Thread: Morning biskies

notbob wrote:
> It's my plan to start every morning with Southern buttermilk biscuits.
> This, essentially as an excuse to get up and turn on the oven and warm
> the freezing house. I also had Smucker's ship two 5lb bags of White
> Lily (WL) flour for precisely this purpose. So far, it's not been going
> well.
>
> Yesterday was a total flop, I having had too wet a dough and then
> accidently dumping in too much flour on top. All went in the trash.
> This morning, right in the middle of assembly, my attention was
> diverted by my jes rising mom traipsing bare-assed around the house
> whining "I have no pants." In the chaos, I forgot to add lemon juice
> to my plain milk, negating the full effect of the leavening.
> grrrr.....
>
> Here's a question: Why do all Southern buttermilk biscuit recipes
> --except WL-- also call for baking soda?
>
> I also didn't add the full 2/3-3/4 C of milk of the WL recipe, so not
> only were the biscuits not properly leavened, they were a tad too dry
> and crumbly. This cuz I once saw a video on Southern biscuits that
> vehemently stressed adding only enough liquid so the dough "just comes
> together". Well, it came together with a tad less than 2/3 C.
> Another myth despoiled.
>
> Oh well .....with 10 lbs flour, I'll learn. Tomorrow morning promises
> to be jes as cold.
>
> nb
>



I went thru a similar exercise last year. Didn't stick with it, but I
did get pretty good at it after a couple of tries.

The "just comes together" part is for pie crust, not biscuits. Don't
believe everything you see on a youtube instructional video. If you
really want to cringe, search YT for "woodford reserve mint julep". (At
least she has nice boobs) You want biscuit dough as wet as you can
still work it.

Did you get WL self-risin' flour, or their all-purpose?

And get some proper buttermilk. ;-)

Bob

On 2012-10-09, zxcvbob <[email protected]> wrote:

> Did you get WL self-risin' flour, or their all-purpose?

All-purpose. I may get self-rising next time, as it would make it
easier to cut the recipe in half.

> And get some proper buttermilk. ;-)

I think you are right, bob. Next trip to the store.

I have an unopened tin of that powdered buttermilk stuff, but it's been
in the back of the fridge so long, I suspect it's become a character
in a Harry Potter book.

nb

--
Definition of objectivism:
"Eff you! I got mine."
http://www.nongmoproject.org/

On 9 Oct 2012 17:05:37 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2012-10-09, zxcvbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Did you get WL self-risin' flour, or their all-purpose?
>
>All-purpose. I may get self-rising next time, as it would make it
>easier to cut the recipe in half.
>
>> And get some proper buttermilk. ;-)
>
>I think you are right, bob. Next trip to the store.
>
>I have an unopened tin of that powdered buttermilk stuff, but it's been
>in the back of the fridge so long, I suspect it's become a character
>in a Harry Potter book.
>
>nb
The buttermilk powder is good for one year "a
after" opening it. Look at the date on the container for the date and
see if it is still within use by date.
I use the buttermilk powder all the time rather than keep buttermilk
in the house. I don't do the lemon juice or vinegar thing.
Janet US

On 10/9/2012 5:42 AM, notbob wrote:
> It's my plan to start every morning with Southern buttermilk biscuits.
> This, essentially as an excuse to get up and turn on the oven and warm
> the freezing house. I also had Smucker's ship two 5lb bags of White
> Lily (WL) flour for precisely this purpose. So far, it's not been going
> well.
>
> Yesterday was a total flop, I having had too wet a dough and then
> accidently dumping in too much flour on top. All went in the trash.
> This morning, right in the middle of assembly, my attention was
> diverted by my jes rising mom traipsing bare-assed around the house
> whining "I have no pants." In the chaos, I forgot to add lemon juice
> to my plain milk, negating the full effect of the leavening.
> grrrr.....
>
> Here's a question: Why do all Southern buttermilk biscuit recipes
> --except WL-- also call for baking soda?

It's some kind of traditional thing. You don't need baking soda. I make
biscuits with milk and don't add soda. If I use buttermilk I'd feel
obliged to add some baking soda for some unknown reason.

>
> I also didn't add the full 2/3-3/4 C of milk of the WL recipe, so not
> only were the biscuits not properly leavened, they were a tad too dry
> and crumbly. This cuz I once saw a video on Southern biscuits that
> vehemently stressed adding only enough liquid so the dough "just comes
> together". Well, it came together with a tad less than 2/3 C.
> Another myth despoiled.

Learn how to add the milk by eye. You'll get better results because you
compensate for all the conditions. I'll also eyeball the flour and the
grease. You should be able to put together a batch of biscuits quite
rapidly once you get the hang of it.

>
> Oh well .....with 10 lbs flour, I'll learn. Tomorrow morning promises
> to be jes as cold.
>
> nb
>

On Oct 9, 8:42*am, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
> It's my plan to start every morning with Southern buttermilk biscuits.
> This, essentially as an excuse to get up and turn on the oven and warm
> the freezing house. *I also had Smucker's ship two 5lb bags of White
> Lily (WL) flour for precisely this purpose. *So far, it's not been going
> well.
>
> Yesterday was a total flop, I having had too wet a dough and then
> accidently dumping in too much flour on top. *All went in the trash.
> This morning, right in the middle of assembly, my attention was
> diverted by my jes rising mom traipsing bare-assed around the house
> whining "I have no pants." *In the chaos, I forgot to add lemon juice
> to my plain milk, negating the full effect of the leavening.
> grrrr.....
>
> Here's a question: Why do all Southern buttermilk biscuit recipes
> --except WL-- also call for baking soda?
>
> I also didn't add the full 2/3-3/4 C of milk of the WL recipe, so not
> only were the biscuits not properly leavened, they were a tad too dry
> and crumbly. *This cuz I once saw a video on Southern biscuits that
> vehemently stressed adding only enough liquid so the dough "just comes
> together". *Well, it came together with a tad less than 2/3 C.
> Another myth despoiled.
>
> Oh well .....with 10 lbs flour, I'll learn. *Tomorrow morning promises
> to be jes as cold. *
>
> nb
>
> --
> Definition of objectivism:
> "Eff you! *I got mine."http://www.nongmoproject.org/

The recipe I use calls for baking powder- no soda...

On 9 Oct 2012 15:42:08 GMT, notbob wrote:

> In the chaos, I forgot to add lemon juice
> to my plain milk, negating the full effect of the leavening.
> grrrr.....
>
> Here's a question: Why do all Southern buttermilk biscuit recipes
> --except WL-- also call for baking soda?

There ya go - you knew the answer all along - the baking soda is
additional/slightly different leavener that reacts with the slightly
acidic buttermilk.

The baking soda and buttermilk give the initial rise, while neutralising
the acid in the buttermilk, so the second rise (in the heat of the oven,
during baking) from the baking powder is more effective. If you leave
out the baking soda, the acid in the buttermilk will react with the
baking powder prior to baking, giving less lift in the oven, aka wannabe
hockeypucks.

Call me a heathen, but I don't think buttermilk biscuits are worth the
effort. Plain milk and baking powder are good enough here.


--
"I jotted down three names: Julia Child, Mr. Wizard and Monty Python"
A. Brown

On 9-Oct-2012, dsi1 <[email protected]> wrote:

> >
> > Here's a question: Why do all Southern buttermilk biscuit recipes
> > --except WL-- also call for baking soda?
>
> It's some kind of traditional thing. You don't need baking soda. I make
> biscuits with milk and don't add soda. If I use buttermilk I'd feel
> obliged to add some baking soda for some unknown reason.

Buttermilk is acidic; the soda neutralizes the acid and provides initial
leavening. Baking powder provides additional leavening as the biscuits
heat.
--

Change Cujo to Juno in email address.

notbob wrote:

> Here's a question: Why do all Southern buttermilk biscuit recipes
> --except WL-- also call for baking soda?

That's so Granny doesn't get heartburn.

On 10/9/2012 8:06 AM, l, not -l wrote:
> On 9-Oct-2012, dsi1 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Here's a question: Why do all Southern buttermilk biscuit recipes
>>> --except WL-- also call for baking soda?
>>
>> It's some kind of traditional thing. You don't need baking soda. I make
>> biscuits with milk and don't add soda. If I use buttermilk I'd feel
>> obliged to add some baking soda for some unknown reason.
>
> Buttermilk is acidic; the soda neutralizes the acid and provides initial
> leavening. Baking powder provides additional leavening as the biscuits
> heat.

So what would happen if you made buttermilk biscuits without adding
soda? My guess is nothing. I don't have any buttermilk so I guess it
will have to remain a guess. :-)

On Oct 9, 10:42*am, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>
> It's my plan to start every morning with Southern buttermilk biscuits.
> This, essentially as an excuse to get up and turn on the oven and warm
> the freezing house. *I also had Smucker's ship two 5lb bags of White
> Lily (WL) flour for precisely this purpose. *So far, it's not been going
> well.
>
>
Just for the heck of it, when you've used all your White Lily flour,
try Martha White flour next time.

On 9 Oct 2012 15:42:08 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:

>It's my plan to start every morning with Southern buttermilk biscuits.
>This, essentially as an excuse to get up and turn on the oven and warm
>the freezing house. I also had Smucker's ship two 5lb bags of White
>Lily (WL) flour for precisely this purpose. So far, it's not been going
>well.

A few things.

White Lily Flour doesn't really work well for biscuits at high
altitudes. It has too low a protein level to support the structure
needed to keep biscuits and other things from falling. Unfortunately,
your biscuits will do better with a regular all purpose flour in this
instance.

Another thing-the leavening will have to be adjusted for your
altitude. The regular amount of leavening can cause biscuits and
other thing to rise then fall spectacularly.

And if the climate is dry, as it is where you are, you will need more
liquid.

There is a nice book out called Pie in The Sky, about baking at high
altitude. Maybe you can find it at the library, or order it. I
finally was able to master making biscuits at my altitude, by using
this. Same with other things.


Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com

On 9 Oct 2012 15:42:08 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:

>Here's a question: Why do all Southern buttermilk biscuit recipes
>--except WL-- also call for baking soda?

Not all of them do.
For you, it will depend on your altitude. For my altitude, I have to
skip the baking soda...or they don't rise right.

Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:03:31 -0500, zxcvbob <[email protected]>
wrote:


>
>Is 1200 feet high altitude? (I wouldn't think so, but it's a lot higher
>than the 80' elevation where I used to live.) I never considered that...
>
>Bob

No, we are talking about 3000 and above. I live at 6500 feet and
notbob lives even higher, I think.

The air pressure is lower at these altitudes..and a flimsy structure
won't support rising as we know it at lower altitudes. Hence the
need for more protein. And because of the lower air pressure, things
rise faster, and fall just as spectatularly with the regular amount of
leavening. Hence the need to adjust it, usually to a lower amount.
For my altitude, I do better with using less baking powder and
skipping the baking soda.

There are very few recipes that I haven't had to adjust to work at my
altitude. Most regular cooking just takes longer..and sometimes a
higher heat. Baking is it's own little category in this regard, and
I think a good reference book is best here. The one I mentioned
earlier is tops in this regard... I can use my own recipes, but only
if I modify them for this altitude....and using the guidelines in that
book.

And modify them for the lower humidity in this region...everything
seems to take a lot more liquid.

Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com

On Oct 9, 11:39*am, "itsjoannotjo...@webtv.net"
<itsjoannotjo...@webtv.net> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 10:42*am, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>
> > It's my plan to start every morning with Southern buttermilk biscuits.
> > This, essentially as an excuse to get up and turn on the oven and warm
> > the freezing house. *I also had Smucker's ship two 5lb bags of White
> > Lily (WL) flour for precisely this purpose. *So far, it's not been going
> > well.
>
> Just for the heck of it, when you've used all your White Lily flour,
> try Martha White flour next time.

In my family Martha White Self Rising Flour was what we made biscuits
out of.
They were fabulous.

On 2012-10-09, ImStillMags <[email protected]> wrote:

> In my family Martha White Self Rising Flour was what we made biscuits
> out of.

They usta be different, but now both are owned by Smuckers. I doubt
there's any difference between the two, anymore, other than the name.
They are both soft winter wheat flours and not sold retail West of the
Mississippi, except by mail order.

If Chris is right, I jes wasted $20.

nb

--
Definition of objectivism:
"Eff you! I got mine."
http://www.nongmoproject.org/

On 9 Oct 2012 20:12:33 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:


>If Chris is right, I jes wasted $20.
>
>nb

Try it with the other modifications... However you do need to
compensate for the higher altitude. If it works out okay, let me
know. I just know you have to take the characteristics of high
altitude and it's effect on baking into consideration. I would be
delighted if WL works...I have some here that has been languishing.

I would try myself, but I am barely doing any cooking right now.
Starting to do a tiny bit more, as my energy level allows. Still
mostly living on my freezer stash that I cooked before surgery.

Christine

--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com

On 09/10/2012 1:52 PM, merryb wrote:
ther myth despoiled.
>>
>> Oh well .....with 10 lbs flour, I'll learn. Tomorrow morning promises
>> to be jes as cold.
>>
>> nb
>>
>> --
>> Definition of objectivism:
>> "Eff you! I got mine."http://www.nongmoproject.org/
>
> The recipe I use calls for baking powder- no soda...
>

With buttermilk? Any recipe I have used with buttermilk called for
baking soda. Baking soda is usually used when there is is acid pr fruit
in the recipe.

On 9-Oct-2012, dsi1 <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 10/9/2012 8:06 AM, l, not -l wrote:
> > On 9-Oct-2012, dsi1 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> Here's a question: Why do all Southern buttermilk biscuit recipes
> >>> --except WL-- also call for baking soda?
> >>
> >> It's some kind of traditional thing. You don't need baking soda. I make
> >> biscuits with milk and don't add soda. If I use buttermilk I'd feel
> >> obliged to add some baking soda for some unknown reason.
> >
> > Buttermilk is acidic; the soda neutralizes the acid and provides initial
> > leavening. Baking powder provides additional leavening as the biscuits
> > heat.
>
> So what would happen if you made buttermilk biscuits without adding
> soda? My guess is nothing. I don't have any buttermilk so I guess it
> will have to remain a guess. :-)

As she approached 90, my dearly departed mother occasionally would forget an
ingredient or two in recipes she had made all her life. When she would
forget to add the soda to her buttermilk biscuit dough, they were noticeably
shorter/thinner, but just as tasty.
--

Change Cujo to Juno in email address.

On 9-Oct-2012, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2012-10-09, ImStillMags <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In my family Martha White Self Rising Flour was what we made biscuits
> > out of.
>
> They usta be different, but now both are owned by Smuckers. I doubt
> there's any difference between the two, anymore, other than the name.
> They are both soft winter wheat flours and not sold retail West of the
> Mississippi, except by mail order.
While White Lily may not be available too far west of the Mississippi, it
does cross it and can be found in some St. Louis supermarkets.
--

Change Cujo to Juno in email address.