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Thread: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

  1. #1
    Mark Thorson Guest

    Default New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    After the scare caused by the severe and often fatal
    lung damage caused by the old butter flavoring diacetyl,
    industry replaced it with 2,3-pentanedione. That's
    almost the same molecule as diacetyl, the latter
    having the alternate name 2,3-butanedione. Basically,
    the new butter flavoring is diacetyl but with a
    two-carbon tail that had been one-carbon. Like duh,
    it causes the same lung damage. Any competent chemist
    would expect that to happen, but it took a while for
    a scientific study to prove it.

    http://www.foodprocessing.com.au/news/55189

    Unfortunately, the new flavoring has ten times less
    flavor so you have to use more of it. Now is not a
    good time to be working in a microwave popcorn factory.

  2. #2
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
    > After the scare caused by the severe and often fatal
    > lung damage caused by the old butter flavoring diacetyl,
    > industry replaced it with 2,3-pentanedione. That's
    > almost the same molecule as diacetyl, the latter
    > having the alternate name 2,3-butanedione. Basically,
    > the new butter flavoring is diacetyl but with a
    > two-carbon tail that had been one-carbon. Like duh,
    > it causes the same lung damage. Any competent chemist
    > would expect that to happen, but it took a while for
    > a scientific study to prove it.
    >
    > http://www.foodprocessing.com.au/news/55189
    >
    > Unfortunately, the new flavoring has ten times less
    > flavor so you have to use more of it. Now is not a
    > good time to be working in a microwave popcorn factory.


    Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the workers
    permanently screwed?



  3. #3
    Bryan Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    On Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:01:21 PM UTC-5, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    > Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > After the scare caused by the severe and often fatal

    >
    > > lung damage caused by the old butter flavoring diacetyl,

    >
    > > industry replaced it with 2,3-pentanedione. That's

    >
    > > almost the same molecule as diacetyl, the latter

    >
    > > having the alternate name 2,3-butanedione. Basically,

    >
    > > the new butter flavoring is diacetyl but with a

    >
    > > two-carbon tail that had been one-carbon. Like duh,

    >
    > > it causes the same lung damage. Any competent chemist

    >
    > > would expect that to happen, but it took a while for

    >
    > > a scientific study to prove it.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > http://www.foodprocessing.com.au/news/55189

    >
    > >

    >
    > > Unfortunately, the new flavoring has ten times less

    >
    > > flavor so you have to use more of it. Now is not a

    >
    > > good time to be working in a microwave popcorn factory.

    >
    >
    >
    > Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the workers
    >
    > permanently screwed?




    The problem is that using the real flavor components of butter won't work in the microwave popcorn application. 4-heptenal, which gives the creamy taste, might burst into flames, and so far no one has put the effort into constructing triglycerides that correctly incorporate butyric acid to mimic that flavor component of butter, and the potential for breakdown of butyric acid containing fats would severely limit the shelf life of microwave popcorn--few consumers are interested in Limburger popcorn. The best way to do microwave popcorn is to get the unflavored, and melt butter onto it, but people are lazy.

    Thank you, Marty, for informing/reminding folks that buying the butter flavored popcorn is unethical, because it exposes workers to unsafe conditions.

    --Bryan

  4. #4
    Mark Thorson Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >
    > Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the workers
    > permanently screwed?


    Not reversible. Permanently screwed.

  5. #5
    Gary Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Mark Thorson wrote:
    >
    > Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    > >
    > > Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the workers
    > > permanently screwed?

    >
    > Not reversible. Permanently screwed.


    One would think though that those employees accepted the job knowing the
    health risks. If it's a dangerous environment they can always quit and get a
    safer job. It's probably a minimun wage job and there are many other options
    for that wage.

    G.

  6. #6
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Mark Thorson wrote:
    >>
    >> Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the
    >>> workers permanently screwed?

    >>
    >> Not reversible. Permanently screwed.

    >
    > One would think though that those employees accepted the job knowing
    > the health risks.


    One would not. One may literally be you only.

    > If it's a dangerous environment they can always
    > quit and get a safer job. It's probably a minimun wage job and there
    > are many other options for that wage.


    You're kidding, right?

    Blaming the victim is starting to become a national pastime.

    MartyB



  7. #7
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >>
    >> Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> If it's a dangerous environment they can always
    >>> quit and get a safer job. It's probably a minimun wage job and there
    >>> are many other options for that wage.

    >>
    >> You're kidding, right?
    >>
    >> Blaming the victim is starting to become a national pastime.

    >
    > Do you want America to lose its competitiveness?
    > There's millions of Chinese who'd love to take
    > those jobs at the microwave popcorn factories.


    I know I want to be part of a competitive industry while hacking up a bloody
    lung.



  8. #8
    Mark Thorson Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >
    > Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > If it's a dangerous environment they can always
    > > quit and get a safer job. It's probably a minimun wage job and there
    > > are many other options for that wage.

    >
    > You're kidding, right?
    >
    > Blaming the victim is starting to become a national pastime.


    Do you want America to lose its competitiveness?
    There's millions of Chinese who'd love to take
    those jobs at the microwave popcorn factories.

  9. #9
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:05:15 -0800, Mark Thorson wrote:

    > Any competent chemist
    > would expect that to happen, but it took a while for
    > a scientific study to prove it.
    >
    > http://www.foodprocessing.com.au/news/55189
    >
    > Unfortunately, the new flavoring has ten times less
    > flavor so you have to use more of it. Now is not a
    > good time to be working in a microwave popcorn factory.


    And any amateur scientist would know better than to use terms like
    "ten times less" when comparing two items.

    -sw

  10. #10
    sf Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:29:53 -0400, Gary <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Mark Thorson wrote:
    > >
    > > Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the workers
    > > > permanently screwed?

    > >
    > > Not reversible. Permanently screwed.

    >
    > One would think though that those employees accepted the job knowing the
    > health risks. If it's a dangerous environment they can always quit and get a
    > safer job. It's probably a minimun wage job and there are many other options
    > for that wage.
    >


    The concept of noblesse oblige is completely dead. People who take
    jobs like that are often uneducated, uninformed and have few (if any)
    alternatives.


    --
    Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

  11. #11
    Tommy Joe Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    On Aug 16, 9:05*pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:

    > Unfortunately, the new flavoring has ten times less
    > flavor so you have to use more of it. *Now is not a
    > good time to be working in a microwave popcorn factory.



    I don't have an air popper and don't care enough to get one, but
    when I make popcorn I try to use the microwave stuff that has as
    little in it other than corn. I micro the stuff - one of those single
    serving bags, about 100 calories, almost no fat - open it and pour it
    into a bowl and then add a half to a whole tablespoon of microwaved
    butter, the real stuff, unsalted. I knew a guy who claims he makes
    his from just the kernels, in a pot, with no oil at all, then adds
    butter. I am not doubting him but hesitate to try it myself - too
    much work.

    Be careful when you're eating popcorn not to laugh and then inhale too
    quickly or you might choke to death,
    TJ

  12. #12
    Tommy Joe Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    On Aug 16, 10:01*pm, "Nunya Bidnits" <nunyabidn...@eternal-
    september.invalid> wrote:

    > Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the workers
    > permanently screwed?




    Everybody is permanently screwed.

    TJ

  13. #13
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Tommy Joe wrote:
    > On Aug 16, 9:05 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
    >
    >> Unfortunately, the new flavoring has ten times less
    >> flavor so you have to use more of it. Now is not a
    >> good time to be working in a microwave popcorn factory.

    >
    >
    > I don't have an air popper and don't care enough to get one, but
    > when I make popcorn I try to use the microwave stuff that has as
    > little in it other than corn. I micro the stuff - one of those single
    > serving bags, about 100 calories, almost no fat - open it and pour it
    > into a bowl and then add a half to a whole tablespoon of microwaved
    > butter, the real stuff, unsalted. I knew a guy who claims he makes
    > his from just the kernels, in a pot, with no oil at all, then adds
    > butter. I am not doubting him but hesitate to try it myself - too
    > much work.
    >
    > Be careful when you're eating popcorn not to laugh and then inhale too
    > quickly or you might choke to death,
    > TJ


    I had an air popper many years ago. Made such a mess! It would throw the
    unpopped kernels into the air and they would pop in the air and then land
    all over the kitchen.

    The popped corn was so dry that if I tried to put butter (I actually only
    used margarine in those days) on it, I would wind up with soggy wet spots.
    Most unpleasant. And salt wouldn't stick to it if I didn't put something on
    it. A coworker directed me to some popcorn oil that we sold and told me
    that she drizzled it over hers. I never tried it as I think I would have
    the same result as with the butter or margarine. I just wound up eating it
    plain which wasn't such a bad thing. And in those days I was very low on
    funds so plain air popped corn was better than no food at all.

    Some years later I discovered the microwave corn poppers. The corn popped
    in them had a slightly different texture than the air popped. Perhaps
    because they were lidded and they allowed some steam to build up. But even
    though the popcorn was ever so slightly damp, the salt still wouldn't stick.
    So I discovered the Weight Watcher's butter spray. There was also some
    store brand that I liked as well. And because it was a spray, it didn't
    leave the wet spots that butter or margarine does. But I found that I was
    using a good half a can on a bowl of popcorn! So...

    I quit doing that and just pop it in a pan now. It's very good that way and
    it's cheap to make.

    Once in a while I buy microwave popcorn for my daughter. It has no oil
    whatever and is organic. Some is salted. Some is not. I also bought her a
    microwave popper but she has never used it. Sometimes she wants to make it
    but she is very disinterested in learning about using the stove. I was just
    the opposite of her. I can remember dragging a chair to the stove so that I
    could stand on it to cook. She does like to do things that involve the use
    of peelers and knives. And she will use the microwave and blender. So she
    can make food. Just doesn't want to cook it.



  14. #14
    Gary Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >
    > Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Mark Thorson wrote:
    > >>
    > >> Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the
    > >>> workers permanently screwed?
    > >>
    > >> Not reversible. Permanently screwed.

    > >
    > > One would think though that those employees accepted the job knowing
    > > the health risks.

    >
    > One would not. One may literally be you only.
    >
    > > If it's a dangerous environment they can always
    > > quit and get a safer job. It's probably a minimun wage job and there
    > > are many other options for that wage.

    >
    > You're kidding, right?
    >
    > Blaming the victim is starting to become a national pastime.


    "Victims" trying to put the blame on someone else is an even bigger national
    pastime.

    I'm not kidding, Marty. See my next post/response to sw.

    Take the woman who sued McDonalds for scalding herself with hot coffee.
    Take the people who have sued cigarette companies for getting lung cancer.
    Here's a better one...the person that gets a DUI while driving home from a
    bar and he sues the bar because the bartender shouldn't have served him that
    last drink.
    You take responsibility for your own actions and quit trying to "MAKE MONEY
    FAST" with frivolous law suits.

    G.


    G.

  15. #15
    Gary Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    sf wrote:
    >
    > On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:29:53 -0400, Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Mark Thorson wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the workers
    > > > > permanently screwed?
    > > >
    > > > Not reversible. Permanently screwed.

    > >
    > > One would think though that those employees accepted the job knowing the
    > > health risks. If it's a dangerous environment they can always quit and get a
    > > safer job. It's probably a minimum wage job and there are many other options
    > > for that wage.
    > >

    >
    > The concept of noblesse oblige is completely dead. People who take
    > jobs like that are often uneducated, uninformed and have few (if any)
    > alternatives.


    First of all, my mistake for only thinking locally. I live in a very
    populated area that supports so many businesses of all kinds. If all you're
    after is a low-paying job (minimum wage or slightly higher), there is
    absolutely no excuse for saying you can't find a job here.

    This is why I've occasionally gone on a rant about worthless people milking
    the unemployment insurance for the full year and won't even look for a job
    until the benefits run out.

    I've lived here for 39 years and before that I grew up in the Washington, DC
    area that has even more opportunities so in my entire lifetime, finding a
    cheap job when you need one is never an issue.

    I tend to forget that much of the US doesn't have what I do. In some towns,
    the local "factory" is the main employer for most of the population. Two
    movies come to mind: "Rudy" and "An Officer and a Gentleman"


    As far as a microwave popcorn factory that might be a major business in the
    area, I still find it odd that there exists a health hazard in the work
    place.

    1) You would think that the company would provide safe work conditions if
    for no other reason than to avoid employee law suits once they find out they
    are sick/damaged. Providing a repirator to these employees would do the job.
    The fairly low cost of respirators would be much more cost effecient than
    dealing with law suits and lawyers down the road.

    2) I would think that the company's liability insurance company would demand
    this for the same reason or threaten to cancel their insurance.

    3) If #1 and #2 didn't do it, one call to OSHA would solve the problem.

    G.

  16. #16
    Gary Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Tommy Joe wrote:
    >
    > On Aug 16, 10:01 pm, "Nunya Bidnits" <nunyabidn...@eternal-
    > september.invalid> wrote:
    >
    > > Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the workers
    > > permanently screwed?

    >
    > Everybody is permanently screwed.


    If you ever ate a carrot, you will die eventually.

    G.

    Speaking of lung damage, my grandfather was a coal miner all his life. Long
    after he retired, they discovered "black lung." He went to the doctor at
    age 77 or so and, yes, he did have black lung disease. They gave him a
    couple more years to live. He ended up dying 20 years later at age 97 and
    not from the black lung thing.

    Gary

  17. #17
    Gary Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Tommy Joe wrote:
    >
    > Be careful when you're eating popcorn not to laugh and then inhale too
    > quickly or you might choke to death,
    > TJ


    And it's really happened too. ;0
    Also my dentist told me once that chewing ice (I never do that), and eating
    popcorn (and biting down on an unpopped kernal) is the usual way that people
    break teeth.

    Gary

  18. #18
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >>
    >> Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> Mark Thorson wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Nunya Bidnits wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the
    >>>>> workers permanently screwed?
    >>>>
    >>>> Not reversible. Permanently screwed.
    >>>
    >>> One would think though that those employees accepted the job knowing
    >>> the health risks.

    >>
    >> One would not. One may literally be you only.
    >>
    >>> If it's a dangerous environment they can always
    >>> quit and get a safer job. It's probably a minimun wage job and there
    >>> are many other options for that wage.

    >>
    >> You're kidding, right?
    >>
    >> Blaming the victim is starting to become a national pastime.

    >
    > "Victims" trying to put the blame on someone else is an even bigger
    > national pastime.
    >
    > I'm not kidding, Marty. See my next post/response to sw.
    >
    > Take the woman who sued McDonalds for scalding herself with hot
    > coffee. Take the people who have sued cigarette companies for getting
    > lung cancer. Here's a better one...the person that gets a DUI while
    > driving home from a bar and he sues the bar because the bartender
    > shouldn't have served him that last drink.
    > You take responsibility for your own actions and quit trying to "MAKE
    > MONEY FAST" with frivolous law suits.
    >


    That's quite a diversion to individual odd and unusual stories which have
    absolutely nothing to do with the average worker. You just try to shift to
    oddities in order to avoid the issue of people being severely harmed by work
    conditions, just so they can feed their families and have a roof. And no,
    jobs are not plentiful as you suggested, nor are hidden hazards disclosed
    and obvious when most workers sign up for work. It's BS. If that is your
    attitude, I sincerely hope you never are in a position to employ anyone.

    MartyB




  19. #19
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Tommy Joe wrote:
    >>
    >> On Aug 16, 10:01 pm, "Nunya Bidnits" <nunyabidn...@eternal-
    >> september.invalid> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Is the lung damage reversible when the exposure stops or are the
    >>> workers permanently screwed?

    >>
    >> Everybody is permanently screwed.

    >
    > If you ever ate a carrot, you will die eventually.


    If you ever ate a turd you might die faster.

    >
    > G.
    >
    > Speaking of lung damage, my grandfather was a coal miner all his
    > life. Long after he retired, they discovered "black lung." He went
    > to the doctor at age 77 or so and, yes, he did have black lung
    > disease. They gave him a couple more years to live. He ended up
    > dying 20 years later at age 97 and not from the black lung thing.
    >


    And what does that prove, mister scientist? Nothing. He is not an analytic
    sample, he is an anomaly.



  20. #20
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: New Butter Flavoring Even Worse Than Old Butter Flavoring

    Sqwertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:05:15 -0800, Mark Thorson wrote:
    >
    >> Any competent chemist
    >> would expect that to happen, but it took a while for
    >> a scientific study to prove it.
    >>
    >> http://www.foodprocessing.com.au/news/55189
    >>
    >> Unfortunately, the new flavoring has ten times less
    >> flavor so you have to use more of it. Now is not a
    >> good time to be working in a microwave popcorn factory.

    >
    > And any amateur scientist would know better than to use terms like
    > "ten times less" when comparing two items.
    >
    > -sw


    +1



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