Trial and error with your particular oven may help greatly.
The air bake cookie sheets and placing it higher in the oven may work
and subsequently a little cooler setting may work.
The heat comes from the bottom to top and the bottom does tend to cook
first.

On Mon 10 Jan 2011 08:46:48p, Nad R told us...

> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>
> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>
> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not
> done enough on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried
> top shelf, bottom shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the
> pans first, cooling the doe first, both, parchment paper, just
> greasing the pans... No difference.
>
> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air
> Bake Sheets.
> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>
> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>
> I want a better cookie!
>

I always "double pan" for baking cookies. This insulates the bottom
enough to allow for even browning. I also use parchment pater, but
more for convenience than the way the cookies bake. Nothing sticks
to it and you can remove the entire sheet of cookies from the pan for
cooling. Using two pans together is roughly equivalent to using an
air bake sheet much less expensive.

--

~~ If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it. ~~

~~ A mind is a terrible thing to lose. ~~

************************************************** ********

Wayne Boatwright

"Aussie#1" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nad R <[email protected]> wrote in news:iggjr8$j7h$1
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>>
>> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>>
>> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done
> enough
>> on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
>> shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the
> doe
>> first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.
>>
>> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air Bake
>> Sheets.
>> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>>
>> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>>
>> I want a better cookie!
>
>
> If they're "too done" on the bottom, and not done enough on the top, your
> oven temp seems to be too high.
>
> Using a 'regular' tray shouldn't be a problem with the right temp.
>
> Maybe get an oven/cooking thermometer to check your oven.
>

I was wondering about lowering the temp for cookies.

I have an oven/temp thermometer. The temp is correct. However it could
still be the oven. I have a regular home natural gas oven converted to
propane. I wonder if propane causes the temp difference to be too great,
gets hot too fast, then gets too cold for the on off cycles.

Cookies are smaller and thinner. Probably why other baked items come out
fine. Even with a new oven, I will have the same problem if propane is the
cause of uneven baking. Therefore the mats? But I will try lower temps and
see.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Wayne Boatwright <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon 10 Jan 2011 08:46:48p, Nad R told us...
>
>> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>>
>> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>>
>> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not
>> done enough on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried
>> top shelf, bottom shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the
>> pans first, cooling the doe first, both, parchment paper, just
>> greasing the pans... No difference.
>>
>> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air
>> Bake Sheets.
>> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>>
>> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>>
>> I want a better cookie!
>>
>
> I always "double pan" for baking cookies. This insulates the bottom
> enough to allow for even browning. I also use parchment pater, but
> more for convenience than the way the cookies bake. Nothing sticks
> to it and you can remove the entire sheet of cookies from the pan for
> cooling. Using two pans together is roughly equivalent to using an
> air bake sheet much less expensive.

"Double Pan" cool, I learned something new today... cool.
If I read your statement correctly, you also had this problem with only
cookies and not other items. So I am not the only one. I feel better now

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Mon 10 Jan 2011 10:02:59p, Nad R told us...

> Wayne Boatwright <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon 10 Jan 2011 08:46:48p, Nad R told us...
>>
>>> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>>>
>>> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>>>
>>> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not
>>> done enough on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried
>>> top shelf, bottom shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the
>>> pans first, cooling the doe first, both, parchment paper, just
>>> greasing the pans... No difference.
>>>
>>> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air
>>> Bake Sheets.
>>> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets,
>>> neither?
>>>
>>> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>>>
>>> I want a better cookie!
>>>
>>
>> I always "double pan" for baking cookies. This insulates the
>> bottom enough to allow for even browning. I also use parchment
>> pater, but more for convenience than the way the cookies bake.
>> Nothing sticks to it and you can remove the entire sheet of
>> cookies from the pan for cooling. Using two pans together is
>> roughly equivalent to using an air bake sheet much less
>> expensive.
>
> "Double Pan" cool, I learned something new today... cool.
> If I read your statement correctly, you also had this problem with
> only cookies and not other items. So I am not the only one. I feel
> better now
>

Yes, you read correctly. My oven is accurate and I don't vary the
recommended temperature. When I had a convection oven, using double
pans wasn't necessary, but in a regular oven it seems to work
flawlessly with double pans.

The only other baked item where I use double pans is a particular
pound cake recipe which tends to have a darker crust than I like when
baked in a single loaf pan.

Also bear in mind that shiny pans usually produce a lighter colored
bottom whereas darker pans will produce a darker colored bottom.

The pans I use are not actually cookie sheets. They are commercial
weight aluminum half-sheet shallow baking pans. The depth is 5/8
inch.

A week before Christmas I took my baking pans and cooling racks to a
friend's house where we baked over 30 dozen cookies of different
types. There wasn't a single cookie that failed. It was fun.

--

~~ If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it. ~~

~~ A mind is a terrible thing to lose. ~~

************************************************** ********

Wayne Boatwright

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 03:46:48 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>
> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>
> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done enough
> on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
> shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the doe
> first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.
>
> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air Bake
> Sheets.
> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>
> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>
> I want a better cookie!

You didn't tell us what temperature you're cooking them at, but I'm
thinking that your oven isn't heating evenly.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

"Nad R" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:iggjr8$j7h$[email protected]..
> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>
> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>
> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done
> enough
> on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
> shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the doe
> first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.
>
> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air Bake
> Sheets.
> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>
> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>
> I want a better cookie!

Get Airbake sheets. They're not cheap but they make perfect cookies.

Nad R <[email protected]> wrote:

>Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>
>I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>
>My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done enough
>on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
>shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the doe
>first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.

Have you tried a different pan? I've had worse luck with dark, hard
metal [steel?] pans than the shiny aluminum[?] ones.

-snip-
>Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?

In a lot cookies it will just dry them out--- But if you are having
this bad luck with just one recipe-- or just one temp - then it would
be worth a try.

Jim

Lil Abner wrote:
> On 1/10/2011 10:46 PM, Nad R wrote:
>> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>>
>> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>>
>> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done
>> enough on top.

> The air bake cookie sheets with an air space between cooking surface
> and bottom do work better.

+1 - that's what we use here.

I'd experiment with everything, one thing at a time, and not just which
cookie sheet you use. Different shortening in the same recipe, thinner
cookies, store-bought cookie dough instead of homemade, different baking
temperatures.

One thing I have noticed with cookies is that if I wait until they look
done, they're always overdone.

-S-

No Nads wrote:
>
>My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done enough
>on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
>shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the doe
>first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.
>
>I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air Bake
>Sheets.
>Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>
>Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>
>I want a better cookie!

Without your recipe all anyone can offer is wild speculation. With
uneven baking my first wild stab is expired baking powder.

Wayne Boatwright <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon 10 Jan 2011 10:02:59p, Nad R told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Mon 10 Jan 2011 08:46:48p, Nad R told us...
>>>
>>>> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>>>>
>>>> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>>>>
>>>> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not
>>>> done enough on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried
>>>> top shelf, bottom shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the
>>>> pans first, cooling the doe first, both, parchment paper, just
>>>> greasing the pans... No difference.
>>>>
>>>> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air
>>>> Bake Sheets.
>>>> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets,
>>>> neither?
>>>>
>>>> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>>>>
>>>> I want a better cookie!
>>>>
>>>
>>> I always "double pan" for baking cookies. This insulates the
>>> bottom enough to allow for even browning. I also use parchment
>>> pater, but more for convenience than the way the cookies bake.
>>> Nothing sticks to it and you can remove the entire sheet of
>>> cookies from the pan for cooling. Using two pans together is
>>> roughly equivalent to using an air bake sheet much less
>>> expensive.
>>
>> "Double Pan" cool, I learned something new today... cool.
>> If I read your statement correctly, you also had this problem with
>> only cookies and not other items. So I am not the only one. I feel
>> better now
>>
>
> Yes, you read correctly. My oven is accurate and I don't vary the
> recommended temperature. When I had a convection oven, using double
> pans wasn't necessary, but in a regular oven it seems to work
> flawlessly with double pans.
>
> The only other baked item where I use double pans is a particular
> pound cake recipe which tends to have a darker crust than I like when
> baked in a single loaf pan.
>
> Also bear in mind that shiny pans usually produce a lighter colored
> bottom whereas darker pans will produce a darker colored bottom.
>
> The pans I use are not actually cookie sheets. They are commercial
> weight aluminum half-sheet shallow baking pans. The depth is 5/8
> inch.
>
> A week before Christmas I took my baking pans and cooling racks to a
> friend's house where we baked over 30 dozen cookies of different
> types. There wasn't a single cookie that failed. It was fun.

I was thinking it is my baking sheets pans They are dark steel ones. That
is why asked which was better, Mats or Air Bake. I can imagine those with
electric ovens will get an even oven temperature over gas.

So far not one person thought the Silicone Mats were better than the Air
Baking sheets. The Air Baking sheets also cost less than those Mats. I am
not sure those commercial sheet pans will fit my oven, those commercial
pans are large even the half size ones. I probably can get the Air Bake
ones for the same cost as commercial sheet pans.

As another poster stated a lower temp will dry out the cookies.
Soon to have new Air Baking Sheets.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> No Nads wrote:
>>
>> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done enough
>> on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
>> shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the doe
>> first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.
>>
>> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air Bake
>> Sheets.
>> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>>
>> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>>
>> I want a better cookie!
>
> Without your recipe all anyone can offer is wild speculation. With
> uneven baking my first wild stab is expired baking powder.

All types of cookies turn out that way, Chocolate chip from Martha
Stewards, Christmas and Macaroons from Alton Brown... All turn out the same
too dark on bottom. I sure it is the pans. Some shows TV shows the Mats and
others use the Air Sheets. I rarely see them on TV using everyday sheet
pans for cookies.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On 11/01/2011 9:28 AM, Nad R wrote:
uneven baking my first wild stab is expired baking powder.
>
> All types of cookies turn out that way, Chocolate chip from Martha
> Stewards, Christmas and Macaroons from Alton Brown... All turn out the same
> too dark on bottom. I sure it is the pans. Some shows TV shows the Mats and
> others use the Air Sheets. I rarely see them on TV using everyday sheet
> pans for cookies.
>
I had that problem for when I got a new stove. I went back and
complained and they gave me a cock and bull story about being due to the
oven being energy efficient and recommended better baking sheets. There
was a slight improvement when I started using the two layered baking
sheets. A few years a later I replaced the stove with a Maytag and
cookies made with the same recipes and using the same cheap cooking
sheets turned out beautifully.

On Jan 10, 10:46*pm, Nad R <n...@positivegogetter.cooldude> wrote:
> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>
> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>
> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done enough
> on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
> shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the doe
> first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.


This very issue was covered in the current issue of Fine Cooking, Feb/
Mar2011 Vol 109. Great article that included...

"IN a conventional oven, the heat conducted to the undersides of the
cookies through the baking sheet is more intesne3 than the heat
radiating from the air around the top of the cookies. If you have a
convection oven, though, you've probably noticed that your cookies
bake evenly. If you don't have a convection oven, try baking cookies
in the top half of your oven, away from the heat source...but where
the air is hottest. Also, avoid dark baking sheets, which cause more
browning than lighter ones and thin, flimsy cookie sheets.
Insulated sheets are thick but lightweight, due to an inner air pocket
help prevent bottom browning. Heavy light colored sheets takes
longer to warm up and can therefore deter excess browning".

Good luck on your cookie baking experiences!

"Mr. Bill" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 10:46 pm, Nad R <n...@positivegogetter.cooldude> wrote:
>> Since the rec.food.baking looks empty I will try here.
>>
>> I seem to do ok with cakes, biscuits and breads...
>>
>> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done enough
>> on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
>> shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the doe
>> first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.
>
>
> This very issue was covered in the current issue of Fine Cooking, Feb/
> Mar2011 Vol 109. Great article that included...
>
> "IN a conventional oven, the heat conducted to the undersides of the
> cookies through the baking sheet is more intesne3 than the heat
> radiating from the air around the top of the cookies. If you have a
> convection oven, though, you've probably noticed that your cookies
> bake evenly. If you don't have a convection oven, try baking cookies
> in the top half of your oven, away from the heat source...but where
> the air is hottest. Also, avoid dark baking sheets, which cause more
> browning than lighter ones and thin, flimsy cookie sheets.
> Insulated sheets are thick but lightweight, due to an inner air pocket
> help prevent bottom browning. Heavy light colored sheets takes
> longer to warm up and can therefore deter excess browning".
>
> Good luck on your cookie baking experiences!

Thanks, I will get a copy while I am out buy new air bake sheets. It will
be a least two days before I try making cookies with new pans.

Again, no one tried those baking mats?

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:19:09 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Again, no one tried those baking mats?

Are you referring to Silpat?.....they only keep product from sticking
to the pan. MOST cookies have enough shortening, butter or lard to
prevent that. They are very expensive and parchment paper will
give the same results.

Join me....a little fun, some ramblings and good recipes

http://whstoneman.blogspot.com

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:28:07 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>> No Nads wrote:
>>>
>>> My cookies always bake unevenly. Always too done on bottom, not done enough
>>> on top. Currently using regular sheet pans. I tried top shelf, bottom
>>> shelf, middle shelf, I have tried cooling the pans first, cooling the doe
>>> first, both, parchment paper, just greasing the pans... No difference.
>>>
>>> I am now thinking about those Silicone Baking Mats or those Air Bake
>>> Sheets.
>>> Which would better, the Silicone Mats or Air Bake Sheets, neither?
>>>
>>> Would lowering the oven temp help with a longer baking time?
>>>
>>> I want a better cookie!
>>
>> Without your recipe all anyone can offer is wild speculation. With
>> uneven baking my first wild stab is expired baking powder.
>
>All types of cookies turn out that way, Chocolate chip from Martha
>Stewards, Christmas and Macaroons from Alton Brown... All turn out the same
>too dark on bottom.

Well, if you're using the same expired baking powder...

>I sure it is the pans.

I'm sure it's not the pans. All cookies should bake evenly on plain
old ordinary baking sheet pans. Using the incorrect quantity of
cookie dough (too much or too little) can affect doneness, because if
the cookie doesn't spread properly (too thick or too thin) it can bake
unevenly. I'm sure it's not your oven either, you say it registers
the correct temperature. It could be you're using incorrect flour,
cookies don't bake well with soft/cake flour and certainly not with
self rising flour. It's obviously your technique... just like some
gardeners have a brown thumb you may have no cookie baking thumb at
all... not surprisingly some people really can't bake... I've met
quite a few who don't have a clue about how properly creamed
shortening with sugar should look. If you have a friend/relative
known to be a good baker willing to help ask them to your kitchen to
bake your recipe in your oven on your pan but with their
ingredients... don't say anything, not even why you're doing this,
make no suggestions, make no comments, just sit quietly and wait for
the results. Btw, cookies are not supposed to bake evenly, they
should be brown(er) on the bottom. I really don't like how convection
ovens bake or roast, they cook too evenly... perhaps you've become
used to how commercially baked goods look perfectly evenly baked from
their convection conveyer ovens.

On Jan 11, 7:19*am, Nad R <n...@positivegogetter.cooldude> wrote:
> Again, no one tried those baking mats?
I rarely bake less than 8-dozen cookies at a time and have two of the
silicone sheets. After using them many times, several years ago they
simply became space taker uppers in my too small kitchen. All I
learned from using the silicone sheets is that they merely give you a
non-stick baking surface, having no effect at all on browning. A
bigger (to me) thing I do not like about them is that no matter what
washing method used, they remain feeling sticky and therefore I store
them rolled together lined with wax paper.
Another try for baking ease and perfection was to buy the largest
"rippled" baking sheets for $30-ish each through www.Kingarthurflour.com
that I also have two of. Those sheets allow me baking batches of up
to 35 two-inch cookies per sheet of ones that spread very little, and
I liked that feature so much I bought an additional two for my
daughter and gran. The sheets are fairly non-stick, but when baking
cookies I did not want what amounted to brown striped striped bottoms
on, I still used parchment (that also works well re-using for up to
four batched).
For my just past Christmas baking marathon I used air bake sheets with
parchment, which as another here mentions, is great for simply sliding
the entire sheet of cookies off for cooling. Just through my recent
baking marathon, I now know that the air bake sheets and parchment is
the only way to go. KAF had a sale on 100 per package parchment half-
sheets (which are a perfect cookie sheet, jellyroll pan size) in late
November and I enjoyed learning of using them so much that I quickly
re-ordered two more packages.
....Picky