Thread: Meals (?) for today

Cheryl wrote:
>
> Dinner - handful of almonds and a flax seed oil capsule (need to
> remember to take that 3x per day)

Very bad idea. Increasing evidence suggests that inflammation
is a key process in cardiovascular disease and other health
problems. The following quotes from a USDA publication
describe the inflammatory reaction which results from eating
excess flaxseed and fish oils.

Of all food animals, the pig is most similar to a human.
Like humans it is by nature an omnivore, unlike cattle,
goats, and sheep which are herbivores. The USDA publication
_Atlas_of_Meat_Inspection_Pathology_ (USDA, 1972) is a
guide for meat inspectors, not human nutrition. But here
are some interesting comments on the effects of flaxseed
oil consumption on pigs, quoting from pages 165-167:

"Steatitis ('Yellow Fat' Disease) in Swine"

"Definition.--Steatitus ('yellow fat' disease) in swine
is a yellow pigmentation of adipose tissue associated
with the use of fish products and flaxseed as feed."

"Distribution and incidence.--Steatitus usually occurs
near fisheries where cannery wastes are fed to swine.
The disease is also found on fur ranches where the remains
of mink feed containing fish products are consumed by pigs.
The use of feed containing other substances possessing
highly unsaturated fatty acids, such as flaxseed, will also
produce the disease."

"Feeding swine rations containing excessive amounts of
highly unsaturated fatty acids and inadequate quantities of
tocopherols causes porcine adipose tissue to contain a
yellow, acid-fast pigment. The pigment consists of fat
soluble and fat insoluble fractions and the latter possesses
acid-fast staining characteristics. Fat cells can
incorporate and stabilize unsaturated fatty acids as
'storage fat' if vitamin E, an antioxidant, is added to a
ration rich in unsaturated fatty acids."

"The fat of affected swine has an odor of fish that can
be accentuated by heating the tissue. Swine having steatitus
tend to be thin and in poor physical condition."

"Macroscopic appearance.--Subcutaneous and mesenteric
fat, in particular, show the alterations characteristic
of this dietary disease. Affected fat is slightly
opaque and firmer than normal and varies from bright yellow
to yellowish brown."

"Microscopic appearance.--Foreign fat globules, some
of which contain an acid-fast pigment, are deposited in
the interstices of the adipose tissue. This deposition
appears as fine droplets or, quite frequently, as larger
discrete globules in groups or islets of variable size.
At time the globules have a pericapillary and periarteriole
location. Adipose cell tissues themselves are usually not
affected. Occasionally, foreign fat globules are seen
within adipose cells and their presence is interpreted to
represent a permeation into the normal storage fat
rather than a disturbed metabolic process. Foci of
inflammation composed of collections of macrophages,
neutrophils, eosinophils, and an occasional foreign-body
giant cell may be present between the adipose cells. These
macrophages and giant cells contain droplets of yellow fat.
This inflammatory reaction is the basis for applying the
name 'steatitus' to the condition."

"Mark Thorson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> Cheryl wrote:
>>
>> Dinner - handful of almonds and a flax seed oil capsule (need to
>> remember to take that 3x per day)
>
> Very bad idea. Increasing evidence suggests that inflammation
> is a key process in cardiovascular disease and other health
> problems. The following quotes from a USDA publication
> describe the inflammatory reaction which results from eating
> excess flaxseed and fish oils.
>
> Of all food animals, the pig is most similar to a human.
> Like humans it is by nature an omnivore, unlike cattle,
> goats, and sheep which are herbivores. The USDA publication
> _Atlas_of_Meat_Inspection_Pathology_ (USDA, 1972) is a
> guide for meat inspectors, not human nutrition. But here
> are some interesting comments on the effects of flaxseed
> oil consumption on pigs, quoting from pages 165-167:
>
> "Steatitis ('Yellow Fat' Disease) in Swine"
>
> "Definition.--Steatitus ('yellow fat' disease) in swine
> is a yellow pigmentation of adipose tissue associated
> with the use of fish products and flaxseed as feed."
>
> "Distribution and incidence.--Steatitus usually occurs
> near fisheries where cannery wastes are fed to swine.
> The disease is also found on fur ranches where the remains
> of mink feed containing fish products are consumed by pigs.
> The use of feed containing other substances possessing
> highly unsaturated fatty acids, such as flaxseed, will also
> produce the disease."
>
> "Feeding swine rations containing excessive amounts of
> highly unsaturated fatty acids and inadequate quantities of
> tocopherols causes porcine adipose tissue to contain a
> yellow, acid-fast pigment. The pigment consists of fat
> soluble and fat insoluble fractions and the latter possesses
> acid-fast staining characteristics. Fat cells can
> incorporate and stabilize unsaturated fatty acids as
> 'storage fat' if vitamin E, an antioxidant, is added to a
> ration rich in unsaturated fatty acids."
>
> "The fat of affected swine has an odor of fish that can
> be accentuated by heating the tissue. Swine having steatitus
> tend to be thin and in poor physical condition."
>
> "Macroscopic appearance.--Subcutaneous and mesenteric
> fat, in particular, show the alterations characteristic
> of this dietary disease. Affected fat is slightly
> opaque and firmer than normal and varies from bright yellow
> to yellowish brown."
>
> "Microscopic appearance.--Foreign fat globules, some
> of which contain an acid-fast pigment, are deposited in
> the interstices of the adipose tissue. This deposition
> appears as fine droplets or, quite frequently, as larger
> discrete globules in groups or islets of variable size.
> At time the globules have a pericapillary and periarteriole
> location. Adipose cell tissues themselves are usually not
> affected. Occasionally, foreign fat globules are seen
> within adipose cells and their presence is interpreted to
> represent a permeation into the normal storage fat
> rather than a disturbed metabolic process. Foci of
> inflammation composed of collections of macrophages,
> neutrophils, eosinophils, and an occasional foreign-body
> giant cell may be present between the adipose cells. These
> macrophages and giant cells contain droplets of yellow fat.
> This inflammatory reaction is the basis for applying the
> name 'steatitus' to the condition."

Interesting, thanks Mark. My Dr recommended more Omega 3s and since Flax
seed oil is what I have on-hand right now, that's what I thought I'd take.

I might resemble a pig slightly from behind depending on the jeans I'm
wearing at the time, though. But, I will talk to my Dr about your article.
She's more into holistic and Western medicine, so she might be able to shed
some light.

Cheryl

Cheryl wrote:
>
> Interesting, thanks Mark. My Dr recommended more Omega 3s and since Flax
> seed oil is what I have on-hand right now, that's what I thought I'd take.
>
> I might resemble a pig slightly from behind depending on the jeans I'm
> wearing at the time, though. But, I will talk to my Dr about your article.
> She's more into holistic and Western medicine, so she might be able to shed
> some light.

Ah, a quack! That explains it. Flaxseed oil has
been very popular in the "alternative medicine"
scene in recent years. The fear of inflammatory
reactions, however, is more recent than the fad
for flaxseed oil. She needs to catch up.

You need a little omega-3 fatty acids, and if you
eat a lot of fat, those flaxseed oil capsules might
not shorten your life significantly. On the other
hand, if you are eating a very low-fat diet and
taking these capsules, you could be setting yourself
up for steatitus and its inflammatory reactions.

I eat a few walnuts now and then for the omega-3's,
but I would never drink omega-3's or swallow capsules
of them.

"Cheryl" <[email protected]> wrote :
>
> I might resemble a pig slightly from behind depending on the jeans I'm
> wearing at the time, though. But, I will talk to my Dr about your
> article. She's more into holistic and Western medicine, so she might be
> able to shed some light.
>

Do NOT listen to Mark Thorson! I'm telling you. Seriously.

:

Mark Thorson wrote:

> You need a little omega-3 fatty acids, and if you
> eat a lot of fat, those flaxseed oil capsules might
> not shorten your life significantly. On the other
> hand, if you are eating a very low-fat diet and
> taking these capsules, you could be setting yourself
> up for steatitus and its inflammatory reactions.
>


What is steatitus?

gloria p

On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 21:50:58 -0400, "Cheryl"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>CShenk, I will try to broaden my scope of healthy choices.

My son ground up some chicken breasts and sautéed it with garlic and
multicolored peppers. The sauce included hot chili oil, not much else
and it was served over rice. Simple, but really good.

Last night - I cut up one chicken breast into tiny pieces, sautéed it
with copious garlic in EVOO, added caramelized onions, musgovian fresh
mushrooms, green zucchini, (yellow) crookneck squash and cooked them
until tender crisp. Deglazed the pan with a couple of tablespoons of
white wine and added a squirt of ketchup because I wanted some tomato
flavor, but didn't have fresh and didn't want to open a can of paste.
I wanted to add fresh basil, but didn't have any. All of that was
mixed with whole wheat linguini and some pasta water to loosen it up.
It was very good!

Not sure how those meals did on the cholesterol scale, but they passed
the hubby test. He's cutting down on everything (for his heart and
cholesterol). I'd go nuts if he had diabetes too. We've got fish,
chicken and vegetables. What's left to eat?



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:21:19 -0700, Mark Thorson <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Ah, a quack! That explains it. Flaxseed oil has
>been very popular in the "alternative medicine"
>scene in recent years. The fear of inflammatory
>reactions, however, is more recent than the fad
>for flaxseed oil. She needs to catch up.

Mark, what are your credentials for making that call?


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

Cheryl wrote:
> "Mark Thorson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]..
>> Cheryl wrote:
>>>
>>> Dinner - handful of almonds and a flax seed oil capsule (need to
>>> remember to take that 3x per day)
>>
>> Very bad idea. Increasing evidence suggests that inflammation
>> is a key process in cardiovascular disease and other health
>> problems. The following quotes from a USDA publication
>> describe the inflammatory reaction which results from eating
>> excess flaxseed and fish oils.
>>
>
> Interesting, thanks Mark. My Dr recommended more Omega 3s and since
> Flax seed oil is what I have on-hand right now, that's what I thought
> I'd take.
> I might resemble a pig slightly from behind depending on the jeans I'm
> wearing at the time, though. But, I will talk to my Dr about your
> article. She's more into holistic and Western medicine, so she might
> be able to shed some light.
>
> Cheryl


Mark is the resident doomsayer. He actually thinks we have mad cow disease
in the U.S. Yep, talk to your doctor.

Jill

said...

> Not sure how those meals did on the cholesterol scale, but they passed
> the hubby test. He's cutting down on everything (for his heart and
> cholesterol). I'd go nuts if he had diabetes too. We've got fish,
> chicken and vegetables. What's left to eat?


Pork tenderloin

Mark Thorson wrote:
> Cheryl wrote:
>> Dinner - handful of almonds and a flax seed oil capsule (need to
>> remember to take that 3x per day)
>
> Very bad idea. Increasing evidence suggests that inflammation
> is a key process in cardiovascular disease and other health
> problems. The following quotes from a USDA publication
> describe the inflammatory reaction which results from eating
> excess flaxseed and fish oils.
>
> Of all food animals, the pig is most similar to a human.
> Like humans it is by nature an omnivore, unlike cattle,
> goats, and sheep which are herbivores. The USDA publication
> _Atlas_of_Meat_Inspection_Pathology_ (USDA, 1972) is a
> guide for meat inspectors, not human nutrition. But here
> are some interesting comments on the effects of flaxseed
> oil consumption on pigs, quoting from pages 165-167:
>
> "Steatitis ('Yellow Fat' Disease) in Swine"
>
> "Definition.--Steatitus ('yellow fat' disease) in swine
> is a yellow pigmentation of adipose tissue associated
> with the use of fish products and flaxseed as feed."
>
> "Distribution and incidence.--Steatitus usually occurs
> near fisheries where cannery wastes are fed to swine.
> The disease is also found on fur ranches where the remains
> of mink feed containing fish products are consumed by pigs.
> The use of feed containing other substances possessing
> highly unsaturated fatty acids, such as flaxseed, will also
> produce the disease."
>
> "Feeding swine rations containing excessive amounts of
> highly unsaturated fatty acids and inadequate quantities of
> tocopherols causes porcine adipose tissue to contain a
> yellow, acid-fast pigment. The pigment consists of fat
> soluble and fat insoluble fractions and the latter possesses
> acid-fast staining characteristics. Fat cells can
> incorporate and stabilize unsaturated fatty acids as
> 'storage fat' if vitamin E, an antioxidant, is added to a
> ration rich in unsaturated fatty acids."
>
> "The fat of affected swine has an odor of fish that can
> be accentuated by heating the tissue. Swine having steatitus
> tend to be thin and in poor physical condition."
>
> "Macroscopic appearance.--Subcutaneous and mesenteric
> fat, in particular, show the alterations characteristic
> of this dietary disease. Affected fat is slightly
> opaque and firmer than normal and varies from bright yellow
> to yellowish brown."
>
> "Microscopic appearance.--Foreign fat globules, some
> of which contain an acid-fast pigment, are deposited in
> the interstices of the adipose tissue. This deposition
> appears as fine droplets or, quite frequently, as larger
> discrete globules in groups or islets of variable size.
> At time the globules have a pericapillary and periarteriole
> location. Adipose cell tissues themselves are usually not
> affected. Occasionally, foreign fat globules are seen
> within adipose cells and their presence is interpreted to
> represent a permeation into the normal storage fat
> rather than a disturbed metabolic process. Foci of
> inflammation composed of collections of macrophages,
> neutrophils, eosinophils, and an occasional foreign-body
> giant cell may be present between the adipose cells. These
> macrophages and giant cells contain droplets of yellow fat.
> This inflammatory reaction is the basis for applying the
> name 'steatitus' to the condition."

Really! So what is "excessive", I wonder?

--
Jean B.

jmcquown wrote:
> Cheryl wrote:
>> "Mark Thorson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]..
>>> Cheryl wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dinner - handful of almonds and a flax seed oil capsule (need to
>>>> remember to take that 3x per day)
>>>
>>> Very bad idea. Increasing evidence suggests that inflammation
>>> is a key process in cardiovascular disease and other health
>>> problems. The following quotes from a USDA publication
>>> describe the inflammatory reaction which results from eating
>>> excess flaxseed and fish oils.
>>>
>>
>> Interesting, thanks Mark. My Dr recommended more Omega 3s and since
>> Flax seed oil is what I have on-hand right now, that's what I thought
>> I'd take.
>> I might resemble a pig slightly from behind depending on the jeans I'm
>> wearing at the time, though. But, I will talk to my Dr about your
>> article. She's more into holistic and Western medicine, so she might
>> be able to shed some light.
>>
>> Cheryl
>
>
> Mark is the resident doomsayer. He actually thinks we have mad cow
> disease in the U.S. Yep, talk to your doctor.
>
> Jill

Sure, talk to your doctor.

OTOH, how good a job has the FDA done in protecting the US consumer?

Are folks and cattle in the US miraculously immune to this issue?

--
Jean B.

Gloria P wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > You need a little omega-3 fatty acids, and if you
> > eat a lot of fat, those flaxseed oil capsules might
> > not shorten your life significantly. On the other
> > hand, if you are eating a very low-fat diet and
> > taking these capsules, you could be setting yourself
> > up for steatitus and its inflammatory reactions.
>
> What is steatitus?

Yellow fat disease, an inflammatory reaction caused
by having excess flaxseed or fish oil in the diet.

sf wrote:
>
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:21:19 -0700, Mark Thorson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Ah, a quack! That explains it. Flaxseed oil has
> >been very popular in the "alternative medicine"
> >scene in recent years. The fear of inflammatory
> >reactions, however, is more recent than the fad
> >for flaxseed oil. She needs to catch up.
>
> Mark, what are your credentials for making that call?

You don't need to trust me, because I quote primary
sources and provide bibliographic references if anyone
wants to track them down to verify the accuracy of my
quotes.

"sf" wrote in message news:[email protected]..

> My son ground up some chicken breasts and sautéed it with garlic and
> multicolored peppers. The sauce included hot chili oil, not much else
> and it was served over rice. Simple, but really good.
>
> Last night - I cut up one chicken breast into tiny pieces, sautéed it
> with copious garlic in EVOO, added caramelized onions, musgovian fresh
> mushrooms, green zucchini, (yellow) crookneck squash and cooked them
> until tender crisp. Deglazed the pan with a couple of tablespoons of
> white wine and added a squirt of ketchup because I wanted some tomato
> flavor, but didn't have fresh and didn't want to open a can of paste.
> I wanted to add fresh basil, but didn't have any. All of that was
> mixed with whole wheat linguini and some pasta water to loosen it up.
> It was very good!
>
> Not sure how those meals did on the cholesterol scale, but they passed
> the hubby test. He's cutting down on everything (for his heart and
> cholesterol). I'd go nuts if he had diabetes too. We've got fish,
> chicken and vegetables. What's left to eat?

Sounds good to me! Tonight I caramelized some thick onion pieces with
garlic in EVOO. Poured the cooked onions and garlic with the EVOO over some
broccoli and roasted them. Cooked some bread to go with (my only downfall
today but not much saturated fat and no cholesterol) and dipped the bread in
the leftover EVOO from the roasted veggies. No butter, no meat, and for
today I could deal with that. No cheese in several days. Wow, I miss it.
Can you "save up" to have some? lol

Can you get tomato paste in the tube? It's easier to store and lasts
longer.

Cheryl

"Cheryl" <[email protected]> wrote
> Sounds good to me! Tonight I caramelized some thick onion pieces with
> garlic in EVOO. Poured the cooked onions and garlic with the EVOO over
> some broccoli and roasted them. Cooked some bread to go with (my only
> downfall today but not much saturated fat and no cholesterol) and dipped
> the bread in the leftover EVOO from the roasted veggies. No butter, no
> meat, and for today I could deal with that.

Sounds really good. Sauteed onions are so delicious, they add a YUM factor
but are healthy.

No cheese in several days. Wow, I miss it.
> Can you "save up" to have some? lol

Don't tell yourself that you CAN'T have *anything.* That's the best way to
drive yourself to it! Just have some, in moderation, when you crave it and
subs won't work.

I checked my Sour Cream dip (made with Daisy Light SC) and it has 10 mgs of
cholesterol in 2 tablespoons. Not bad if it gets heaps of good fiber into
you, int he way of raw or lightly steamed vegetables. You don't like peppers
or cukes, but how about raw or lightly steamed broc, carrots, or celery?

Gloria P wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > You need a little omega-3 fatty acids, and if you
> > eat a lot of fat, those flaxseed oil capsules might
> > not shorten your life significantly. On the other
> > hand, if you are eating a very low-fat diet and
> > taking these capsules, you could be setting yourself
> > up for steatitus and its inflammatory reactions.
> >
>
> What is steatitus?
>
> gloria p

Steatitis is inflammation of body fat with deposition of waxy material
between fat cells.

Arri London wrote:
>
> Gloria P wrote:

>> What is steatitus?
>>
>> gloria p
>
> Steatitis is inflammation of body fat with deposition of waxy material
> between fat cells.

....and exactly how common is this?? I'd never heard of it.

Arri London wrote:
>
> Gloria P wrote:
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>>> You need a little omega-3 fatty acids, and if you
>>> eat a lot of fat, those flaxseed oil capsules might
>>> not shorten your life significantly. On the other
>>> hand, if you are eating a very low-fat diet and
>>> taking these capsules, you could be setting yourself
>>> up for steatitus and its inflammatory reactions.
>>>
>> What is steatitus?
>>
>> gloria p
>
> Steatitis is inflammation of body fat with deposition of waxy material
> between fat cells.


Interesting. Is this a real medical condition or something dreamed up
by health food stores?

The reason I ask: I searched the name on three medical websites* and
none of them could identify the word.

*Mayo CLinic, WebMD and Merck

gloria p

Goomba wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> >
> > Steatitis is inflammation of body fat with deposition of waxy material
> > between fat cells.
>
> ...and exactly how common is this?? I'd never heard of it.

I don't think the incidence is known. It's a chronic
condition of poor health, not something quickly lethal.
Any deaths from steatitus are probably ascribed to
other causes, such as failure of an afflicted organ.

It's sort of like being fat. A death certificate
would say something like "heart failure", not "fat".

Before flaxseed and flaxseed oil became dubious "health"
fads, there probably was very little steatitus in
humans. I think in 20 years, the adverse effects of
eating flaxseed and flaxseed oil may become evident
in retrospect.