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Thread: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

  1. #1
    Lenona Guest

    Default Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    Found this.

    Lenona.

    http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationshi...entid=27656377

    Dear Miss Manners,
    Who should get the check? My question is in regards to the etiquette
    of getting the check at the end of the meal. I was raised that if it
    was not made very clear at the beginning (such as "don't worry we are
    taking you out"), to always make an effort to pay. My parents taught
    me it is polite to put up a little "argument over it," and I have
    always tried to do this when I have the opportunity; whether it is
    simply paying for myself or picking up the entire check.

    My husband believes if you are out with someone a little more well off
    you should simply take their offer, no argument.

    I feel like this is rude, but my problem is that I am just out of
    college and recently married. I can't necessarily follow through with
    the "argument" if I win. We see our parents on a pretty regular basis,
    and so tend to eat out with them frequently. The informality of these
    dinners means that no one specifies who pays for whom. Should dinners
    like these be understood as just dutch, or is it okay to simply accept
    as soon as they reach for the bill?

    Gentle Reader,
    Your husband's theory that those with more money should subsidize the
    entertaining of those with less is doomed. Miss Manners promises you
    that eventually, the perpetual hosts will feel that they are valued
    only for their ability to pick up the bill.

    Yes, sometimes even parents. The long habit of paying for their
    children often remains; many parents prefer to continue to do so and
    will make sure they win any such polite arguments as you mention. But
    even they will be flattered if you occasionally make a point of
    issuing a clear invitation at which you are the hosts -- at a place
    that you can afford.

  2. #2
    itsjoannotjoann Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    On Feb 13, 3:22*pm, Lenona <lenona...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > Found this.
    >
    > Lenona.
    >
    > http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationshi...documentid=276....
    >
    > Dear Miss Manners,
    > Who should get the check? My question is in regards to the etiquette
    > of getting the check at the end of the meal. I was raised that if it
    > was not made very clear at the beginning (such as "don't worry we are
    > taking you out"), to always make an effort to pay. My parents taught
    > me it is polite to put up a little "argument over it," and I have
    > always tried to do this when I have the opportunity; whether it is
    > simply paying for myself or picking up the entire check.
    >
    > My husband believes if you are out with someone a little more well off
    > you should simply take their offer, no argument.
    >
    > I feel like this is rude, but my problem is that I am just out of
    > college and recently married. I can't necessarily follow through with
    > the "argument" if I win. We see our parents on a pretty regular basis,
    > and so tend to eat out with them frequently. The informality of these
    > dinners means that no one specifies who pays for whom. Should dinners
    > like these be understood as just dutch, or is it okay to simply accept
    > as soon as they reach for the bill?
    >
    > Gentle Reader,
    > Your husband's theory that those with more money should subsidize the
    > entertaining of those with less is doomed. Miss Manners promises you
    > that eventually, the perpetual hosts will feel that they are valued
    > only for their ability to pick up the bill.
    >
    > Yes, sometimes even parents. The long habit of paying for their
    > children often remains; many parents prefer to continue to do so and
    > will make sure they win any such polite arguments as you mention. But
    > even they will be flattered if you occasionally make a point of
    > issuing a clear invitation at which you are the hosts -- at a place
    > that you can afford.


    >
    >

    *Sigh* Do you have the hots for Miss Manners???

  3. #3
    Ed Pawlowski Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    ?
    "Lenona" <[email protected]> wrote
    > http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationshi...entid=27656377
    >
    > Dear Miss Manners,
    > Who should get the check? My question is in regards to the etiquette
    > of getting the check at the end of the meal. I was raised that if it
    > was not made very clear at the beginning (such as "don't worry we are
    > taking you out"), to always make an effort to pay.


    > Gentle Reader,
    > Yes, sometimes even parents. The long habit of paying for their
    > children often remains; many parents prefer to continue to do so and
    > will make sure they win any such polite arguments as you mention. But
    > even they will be flattered if you occasionally make a point of
    > issuing a clear invitation at which you are the hosts -- at a place
    > that you can afford.


    If I invite you as my guest, I pay
    If you invite me as your guest, you pay
    If friends say "do you want to go out to eat", we split it

    As for paying for (adult) children, it pretty much applies the same way but
    can change with their finances. My son always pays though (his choice) and
    can easily afford it.




  4. #4
    sf Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:22:19 -0800 (PST), Lenona <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Yes, sometimes even parents. The long habit of paying for their
    > children often remains; many parents prefer to continue to do so and
    > will make sure they win any such polite arguments as you mention. But
    > even they will be flattered if you occasionally make a point of
    > issuing a clear invitation at which you are the hosts -- at a place
    > that you can afford.


    How true! It's especially nice when parents are retired and their
    children have eclipsed their pre-retirement salaries. I'll let my
    kids can pay for me any time. They can afford it.

    --

    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

  5. #5
    Janet Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...
    >
    > On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:22:19 -0800 (PST), Lenona <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Yes, sometimes even parents. The long habit of paying for their
    > > children often remains; many parents prefer to continue to do so and
    > > will make sure they win any such polite arguments as you mention. But
    > > even they will be flattered if you occasionally make a point of
    > > issuing a clear invitation at which you are the hosts -- at a place
    > > that you can afford.

    >
    > How true! It's especially nice when parents are retired and their
    > children have eclipsed their pre-retirement salaries. I'll let my
    > kids can pay for me any time. They can afford it.


    :-) It gives them so much pleasure to arrange outings and surprises,
    for us, give us their professional advice etc.

    Ours regarded it as a kind of right of passage into equal-adulthood; the
    first time each one reached for the bill and said "This is on me".


    Janet.

  6. #6
    jmcquown Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"


    "itsjoannotjoann" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > On Feb 13, 3:22 pm, Lenona <lenona...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >> Found this.
    >>
    >> Lenona.
    >>
    >> http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationshi...documentid=276...
    >>
    >> Dear Miss Manners,
    >> Who should get the check? My question is in regards to the etiquette
    >> of getting the check at the end of the meal. I was raised that if it
    >> was not made very clear at the beginning (such as "don't worry we are
    >> taking you out"), to always make an effort to pay. My parents taught
    >> me it is polite to put up a little "argument over it," and I have
    >> always tried to do this when I have the opportunity; whether it is
    >> simply paying for myself or picking up the entire check.
    >>
    >> My husband believes if you are out with someone a little more well off
    >> you should simply take their offer, no argument.
    >>

    (How would you know if you're out with someone a little more well off?)

    I agree with Ed. If I invite you, it's my treat. If you invite me, I
    expect you to pay. But the ground rules really should be set down in
    advance. For example, I took care of my neighbor's cats when she was gone
    for two weeks. When she got back she said, "Let me take you to lunch."
    That's clear-cut, well defined. She paid for lunch. When she drove me and
    my cat to Charleston so my cat could undergo a medical procedure I made it
    clear I was paying for the gas AND taking her to lunch. Again, clear-cut.

    As for parents paying for adult children's meals or vice versa, we weren't
    really a go out to dinner family. But I don't recall my parents ever
    turning down one of us offering to pay the check.

    Jill


  7. #7
    Lenona Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    On Feb 14, 10:29*am, "jmcquown" <j_mcqu...@comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    > I agree with Ed. *If I invite you, it's my treat. *If you invite me, I
    > expect you to pay. *But the ground rules really should be set down in
    > advance. *For example, I took care of my neighbor's cats when she was gone
    > for two weeks. *When she got back she said, "Let me take you to lunch."
    > That's clear-cut, well defined. *She paid for lunch. *When she drove me and
    > my cat to Charleston so my cat could undergo a medical procedure I made it
    > clear I was paying for the gas AND taking her to lunch. *Again, clear-cut.



    If only everyone would do that..........

    From a hotheaded male at Glennsacks.com (the site, which is mainly
    about the rights of divorced fathers, has changed drastically and you
    can't find comments there anymore, so I'm guessing the audience has
    shifted to www.fathersandfamilies.org )

    "This all has very little to do with money. Neither does it have
    anything to do with fancy-shmancy arguments. It's really quite simple.
    If I'm sitting across the table from a woman who touts her grrrlll
    power during a date, and then when the check comes, she runs for the
    women's room or hides her head in the sand, I know she's full of
    S__t.

    "She's a con artist and a liar. Why? Because she claims to be one
    thing, then acts like another thing.

    "THE MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE.
    "I'll say it again:
    "THE MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE.

    "The issue, for me at least, is CHARACTER AND INTEGRITY. It's about
    someone saying 'This is what I am,' and then acting that way."

    (end)

    He may have a point, assuming he didn't formally ask her out, but he's
    clearly missing the obvious - that it only makes sense to determine in
    ADVANCE who's going to be paying for what, to avoid AWKWARDNESS. Seems
    to me, when you're a man "invited" by a woman, it's as easy as saying:
    "Sounds nice. Are we going Dutch?" (Few women, I hope, would splutter
    and say: "I thought YOU would pay for ME.") If you don't want to go
    Dutch, you can say: "Sounds nice, but I'm afraid we'll have to go out
    some other time - I'm saving money for X." Then, at least, the woman
    is free to say "no, I mean I want to treat you to lunch." IF she means
    that.

    MM once said in a 1980s book(?) that when a woman who is not a hooker
    goes around trying to get men to buy drinks for her, one repsonse from
    the men could be: "And here I was hoping you'd buy me
    one."

    Lenona.

  8. #8
    Nancy Young Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    Lenona wrote:

    > From a hotheaded male at Glennsacks.com (the site, which is mainly
    > about the rights of divorced fathers, has changed drastically and you
    > can't find comments there anymore, so I'm guessing the audience has
    > shifted to www.fathersandfamilies.org )
    >
    > "This all has very little to do with money. Neither does it have
    > anything to do with fancy-shmancy arguments. It's really quite simple.
    > If I'm sitting across the table from a woman who touts her grrrlll
    > power during a date, and then when the check comes, she runs for the
    > women's room or hides her head in the sand, I know she's full of
    > S__t.
    >
    > "She's a con artist and a liar. Why? Because she claims to be one
    > thing, then acts like another thing.


    Boy, women must be lining up to date a charmer like him. If you are
    going to begrudge taking me out for dinner, don't ask me. It's that
    simple. I am not someone who feels comfortable not paying my
    way, and I have insulted guys by offering to chip in for the check,
    but if we're on our first date and you're looking hard at me to see
    how I act when the bill comes, I'd rather stay home. We have no
    long term prospects anyway, because that kind of attitude isn't
    for me.

    nancy

  9. #9
    Lenona Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    On Feb 14, 12:19*pm, "Nancy Young" <rjynly...@nospamcomcast.net>
    wrote:

    > Boy, women must be lining up to date a charmer like him. *If you are
    > going to begrudge taking me out for dinner, don't ask me. *It's that
    > simple. *I am not someone who feels comfortable not paying my
    > way, and I have insulted guys by offering to chip in for the check,
    > but if we're on our first date and you're looking hard at me to see
    > how I act when the bill comes, I'd rather stay home. *We have no
    > long term prospects anyway, because that kind of attitude isn't
    > for me.



    Yes, well, as I implied, chances are he's under the impression that,
    even if you do the (vague) inviting, it's ALWAYS supposed to be a
    Dutch date unless you say, early on, that it isn't. A lot of "hosts,"
    both male and female, mistakenly make that assumption.

    Of course, if she's the one who made the suggestion that they go out
    to eat but now is acting as though he should pay for ALL of it, that's
    clearly a lot worse.

    Another thing to wonder about is: If she's such a take-charge,
    braggart type as he describes, how hard would it have been for her to
    ask, early on, whether he was treating her or not?

    Lenona.

  10. #10
    sf Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:07:01 -0800 (PST), Lenona <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Of course, if she's the one who made the suggestion that they go out
    > to eat but now is acting as though he should pay for ALL of it, that's
    > clearly a lot worse.
    >
    > Another thing to wonder about is: If she's such a take-charge,
    > braggart type as he describes, how hard would it have been for her to
    > ask, early on, whether he was treating her or not?


    It's pretty simple. Pay for dinner and don't go out with her again.

    --

    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

  11. #11
    Dora Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    Lenona wrote:
    > On Feb 14, 12:19 pm, "Nancy Young" <rjynly...@nospamcomcast.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Boy, women must be lining up to date a charmer like him. If you are
    >> going to begrudge taking me out for dinner, don't ask me. It's that
    >> simple. I am not someone who feels comfortable not paying my
    >> way, and I have insulted guys by offering to chip in for the check,
    >> but if we're on our first date and you're looking hard at me to see
    >> how I act when the bill comes, I'd rather stay home. We have no
    >> long term prospects anyway, because that kind of attitude isn't
    >> for me.

    >
    >
    > Yes, well, as I implied, chances are he's under the impression that,
    > even if you do the (vague) inviting, it's ALWAYS supposed to be a
    > Dutch date unless you say, early on, that it isn't. A lot of
    > "hosts,"
    > both male and female, mistakenly make that assumption.
    >
    > Of course, if she's the one who made the suggestion that they go out
    > to eat but now is acting as though he should pay for ALL of it,
    > that's
    > clearly a lot worse.
    >
    > Another thing to wonder about is: If she's such a take-charge,
    > braggart type as he describes, how hard would it have been for her
    > to
    > ask, early on, whether he was treating her or not?
    >
    > Lenona.


    I'm with Nancy all the way on this one. If I were on a first date and
    was invited to dinner, I would expect him to pay. If I knew the
    person well strictly as a friend, I'd have no hesitation in saying,
    "Fine but let's go Dutch". If he'd taken me out quite a few times,
    I'd say (and have said), "This is my treat".
    That way, I can keep my independence and live with myself.

    Dora


  12. #12
    Kate Connally Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    On 2/13/2011 4:22 PM, Lenona wrote:
    > Found this.
    >
    > Lenona.
    >
    > http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationshi...entid=27656377
    >
    > Dear Miss Manners,
    > Who should get the check? My question is in regards to the etiquette
    > of getting the check at the end of the meal. I was raised that if it
    > was not made very clear at the beginning (such as "don't worry we are
    > taking you out"), to always make an effort to pay. My parents taught
    > me it is polite to put up a little "argument over it," and I have
    > always tried to do this when I have the opportunity; whether it is
    > simply paying for myself or picking up the entire check.
    >
    > My husband believes if you are out with someone a little more well off
    > you should simply take their offer, no argument.
    >
    > I feel like this is rude, but my problem is that I am just out of
    > college and recently married. I can't necessarily follow through with
    > the "argument" if I win. We see our parents on a pretty regular basis,
    > and so tend to eat out with them frequently. The informality of these
    > dinners means that no one specifies who pays for whom. Should dinners
    > like these be understood as just dutch, or is it okay to simply accept
    > as soon as they reach for the bill?
    >
    > Gentle Reader,
    > Your husband's theory that those with more money should subsidize the
    > entertaining of those with less is doomed. Miss Manners promises you
    > that eventually, the perpetual hosts will feel that they are valued
    > only for their ability to pick up the bill.
    >
    > Yes, sometimes even parents. The long habit of paying for their
    > children often remains; many parents prefer to continue to do so and
    > will make sure they win any such polite arguments as you mention. But
    > even they will be flattered if you occasionally make a point of
    > issuing a clear invitation at which you are the hosts -- at a place
    > that you can afford.


    It seems to me that is the dinner/lunch is suggested in the following
    manner it is dutch - "How about getting together for lunch on Tuesday?"
    or "Would you like to go out for dinner next Saturday?" or something
    like that.

    But if you say "I'd like to take you out to dinner on Friday." or if
    someone sayst that to you, that means the person doing the inviting is
    paying.

    If you do go on a supposed "dutch" either party may decide that they
    want to pay for the other and say, "That's okay, I'll get the check."
    or something to that effect.

    I think that's very straight forward. Just because one person
    "suggests" the meal doesn't mean they are offering to pay. It's when
    they say "Let me take you to dinner." that they are offering to pay.

    Kate

    --
    Kate Connally
    If I were as old as I feel, Id be dead already.
    Goldfish: The wholesome snack that smiles back,
    Until you bite their heads off.
    What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?
    mailto:[email protected]

  13. #13
    sf Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:15:15 -0500, Kate Connally
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I think that's very straight forward. Just because one person
    > "suggests" the meal doesn't mean they are offering to pay. It's when
    > they say "Let me take you to dinner." that they are offering to pay.


    I think only people who don't get out much are confused by the
    language.

    --

    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

  14. #14
    Kswck Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"


    "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > ?
    > "Lenona" <[email protected]> wrote
    >> http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationshi...entid=27656377
    >>
    >> Dear Miss Manners,
    >> Who should get the check? My question is in regards to the etiquette
    >> of getting the check at the end of the meal. I was raised that if it
    >> was not made very clear at the beginning (such as "don't worry we are
    >> taking you out"), to always make an effort to pay.

    >
    >> Gentle Reader,
    >> Yes, sometimes even parents. The long habit of paying for their
    >> children often remains; many parents prefer to continue to do so and
    >> will make sure they win any such polite arguments as you mention. But
    >> even they will be flattered if you occasionally make a point of
    >> issuing a clear invitation at which you are the hosts -- at a place
    >> that you can afford.

    >
    > If I invite you as my guest, I pay
    > If you invite me as your guest, you pay
    > If friends say "do you want to go out to eat", we split it
    >
    > As for paying for (adult) children, it pretty much applies the same way
    > but can change with their finances. My son always pays though (his
    > choice) and can easily afford it.
    >
    >
    >


    And if it is a date and he 'lets' you see what he is paying-he wants
    something more than just dinner.




  15. #15
    Goomba Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    Lenona wrote:

    > Another thing to wonder about is: If she's such a take-charge,
    > braggart type as he describes, how hard would it have been for her to
    > ask, early on, whether he was treating her or not?
    >
    > Lenona.


    How exactly would you word that??

  16. #16
    L G Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    jmcquown wrote:
    >
    > "itsjoannotjoann" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]..
    >> On Feb 13, 3:22 pm, Lenona <lenona...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>> Found this.
    >>>
    >>> Lenona.
    >>>
    >>> http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationshi...documentid=276...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Dear Miss Manners,
    >>> Who should get the check? My question is in regards to the etiquette
    >>> of getting the check at the end of the meal. I was raised that if it
    >>> was not made very clear at the beginning (such as "don't worry we are
    >>> taking you out"), to always make an effort to pay. My parents taught
    >>> me it is polite to put up a little "argument over it," and I have
    >>> always tried to do this when I have the opportunity; whether it is
    >>> simply paying for myself or picking up the entire check.
    >>>
    >>> My husband believes if you are out with someone a little more well off
    >>> you should simply take their offer, no argument.
    >>>

    > (How would you know if you're out with someone a little more well off?)
    >
    > I agree with Ed. If I invite you, it's my treat. If you invite me, I
    > expect you to pay. But the ground rules really should be set down in
    > advance. For example, I took care of my neighbor's cats when she was
    > gone for two weeks. When she got back she said, "Let me take you to
    > lunch." That's clear-cut, well defined. She paid for lunch. When she
    > drove me and my cat to Charleston so my cat could undergo a medical
    > procedure I made it clear I was paying for the gas AND taking her to
    > lunch. Again, clear-cut.
    >
    > As for parents paying for adult children's meals or vice versa, we
    > weren't really a go out to dinner family. But I don't recall my
    > parents ever turning down one of us offering to pay the check.
    >
    > Jill

    Did your POS car finally bite the dust?

  17. #17
    Kalmia Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"



    Why are people so afraid to utter the D word PRIOR to entering the
    resto? I make no qualms about making it clear that it's a Dutch deal.

    Thing that kills ME is acquaintances who enter a resto, spy you,
    plunk down at your table, barely cover their meals, then bolt. I've
    gotten stuck picking up the tax and tip for these types a few times.


  18. #18
    M. JL Esq. Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    Goomba wrote:

    > Lenona wrote:
    >
    >> Another thing to wonder about is: If she's such a take-charge,
    >> braggart type as he describes, how hard would it have been for her to
    >> ask, early on, whether he was treating her or not?
    >>
    >> Lenona.

    >
    >
    > How exactly would you word that??


    If i invite some one to dine or even eat with me in advance, r.s.v.p. or
    spur of the moment, i presume it is understood that i am providing or
    paying for the food (or at least offering to do so), if i am asked i
    assume the same, that the person who asks me is taking responsibility
    for any payment. However, due to my experience of life, i never go
    into a restaurant with out the means to pay for anything i might consume
    or otherwise purchase, i used to wear a belt with a $100 bill in its
    inside zippered pocket when i went out for an evenings revelry

    There are exceptions such as pot lucks, and any other such or type of
    gathering where one is invited to eat (if not dine) but requested in the
    invitation to bring a suitable dish of ones own choosing to help provide
    the meal or food. Or a group meal where it is decided in advance how
    payment will be made, either separate checks or a single payer & we all
    pay our part + tip of.

    This can get complicated in night-clubs, taverns & such where one
    person takes it on themselves, with or without consultation to "run a
    tab' on their credit card and then expect the people they are with to
    reimburse for their own drinks and any snacks ordered.

    I have never been in such a situation but i have seen it happen to others.
    --
    JL



  19. #19
    J. Clarke Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    In article <ijbv01$9pn$[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...
    >
    > On 2/13/2011 4:22 PM, Lenona wrote:
    > > Found this.
    > >
    > > Lenona.
    > >
    > > http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationshi...entid=27656377
    > >
    > > Dear Miss Manners,
    > > Who should get the check? My question is in regards to the etiquette
    > > of getting the check at the end of the meal. I was raised that if it
    > > was not made very clear at the beginning (such as "don't worry we are
    > > taking you out"), to always make an effort to pay. My parents taught
    > > me it is polite to put up a little "argument over it," and I have
    > > always tried to do this when I have the opportunity; whether it is
    > > simply paying for myself or picking up the entire check.
    > >
    > > My husband believes if you are out with someone a little more well off
    > > you should simply take their offer, no argument.
    > >
    > > I feel like this is rude, but my problem is that I am just out of
    > > college and recently married. I can't necessarily follow through with
    > > the "argument" if I win. We see our parents on a pretty regular basis,
    > > and so tend to eat out with them frequently. The informality of these
    > > dinners means that no one specifies who pays for whom. Should dinners
    > > like these be understood as just dutch, or is it okay to simply accept
    > > as soon as they reach for the bill?
    > >
    > > Gentle Reader,
    > > Your husband's theory that those with more money should subsidize the
    > > entertaining of those with less is doomed. Miss Manners promises you
    > > that eventually, the perpetual hosts will feel that they are valued
    > > only for their ability to pick up the bill.
    > >
    > > Yes, sometimes even parents. The long habit of paying for their
    > > children often remains; many parents prefer to continue to do so and
    > > will make sure they win any such polite arguments as you mention. But
    > > even they will be flattered if you occasionally make a point of
    > > issuing a clear invitation at which you are the hosts -- at a place
    > > that you can afford.

    >
    > It seems to me that is the dinner/lunch is suggested in the following
    > manner it is dutch - "How about getting together for lunch on Tuesday?"
    > or "Would you like to go out for dinner next Saturday?" or something
    > like that.
    >
    > But if you say "I'd like to take you out to dinner on Friday." or if
    > someone sayst that to you, that means the person doing the inviting is
    > paying.
    >
    > If you do go on a supposed "dutch" either party may decide that they
    > want to pay for the other and say, "That's okay, I'll get the check."
    > or something to that effect.
    >
    > I think that's very straight forward. Just because one person
    > "suggests" the meal doesn't mean they are offering to pay. It's when
    > they say "Let me take you to dinner." that they are offering to pay.


    This is far, far too subtle a distinction of wording IMO.

    Could you provide a comprehensive list of code words that indicate an
    offer to treat or no offer to treat?

  20. #20
    J. Clarke Guest

    Default Re: Miss Manners on dining out: "Who should get the check?"

    In article <4d59945e$0$10398$[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...
    >
    > "Ed Pawlowski" <esp@snetnos[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]..
    > > ?
    > > "Lenona" <[email protected]> wrote
    > >> http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationshi...entid=27656377
    > >>
    > >> Dear Miss Manners,
    > >> Who should get the check? My question is in regards to the etiquette
    > >> of getting the check at the end of the meal. I was raised that if it
    > >> was not made very clear at the beginning (such as "don't worry we are
    > >> taking you out"), to always make an effort to pay.

    > >
    > >> Gentle Reader,
    > >> Yes, sometimes even parents. The long habit of paying for their
    > >> children often remains; many parents prefer to continue to do so and
    > >> will make sure they win any such polite arguments as you mention. But
    > >> even they will be flattered if you occasionally make a point of
    > >> issuing a clear invitation at which you are the hosts -- at a place
    > >> that you can afford.

    > >
    > > If I invite you as my guest, I pay
    > > If you invite me as your guest, you pay
    > > If friends say "do you want to go out to eat", we split it
    > >
    > > As for paying for (adult) children, it pretty much applies the same way
    > > but can change with their finances. My son always pays though (his
    > > choice) and can easily afford it.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > And if it is a date and he 'lets' you see what he is paying-he wants
    > something more than just dinner.


    If it is a date take it as a given that he wants something more than
    dinner.



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