Thread: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?

"Stray Dog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] org...
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
> it out.
>
> We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
> relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do
> (chicken,
> BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
> steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
> chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
> could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the plate and
> juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
> used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
> too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
> instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an
> aroma of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths
> water. On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there
> isn't even any aroma coming off them.
>
> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
> (warm) pink stage.
>
> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms,
> "watered"
> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
> growty), we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
> to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>
> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>
> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>
> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
> grill, we were so disappointed with it.
>
>
We feel the same way. I think something has happened to beef production.
Now all beef is vac packed and sent to the retailer. There's no dry aging by
the meat market anymore. We've been braising, usually chuck, for a long
time.
Even standing rib doesn't taste like it used to.

Ed

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On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:58:12 +0000, Stray Dog
<[email protected]> wrote:

>question: Is meat quality going down?

Shop at a better butcher?.....

Stray Dog wrote:
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?

I don't know that the quality of meat offered for sale has been
declining, but I can say that there has been some jiggering and
redefining and it can be difficult at times to make head or tails of
what is being sold.



> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually
> throw it out.

Interesting. Tell me more.



> We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
> relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do
> (chicken,
> BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
> steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
> chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
> could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the plate and
> juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
> used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
> too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
> instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an
> aroma of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths
> water. On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there
> isn't even any aroma coming off them.

I wasn't aware that good steaks and other beef cuts were to have notable
"chewyness." When prepared properly, most beef is tender. Juices
shouldn't be oozing out in great quantity, either. Two to four
tablespoonsful is a lot of juice to lose. Steaks will usually ooze large
amounts of juices if they are served and cut into before they've been
rested.

The absence of aroma is, I think, another problem entirely. How old are
you? All meat emits an aroma when cooked, you just might not smell it
the same way you used to.



> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up
> on these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no
> intermediate (warm) pink stage.

Which begs the question: are you overcooking them?



> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms,
> "watered"
> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
> growty)...

You mean growth... anyway, this is nothing new. Hormone and
antibiotic-fed stock has been part of our food supply for ages.



>... we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I
> seem to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.

Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where
the dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all
white meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.



> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>
> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>
> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
> grill, we were so disappointed with it.

Frankly, I think charcoal or propane grilling is too much for rib eye,
especially if one is not a good griller. There are lesser cuts with
better marbling that hold up better on the grill or under the broiler.

You may also be encountering problems with enhanced or injected meat.
You said that you're not getting "the taste experience" anymore, but you
didn't say what taste you are getting. Is the meat salty or bland? (And
again, this could also be an age issue.) Is the meat mushy or dry?

Pending further study, I'll offer that the problem is the way you cook
the meat in addition to the cuts you choose to cook. Try lesser cuts
with better marbling, cook them to internal temperature. Or forgo
grilling and come over to barbecuing or smoking -- slow cooking over low
indirect heat that can be done on a dedicated smoker or a gas or
charcoal grill. It lacks the flap and flash of grilling, but makes up
for it in better flavor and texture.

Pennyaline wrote:

> Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where the
> dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all white
> meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.

Just amputate the legs and wings when the chicken is small. Sell the baby
chicken legs at inflated prices as frog's legs. Of course the "oyster" and
the neck will still be dark meat, and this would probably only be allowed in
China...

Bob

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Pennyaline wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:33:08 -0600
> From: Pennyaline <[email protected]>
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Re: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> Stray Dog wrote:
>>
>>
>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> I don't know that the quality of meat offered for sale has been declining,
> but I can say that there has been some jiggering and redefining and it can be
> difficult at times to make head or tails of what is being sold.
>
>
>
>> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
>> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
>> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
>> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
>> it out.
>
> Interesting. Tell me more.
>
>
>
>> We've been doing various grillings over charcoal for decades and until
>> relatively recently been generally satisfied with everything we do
>> (chicken,
>> BBQ ribs, burgers, steaks, even hot dogs and sometimes flounders) but
>> steaks, in particular, have really gone downhill. The
>> chewyness isn't there, the taste isn't there, and back when it was good, I
>> could take a grilled steak off the charcoal and put it on the plate and
>> juices would keep coming out (say 2-4 tablespoonsfull), too, and could be
>> used back on the meat or over rice or potatoes, and that would taste good,
>> too, along with the meat. Now, we are lucky to get a few drops of juice
>> instead of tablespoonsfull. Not only that but there would always be an
>> aroma of grilled steak that we could smell and it would make our mouths
>> water. On these bad steaks (maybe up to 20% of all that we get), there
>> isn't even any aroma coming off them.
>
> I wasn't aware that good steaks and other beef cuts were to have notable
> "chewyness." When prepared properly, most beef is tender. Juices shouldn't be
> oozing out in great quantity, either. Two to four tablespoonsful is a lot of
> juice to lose. Steaks will usually ooze large amounts of juices if they are
> served and cut into before they've been rested.
>
> The absence of aroma is, I think, another problem entirely. How old are you?
> All meat emits an aroma when cooked, you just might not smell it the same way
> you used to.

You are not paying attention. We are still getting that aroma on the good
steaks. Not on the bad steaks. The bad steaks leave less juice, too, along
with the poorer taste and poorer chewyness.

>
>> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
>> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
>> (warm) pink stage.
>
> Which begs the question: are you overcooking them?

No.

>> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms,
>> "watered"
>> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
>> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
>> growty)...
>
> You mean growth... anyway, this is nothing new. Hormone and antibiotic-fed
> stock has been part of our food supply for ages.

Yes, but something new has been coming out to greater extents in recent
years.

>> ... we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem to
>> have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to produce
>> all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>
> Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where the
> dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all white meat
> chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.

Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.

>
>
>> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any rumors?
>>
>> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
>> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>>
>> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
>> grill, we were so disappointed with it.
>
> Frankly, I think charcoal or propane grilling is too much for rib eye,
> especially if one is not a good griller. There are lesser cuts with better
> marbling that hold up better on the grill or under the broiler.
>
> You may also be encountering problems with enhanced or injected meat. You
> said that you're not getting "the taste experience" anymore, but you didn't
> say what taste you are getting. Is the meat salty or bland? (And again, this
> could also be an age issue.) Is the meat mushy or dry?

I don't know how to describe it. We're getting maybe 2/3 of our steaks
pretty much pretty good and not grilling any different than in the past
decades. Its the other 1/3 to 1/4 or so that are real disappointments.

> Pending further study, I'll offer that the problem is the way you cook the
> meat in addition to the cuts you choose to cook.



Try lesser cuts with better
> marbling, cook them to internal temperature. Or forgo grilling and come over
> to barbecuing or smoking -- slow cooking over low indirect heat that can be
> done on a dedicated smoker or a gas or charcoal grill.

I'd rather like to ask why we're doing everything the same way we've done
it over the last 25 years and in the past we've been 100% satisfied with
what we got, but in recent years, about 1/4 to 1/3 steaks we get are
noticeabley poor.

It lacks the flap and
> flash of grilling, but makes up for it in better flavor and texture.

I might look into this, but I still want to know why in the past we were
always (repeat 100%) satisfied, and now only about 2/3 satisfied.

In article <[email protected]> ,
Stray Dog <[email protected]> wrote:

> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
> it out.

Part of the problem is the "low fat" idiocy.
I personally look for well marbled cuts from what I am selecting, unless
I'm doing tartare, then I go for as lean as possible.

>
<snip>

> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
> (warm) pink stage.

I'm not having that problem. Might be your technique or cut choices?
I've gotten a good medium rareness (accidently) with no problem. I
generally prefer it rare.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

In article <[email protected]>,
Mr. Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:58:12 +0000, Stray Dog
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Shop at a better butcher?.....

Indeed.
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

In article <[email protected] g>,
Stray Dog <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'd rather like to ask why we're doing everything the same way we've done
> it over the last 25 years and in the past we've been 100% satisfied with
> what we got, but in recent years, about 1/4 to 1/3 steaks we get are
> noticeabley poor.

You are likely running into saline injected meats.

Start reading labels and find a good local butcher. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

On Apr 22, 7:55*pm, "Bob Terwilliger" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz>
wrote:
> Pennyaline wrote:
> > Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where the
> > dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all white
> > meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.
>
> Just amputate the legs and wings when the chicken is small. Sell the baby
> chicken legs at inflated prices as frog's legs. Of course the "oyster" and
> the neck will still be dark meat, and this would probably only be allowedin
> China...

Google "amputarianism."
>
> Bob

--Bryan, aka Bobo Bonobo http://www.TheBonobos.com

Stray Dog wrote:
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?

I don't think the supermarkets are selling us the quality we used to
get. It's almost impossible to get USDA choice meats in the regular
case. It's sold at the specialty butcher counter along with a few cuts
of prime and some of that Angus beef. What used to be called USDA Good
seems to have been replaced with something called "Select" and then
there is even a cheaper grade called "Quality" I think these are retail
grade names and not USDA.

> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any
rumors?

We buy our rib eye steaks at Sams Club. They are USDA choice and we
grill them on our propane grill. DH is an excellent griller who has been
sending up his burnt offerings to the great god Barbecue for so long
that the god has been appeased and our meat comes off the grill tasty
and perfect. Any other beef we grill is marinated first.

--
Janet Wilder
way-the-heck-south Texas
spelling doesn't count
but cooking does

Stray Dog wrote:
> You are not paying attention. We are still getting that aroma on the
> good steaks. Not on the bad steaks. The bad steaks leave less juice,
> too, along with the poorer taste and poorer chewyness.

I *am* paying attention, a great deal of it. Yet I still can't figure
out just what you mean by "bad" steaks with less juice, poor taste and
poor "chewyness." What do you mean when you say those things? Give me a
sensual description. Show, don't tell.



>>> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows
>>> up on these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no
>>> intermediate (warm) pink stage.
>>
>> Which begs the question: are you overcooking them?
>
> No.

I have to ask, you see, because there is no "intermediate warm stage"
that I know of. The only reason I can think of for it to go from dark
red to done gray is that it was improperly rested or just plain overcooked.



>>> Now, with all of this genetically modified stuff coming off farms,
>>> "watered"
>>> beef, hormone-pumped up beef (steroid bulking), diet-finagled beef
>>> (antibiotics to inhibit intestinal bacteria to direct food to muscle
>>> growty)...
>>
>> You mean growth... anyway, this is nothing new. Hormone and
>> antibiotic-fed stock has been part of our food supply for ages.
>
> Yes, but something new has been coming out to greater extents in recent
> years.
>
>>> ... we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
>>> to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
>>> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>>
>> Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where
>> the dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all
>> white meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.
>
> Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.

It would take some real genetic hoop-jumping to make all white meat
poultry. Form follows function. They would have to alter function before
the nature of the meat would change.



>>> Is anyone else out there noticing this? Have any ideas? Heard any
>>> rumors?
>>>
>>> Is "organic-fed" (grass-only fed) what you have to get now? At, what,
>>> $30/pound, so I'm told?
>>>
>>> Wife and I decided tonight this was going to be our last rib-eye on the
>>> grill, we were so disappointed with it.
>>
>> Frankly, I think charcoal or propane grilling is too much for rib eye,
>> especially if one is not a good griller. There are lesser cuts with
>> better marbling that hold up better on the grill or under the broiler.
>>
>> You may also be encountering problems with enhanced or injected meat.
>> You said that you're not getting "the taste experience" anymore, but
>> you didn't say what taste you are getting. Is the meat salty or bland?
>> (And again, this could also be an age issue.) Is the meat mushy or dry?
>
> I don't know how to describe it. We're getting maybe 2/3 of our steaks
> pretty much pretty good and not grilling any different than in the past
> decades. Its the other 1/3 to 1/4 or so that are real disappointments.

Answer these questions: Where do you buy your steaks? Has that changed?
What cuts exactly are your steaks? Has THAT changed?
Are they ALL appropriate cuts for grilling?
Are they the same thickness?
Do they have the same amount of fat?
Do they have the same amount of bone?
Are they enhanced (it's important to know)?




>> Pending further study, I'll offer that the problem is the way you cook
>> the meat in addition to the cuts you choose to cook.
>
>
>
>> Try lesser cuts with better
>> marbling, cook them to internal temperature. Or forgo grilling and
>> come over to barbecuing or smoking -- slow cooking over low indirect
>> heat that can be done on a dedicated smoker or a gas or charcoal grill.
>
> I'd rather like to ask why we're doing everything the same way we've
> done it over the last 25 years and in the past we've been 100% satisfied
> with what we got, but in recent years, about 1/4 to 1/3 steaks we get
> are noticeabley poor.

Things can change considerably over twenty five years. The most
outstanding changes have occurred in you! But I also suggest that, since
the nature of all business has changed including the food business, the
meat you're buying is different too. I didn't say it had lessened in
quality, but I did say it's different. Pay attention to what you're
buying and cook it in a manner appropriate for its cut.



>> It lacks the flap and
>> flash of grilling, but makes up for it in better flavor and texture.
>
> I might look into this, but I still want to know why in the past we were
> always (repeat 100%) satisfied, and now only about 2/3 satisfied.

Were you really 100% satisfied, are is that how you're remembering it
for comparison's sake?

<frankly, if I was satisfied more than half the time with anything, I'd
be a pretty happy camper!>

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:56:05 -0600, Pennyaline
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I have to ask, you see, because there is no "intermediate warm stage"
>that I know of.

Me either.

>The only reason I can think of for it to go from dark
>red to done gray is that it was improperly rested
>
Improperly rested steak? Resting will usually overcook the thin
steaks most people buy. They are forced to cut them immediately or
risk over cooking.

> or just plain overcooked.

I'll second that.

I like cooking frozen steaks. By the time the outside is properly
charred, the inside is thawed and not quite medium rare.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:46:45 -0500, Janet Wilder
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Stray Dog wrote:
>>
>>
>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
>I don't think the supermarkets are selling us the quality we used to
>get.

Dress sizes adjusted so that more ample bodies can say they're still a
size 4 and bra sizes adjusted so an A can pretend to be a B... choice
meat isn't the same quality we knew as choice when we were growing up
and HFCS is in everything these days. It's a conspiracy I tell ya.
Look at what a penny will buy these days. Nothing. Not even a minute
on the parking meter.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

In article <49eff4e5$0$89871$[email protected]>,
Pennyaline <[email protected]> wrote:

> Stray Dog wrote:

> > Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.
>
> It would take some real genetic hoop-jumping to make all white meat
> poultry. Form follows function. They would have to alter function before
> the nature of the meat would change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_hen

"to develop the Rock Cornish game hen -- a succulent bird with all-white
meat"

I've never eaten one.

I understand that the domestic turkey has been bred to have a much
larger breast, which is white meat. It's not all white meat, but it's
not like the original wild turkey, either.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
[email protected]

Stray Dog wrote:
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?
>

Ignore the big box is your friend marketing and shop at a store with a
real meat department.

"Stray Dog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] org...
>
>
> question: Is meat quality going down?
>
> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
> it out.
>
It may be that getting older is part of your problem as it seems you have a
generalized problem with foods that you grill. Taste and smell go with age.
Janet

On Apr 22, 11:56*pm, Pennyaline <norwegianb...@deadparrot.com> wrote:
> Stray Dog wrote:
> >
> >>> ... we're just not getting the taste experience anymore. And, I seem
> >>> to have remembered reading that even chickens are now being bred to
> >>> produce all or mostly white meat and little or no dark meat.
>
> >> Is it possibly to raise chickens with only white meat? Consider where
> >> the dark meat on chickens is, and why it's dark. I don't think an all
> >> white meat chicken is possible unless it never stands up or takes a step.
>
> > Yes, all with genetics, and turkey too.
>
> It would take some real genetic hoop-jumping to make all white meat
> poultry. Form follows function. They would have to alter function before
> the nature of the meat would change.
>
Well, they've managed to breed them to be boneless and skinless.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

--Bryan listen @ http://www.myspace.com/TheBonobos

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Omelet wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:00:34 -0500
> From: Omelet <[email protected]>
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Re: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> In article <[email protected]> ,
> Stray Dog <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>>
>> Over roughly the last ten years, and particularly the last five, we (wife
>> and I) have been finding steaks in the meat sections of grocery stores to
>> have deteriorated in quality when grilled over charcoal. Not all, but
>> enough that we even don't finish eating what we grilled but actually throw
>> it out.
>
> Part of the problem is the "low fat" idiocy.
> I personally look for well marbled cuts from what I am selecting, unless
> I'm doing tartare, then I go for as lean as possible.

Yes, the wife and I discovered this years ago, too. Hamburgers made from
lean ground beef (also more expensive) just don't taste as good as "greasy
burgers".

>>
> <snip>
>
>> I also notice that the medium-rare "healthy" pink color never shows up on
>> these bad steaks. It goes from a dark red to a gray with no intermediate
>> (warm) pink stage.
>
> I'm not having that problem. Might be your technique or cut choices?
> I've gotten a good medium rareness (accidently) with no problem. I
> generally prefer it rare.

Thanks for your comments. Its only been recently (last few years, and in
increasing frequency) that we've been disatisfied with an increasing
fraction of what comes off our grill. And, I have not changed the way I do
things, either. We still get a lot of good steaks, but we're getting more
bad ones. And, I've noticed it over the years with flounder at
restaurants. Way in the past I often got good ones with that wonderful
texture/taste that I don't know how to describe, but today they've got
everything pre-cooked-whatever and just microwave it up and bring it out
two minutes after we give our order (in the old days, it took 20-30
minutes).

> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
> It's about learning to dance in the rain.
> -- Anon.
>

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009, Omelet wrote:

> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:01:01 -0500
> From: Omelet <[email protected]>
> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Re: Is meat quality (for grilling) going down?
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mr. Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:58:12 +0000, Stray Dog
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> question: Is meat quality going down?
>>
>> Shop at a better butcher?.....
>
> Indeed.

I'm going to look into that, too.


> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
> It's about learning to dance in the rain.
> -- Anon.
>