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Thread: News- is this Lucas?

  1. #1
    white pelican Guest

    Default News- is this Lucas?

    MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped the
    city.

    He was first spotted at the top of one of the bridge's peaks, 80
    metres above the Brisbane River, about 3.30pm yesterday.

    The man, believed to be in his 50s, Caucasian with short brown hair
    and a fair complexion, allowed officers to help him down about 1.30am
    this morning.

    Police have refused to officially identify him but it is known that
    the man is a retired soldier living on Russell Island and it is
    unclear why he climbed the steel cantilever bridge near the city
    centre.

    "We said very little to him, he did most of the talking, and he gave
    every indication that he was in a position to jump from the bridge," a
    police spokesman said.

    "He spoke to police negotiators all through the day and finally
    decided that he'd had enough and pleaded to be helped down. He seemed
    very afraid."

    The man faces charges. He will be interviewed by police after being
    assessed at Royal Brisbane Hospital.

    Yesterday his face was shown on evening television news bulletins in a
    bid to find somebody who may have known him.

    Police involved in the negotiations were able to identify him only
    after issuing the public appeal through the media.

    They also tried to trace relatives or friends in the hope they could
    help talk him down.

    One family member arrived at the bridge.

    The man did not show any remorse for putting police rescuers and
    negotiators at risk by climbing the bridge to speak him.

    During the drama, one traffic lane 50 metres below where the man was
    precariously perched was closed as a safety precaution.




  2. #2
    Peter Lucas Guest

    Default Re: News- is this Lucas?

    white pelican wrote:
    > MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    > down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped the
    > city.
    >
    > He was first spotted at the top of one of the bridge's peaks, 80
    > metres above the Brisbane River, about 3.30pm yesterday.
    >
    > The man, believed to be in his 50s, Caucasian with short brown hair
    > and a fair complexion, allowed officers to help him down about 1.30am
    > this morning.
    >
    > Police have refused to officially identify him but it is known that
    > the man is a retired soldier living on Russell Island and it is
    > unclear why he climbed the steel cantilever bridge near the city
    > centre.
    >
    > "We said very little to him, he did most of the talking, and he gave
    > every indication that he was in a position to jump from the bridge," a
    > police spokesman said.
    >
    > "He spoke to police negotiators all through the day and finally
    > decided that he'd had enough and pleaded to be helped down. He seemed
    > very afraid."
    >
    > The man faces charges. He will be interviewed by police after being
    > assessed at Royal Brisbane Hospital.
    >
    > Yesterday his face was shown on evening television news bulletins in a
    > bid to find somebody who may have known him.
    >
    > Police involved in the negotiations were able to identify him only
    > after issuing the public appeal through the media.
    >
    > They also tried to trace relatives or friends in the hope they could
    > help talk him down.
    >
    > One family member arrived at the bridge.
    >
    > The man did not show any remorse for putting police rescuers and
    > negotiators at risk by climbing the bridge to speak him.
    >
    > During the drama, one traffic lane 50 metres below where the man was
    > precariously perched was closed as a safety precaution.


    SO you think my life is for your pleasure kirkland--- I'll see you in
    HELL someday you bastard.
    OBVIOUSLY you have NO concept how crippling ptsd can be, I hope you
    get to suffer from social impotency too and then we will see just howe
    funny you find it.

    how about backing off for a while so I can rebuild my composure, the
    SO is also giving me the cold shoulder now I hope you are pleased with
    yourself you filthy stalking grub. I may be mentally crippled but I
    sure am MORE than capable of tearing you a new asshole - ASSHOLE!

  3. #3
    Michael \Dog3\ Guest

    Default Re: News- is this Lucas?

    white pelican <[email protected]> news:b2cb5f2b-6c4d-40d9-bb97-
    [email protected]: in rec.food.cooking

    > MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    > down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped the
    > city.
    >
    > He was first spotted at the top of one of the bridge's peaks, 80
    > metres above the Brisbane River, about 3.30pm yesterday.
    >
    > The man, believed to be in his 50s, Caucasian with short brown hair
    > and a fair complexion, allowed officers to help him down about 1.30am
    > this morning.
    >
    > Police have refused to officially identify him but it is known that
    > the man is a retired soldier living on Russell Island and it is
    > unclear why he climbed the steel cantilever bridge near the city
    > centre.


    I certainly hope not. I detest the man but would never wish him any harm.
    You did not list a cite for this story so I'm not sure it's even true or
    not. I hope this man seeks out the help he appears to need.

    Michael

  4. #4
    Pugsley Guest

    Default Re: News- is this Lucas?


    "white pelican" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    > down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped the
    > city.
    >


    Axshully, nobody cares. Someone just might care if the "jumper" had been
    your mouldy arse, and you had actually JUMPED. Then, this world would be a
    much better place.

    Pugs



  5. #5
    PeterL Guest

    Default Re: News- is this Lucas?

    "Michael \"Dog3\"" <don'[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > white pelican <[email protected]> news:b2cb5f2b-6c4d-40d9-bb97-
    > [email protected]: in rec.food.cooking
    >
    >> MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    >> down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped the
    >> city.
    >>
    >> He was first spotted at the top of one of the bridge's peaks, 80
    >> metres above the Brisbane River, about 3.30pm yesterday.
    >>
    >> The man, believed to be in his 50s, Caucasian with short brown hair
    >> and a fair complexion, allowed officers to help him down about 1.30am
    >> this morning.
    >>
    >> Police have refused to officially identify him but it is known that
    >> the man is a retired soldier living on Russell Island and it is
    >> unclear why he climbed the steel cantilever bridge near the city
    >> centre.

    >
    > I certainly hope not. I detest the man but would never wish him any harm.



    I feel the same about you.



    > You did not list a cite for this story so I'm not sure it's even true or
    > not.



    It's *partially* true. It's an old news story from 3April 2007. You see, the
    Vietnam POW fraud kirkland is soooooo obssessed with me, it's tried to make
    like the story is about me, because I *used* to live on Russell Island years
    ago. You see, it's stuck in a time warp, and it can't move forward because it
    doesn't have the know-how, or the information.

    http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...9-3102,00.html


    > I hope this man seeks out the help he appears to need.
    >



    kirkland?? Many, *many* people have told it over many *many* years to go seek
    professional help. It hasn't, and it won't because then all it's lies and
    dirty little secrets will be found out.

    As in it claiming to be a "tortured POW from Vietnam"...... and the fact that
    it's all alone after it's wife has divorced it because of "incidents"
    involving it, and it's grand-kids...... it's a kiddy-fiddler.


    --
    Peter Lucas
    Brisbane
    Australia

    Tell me what you eat and I'll tell you who you are.

    Jean Anthelme Brillat-Savarin

  6. #6
    PurpleHaze Guest

    Default Re: News- is this Lucas?


    "PeterL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected] .25...
    > "Michael \"Dog3\"" <don'[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >> white pelican <[email protected]> news:b2cb5f2b-6c4d-40d9-bb97-
    >> [email protected]: in rec.food.cooking
    >>
    >>> MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    >>> down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped the
    >>> city.
    >>>
    >>> He was first spotted at the top of one of the bridge's peaks, 80
    >>> metres above the Brisbane River, about 3.30pm yesterday.
    >>>
    >>> The man, believed to be in his 50s, Caucasian with short brown hair
    >>> and a fair complexion, allowed officers to help him down about 1.30am
    >>> this morning.
    >>>
    >>> Police have refused to officially identify him but it is known that
    >>> the man is a retired soldier living on Russell Island and it is
    >>> unclear why he climbed the steel cantilever bridge near the city
    >>> centre.

    >>
    >> I certainly hope not. I detest the man but would never wish him any harm.

    >
    >
    > I feel the same about you.
    >
    >
    >
    >> You did not list a cite for this story so I'm not sure it's even true or
    >> not.

    >
    >
    > It's *partially* true. It's an old news story from 3April 2007. You see,
    > the
    > Vietnam POW fraud kirkland is soooooo obssessed with me, it's tried to
    > make
    > like the story is about me, because I *used* to live on Russell Island
    > years
    > ago. You see, it's stuck in a time warp, and it can't move forward because
    > it
    > doesn't have the know-how, or the information.
    >
    > http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...9-3102,00.html
    >
    >
    >> I hope this man seeks out the help he appears to need.
    >>

    >
    >
    > kirkland?? Many, *many* people have told it over many *many* years to go
    > seek
    > professional help. It hasn't, and it won't because then all it's lies and
    > dirty little secrets will be found out.
    >
    > As in it claiming to be a "tortured POW from Vietnam"...... and the fact
    > that
    > it's all alone after it's wife has divorced it because of "incidents"
    > involving it, and it's grand-kids...... it's a kiddy-fiddler.
    >


    How do you know your so called stalker is Kirkland?



  7. #7
    PurpleHaze Guest

    Default Re: It's coming up to a full moon...Re: News- is this Lucas?

    Why are you so scared of this non-person who you have named kirkland?

    "PeterL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected] .25...
    > "PurpleHaze" <[email protected]> wrote in news:baril.17516$cu.1399
    > @news-server.bigpond.net.au:
    >
    >
    >
    > It's kirkland again........ killfile [email protected]
    >
    > or just dkinni.com
    >
    >
    > From: "PurpleHaze" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 60.230.102.99
    >
    > From: "Sir Loin" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 60.230.102.99
    >
    > From: "Chu Mi Phany" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "carrot morning" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "GroundHog" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "space pumpkin" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "FunkyFish" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "Amabo" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    >
    > From: Ben Mann <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "chris" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: PLucas <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "peninsula" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "claymore" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "claymore" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.166.247
    >
    > From: "notbevan" <not [email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.216.29
    >
    > From: "??????" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.216.29
    >
    > From: "mmm" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.216.29
    >
    > From: "Terry" <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.216.29
    >
    > From: LindaR <[email protected]>
    > NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.176.216.29
    >
    >
    > Take care,
    >
    > --
    > Peter Lucas
    > Brisbane
    > Australia
    >
    > Tell me what you eat and I'll tell you who you are.
    >
    > Jean Anthelme Brillat-Savarin




  8. #8
    Ben Mann Guest

    Default Re: News- is this Lucas?

    Now this is really Peter Lucas!!!!!

    After serious thinking Peter Lucas wrote :
    > white pelican wrote:
    >> MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    >> down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped the
    >> city.
    >>
    >> He was first spotted at the top of one of the bridge's peaks, 80
    >> metres above the Brisbane River, about 3.30pm yesterday.
    >>
    >> The man, believed to be in his 50s, Caucasian with short brown hair
    >> and a fair complexion, allowed officers to help him down about 1.30am
    >> this morning.
    >>
    >> Police have refused to officially identify him but it is known that
    >> the man is a retired soldier living on Russell Island and it is
    >> unclear why he climbed the steel cantilever bridge near the city
    >> centre.
    >>
    >> "We said very little to him, he did most of the talking, and he gave
    >> every indication that he was in a position to jump from the bridge," a
    >> police spokesman said.
    >>
    >> "He spoke to police negotiators all through the day and finally
    >> decided that he'd had enough and pleaded to be helped down. He seemed
    >> very afraid."
    >>
    >> The man faces charges. He will be interviewed by police after being
    >> assessed at Royal Brisbane Hospital.
    >>
    >> Yesterday his face was shown on evening television news bulletins in a
    >> bid to find somebody who may have known him.
    >>
    >> Police involved in the negotiations were able to identify him only
    >> after issuing the public appeal through the media.
    >>
    >> They also tried to trace relatives or friends in the hope they could
    >> help talk him down.
    >>
    >> One family member arrived at the bridge.
    >>
    >> The man did not show any remorse for putting police rescuers and
    >> negotiators at risk by climbing the bridge to speak him.
    >>
    >> During the drama, one traffic lane 50 metres below where the man was
    >> precariously perched was closed as a safety precaution.

    >
    > SO you think my life is for your pleasure kirkland--- I'll see you in
    > HELL someday you bastard.
    > OBVIOUSLY you have NO concept how crippling ptsd can be, I hope you
    > get to suffer from social impotency too and then we will see just howe
    > funny you find it.
    >
    > how about backing off for a while so I can rebuild my composure, the
    > SO is also giving me the cold shoulder now I hope you are pleased with
    > yourself you filthy stalking grub. I may be mentally crippled but I
    > sure am MORE than capable of tearing you a new asshole - ASSHOLE!




  9. #9
    Ted Guest

    Default Re: News- is this Lucas?


    "Je▀us" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:gmjllr$c3c$[email protected]..
    > On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 01:17:00 +0000, PurpleHaze wrote:
    >
    >> "PeterL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected] .25...
    >>> "Michael \"Dog3\"" <don'[email protected]> wrote in
    >>> news:[email protected]:
    >>>
    >>>> white pelican <[email protected]> news:b2cb5f2b-6c4d-40d9-bb97-
    >>>> [email protected]: in rec.food.cooking
    >>>>
    >>>>> MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    >>>>> down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped the
    >>>>> city.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> He was first spotted at the top of one of the bridge's peaks, 80
    >>>>> metres above the Brisbane River, about 3.30pm yesterday.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The man, believed to be in his 50s, Caucasian with short brown hair
    >>>>> and a fair complexion, allowed officers to help him down about 1.30am
    >>>>> this morning.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Police have refused to officially identify him but it is known that
    >>>>> the man is a retired soldier living on Russell Island and it is
    >>>>> unclear why he climbed the steel cantilever bridge near the city
    >>>>> centre.
    >>>>
    >>>> I certainly hope not. I detest the man but would never wish him any
    >>>> harm.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I feel the same about you.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> You did not list a cite for this story so I'm not sure it's even true
    >>>> or not.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> It's *partially* true. It's an old news story from 3April 2007. You
    >>> see, the
    >>> Vietnam POW fraud kirkland is soooooo obssessed with me, it's tried to
    >>> make
    >>> like the story is about me, because I *used* to live on Russell Island
    >>> years
    >>> ago. You see, it's stuck in a time warp, and it can't move forward
    >>> because it
    >>> doesn't have the know-how, or the information.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...9-3102,00.html
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> I hope this man seeks out the help he appears to need.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> kirkland?? Many, *many* people have told it over many *many* years to
    >>> go seek
    >>> professional help. It hasn't, and it won't because then all it's lies
    >>> and dirty little secrets will be found out.
    >>>
    >>> As in it claiming to be a "tortured POW from Vietnam"...... and the
    >>> fact that
    >>> it's all alone after it's wife has divorced it because of "incidents"
    >>> involving it, and it's grand-kids...... it's a kiddy-fiddler.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> How do you know your so called stalker is Kirkland?

    >
    > He doesnt. He just decided early on that it was - so henceforth it is
    > 'Kirkland'.
    >


    This Lucas is bloody weird.
    This 'kirkland' , if he/she exists, probably doesn't have a clue that Lucas
    is slandering him/her.
    There are plenty of trolls/ stalkers who would get their kicks from stirring
    Lucas.
    His 'self proclaimed' brave soldier imagine and his 'own preoccupation' with
    him doing what is right and avoiding what is wrong makes him an easy mark.



  10. #10
    =?iso-8859-1?b?SmXfdXM=?= Guest

    Default Re: News- is this Lucas?

    On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 01:17:00 +0000, PurpleHaze wrote:

    > "PeterL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] .25...
    >> "Michael \"Dog3\"" <don'[email protected]> wrote in
    >> news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >>> white pelican <[email protected]> news:b2cb5f2b-6c4d-40d9-bb97-
    >>> [email protected]: in rec.food.cooking
    >>>
    >>>> MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    >>>> down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped the
    >>>> city.
    >>>>
    >>>> He was first spotted at the top of one of the bridge's peaks, 80
    >>>> metres above the Brisbane River, about 3.30pm yesterday.
    >>>>
    >>>> The man, believed to be in his 50s, Caucasian with short brown hair
    >>>> and a fair complexion, allowed officers to help him down about 1.30am
    >>>> this morning.
    >>>>
    >>>> Police have refused to officially identify him but it is known that
    >>>> the man is a retired soldier living on Russell Island and it is
    >>>> unclear why he climbed the steel cantilever bridge near the city
    >>>> centre.
    >>>
    >>> I certainly hope not. I detest the man but would never wish him any
    >>> harm.

    >>
    >>
    >> I feel the same about you.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> You did not list a cite for this story so I'm not sure it's even true
    >>> or not.

    >>
    >>
    >> It's *partially* true. It's an old news story from 3April 2007. You
    >> see, the
    >> Vietnam POW fraud kirkland is soooooo obssessed with me, it's tried to
    >> make
    >> like the story is about me, because I *used* to live on Russell Island
    >> years
    >> ago. You see, it's stuck in a time warp, and it can't move forward
    >> because it
    >> doesn't have the know-how, or the information.
    >>
    >> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...9-3102,00.html
    >>
    >>
    >>> I hope this man seeks out the help he appears to need.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> kirkland?? Many, *many* people have told it over many *many* years to
    >> go seek
    >> professional help. It hasn't, and it won't because then all it's lies
    >> and dirty little secrets will be found out.
    >>
    >> As in it claiming to be a "tortured POW from Vietnam"...... and the
    >> fact that
    >> it's all alone after it's wife has divorced it because of "incidents"
    >> involving it, and it's grand-kids...... it's a kiddy-fiddler.
    >>
    >>

    > How do you know your so called stalker is Kirkland?


    He doesnt. He just decided early on that it was - so henceforth it is
    'Kirkland'.



    --
    "Some days we don't let the line move at all. We call those weekdays"
    Patty and Selma Bouvier, 1996

  11. #11
    =?iso-8859-1?b?SmXfdXM=?= Guest

    Default Re: News- is this Lucas?

    On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 06:20:01 +0000, Ted wrote:

    > "Je├čus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:gmjllr$c3c$[email protected]..
    >> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 01:17:00 +0000, PurpleHaze wrote:
    >>
    >>> "PeterL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected] .25...
    >>>> "Michael \"Dog3\"" <don'[email protected]> wrote in
    >>>> news:[email protected]:
    >>>>
    >>>>> white pelican <[email protected]> news:b2cb5f2b-6c4d-40d9-bb97-
    >>>>> [email protected]: in rec.food.cooking
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> MAN who threatened to jump off Brisbane's Story Bridge has climbed
    >>>>>> down to safety after a 9-hour stand-off with police that gripped
    >>>>>> the city.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> He was first spotted at the top of one of the bridge's peaks, 80
    >>>>>> metres above the Brisbane River, about 3.30pm yesterday.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The man, believed to be in his 50s, Caucasian with short brown hair
    >>>>>> and a fair complexion, allowed officers to help him down about
    >>>>>> 1.30am this morning.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Police have refused to officially identify him but it is known that
    >>>>>> the man is a retired soldier living on Russell Island and it is
    >>>>>> unclear why he climbed the steel cantilever bridge near the city
    >>>>>> centre.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I certainly hope not. I detest the man but would never wish him any
    >>>>> harm.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I feel the same about you.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> You did not list a cite for this story so I'm not sure it's even
    >>>>> true or not.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> It's *partially* true. It's an old news story from 3April 2007. You
    >>>> see, the
    >>>> Vietnam POW fraud kirkland is soooooo obssessed with me, it's tried
    >>>> to make
    >>>> like the story is about me, because I *used* to live on Russell
    >>>> Island years
    >>>> ago. You see, it's stuck in a time warp, and it can't move forward
    >>>> because it
    >>>> doesn't have the know-how, or the information.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/

    story/0,23739,21502339-3102,00.html
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> I hope this man seeks out the help he appears to need.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> kirkland?? Many, *many* people have told it over many *many* years to
    >>>> go seek
    >>>> professional help. It hasn't, and it won't because then all it's lies
    >>>> and dirty little secrets will be found out.
    >>>>
    >>>> As in it claiming to be a "tortured POW from Vietnam"...... and the
    >>>> fact that
    >>>> it's all alone after it's wife has divorced it because of "incidents"
    >>>> involving it, and it's grand-kids...... it's a kiddy-fiddler.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> How do you know your so called stalker is Kirkland?

    >>
    >> He doesnt. He just decided early on that it was - so henceforth it is
    >> 'Kirkland'.
    >>
    >>

    > This Lucas is bloody weird.
    > This 'kirkland' , if he/she exists, probably doesn't have a clue that
    > Lucas is slandering him/her.
    > There are plenty of trolls/ stalkers who would get their kicks from
    > stirring Lucas.
    > His 'self proclaimed' brave soldier imagine and his 'own preoccupation'
    > with him doing what is right and avoiding what is wrong makes him an
    > easy mark.



    'Kirkland' did indeed once exist. Apparently he has passed away some time
    ago, although I can't confirm it. But I was quite familiar with his
    Usenet identity and posting habits. One thing is for sure - Kirkland left
    Usenet long ago. How Lucas came to decide that this particular individual
    is 'Kirkland' though is anyone's guess. Mind you, Lucas does has a habit
    of spontaneously switching from blaming one 'nemesis' to another. You'll
    probably see this for yourself if you stick around long enough.



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