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Thread: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

  1. #1
    Chemiker Guest

    Default Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
    roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
    feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
    internet time), I think I have found the culprit.

    Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
    roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
    proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.

    Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
    the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".

    A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.

    Alex

  2. #2
    Dan Abel Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Chemiker <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
    > roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
    > feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
    > internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
    >
    > Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
    > roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
    > proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
    >
    > Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
    > the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
    >
    > A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.


    I disagree. However, I've never made gumbo, or anything requiring a
    brown roux. I can say that I have used olive oil for making roux for
    white sauces, and generally like it pretty well (think turkey ala king).
    It sure doesn't make sense to use a good olive oil for anything cooked
    at a very high heat, since it loses a lot of the flavor you have paid
    for.

    I'll take your word not to use olive oil for a dark roux.

    --
    Dan Abel
    Petaluma, California USA
    [email protected]

  3. #3
    Chemiker Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    The new batch came out perfect. Base was 2 home-smoked links of
    Johnsonville Mild Italian + 1 Aidell's andouille. Fresh okra. Trinity.
    Chocolate (!) roux, 1 rotisserie chicken, diced. Thyme. Smoked
    Paprika. Trappey's Red Devil, BP, bay leaf, 2 cloves minced garlic.
    Clam juice, seafood stock. Other stuff I forgot, will add shrimp
    shortly. Maybe scallops. Parsley. Chiffonade of kale. 2 Tbs
    worcestershire.

    Alex, checking the beer cooler.

  4. #4
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    Chemiker wrote:
    > Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
    > roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
    > feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
    > internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
    >
    > Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
    > roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
    > proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
    >
    > Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
    > the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
    >
    > A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
    >
    > Alex


    Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux and
    float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter, sometimes
    clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You just have to be
    careful with the temperature so it takes a little longer.



  5. #5
    cshenk Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    Chemiker wrote in rec.food.cooking:

    > Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
    > roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
    > feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
    > internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
    >
    > Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
    > roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
    > proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
    >
    > Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
    > the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
    >
    > A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.


    I'm not a major roux maker, but when I do it, I was taught to use
    butter or pork fat or duck fat (rendered). Probably all wrong there
    too eh?


    --


  6. #6
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    cshenk wrote:
    > Chemiker wrote in rec.food.cooking:
    >
    >> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible.
    >> THe roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky
    >> oily feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng
    >> ( and internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
    >>
    >> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
    >> roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
    >> proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
    >>
    >> Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
    >> the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
    >>
    >> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.

    >
    > I'm not a major roux maker, but when I do it, I was taught to use
    > butter or pork fat or duck fat (rendered). Probably all wrong there
    > too eh?


    Not in the least IMO! Butter, pork fat, duck fat, schmaltz, or whatever fat
    is rendered from whatever meat you are using to make a sauce or gravy or
    dark roux... what else does anyone need? ;-) But oil? I don't use any oil
    unless there isn't any other choice. I'd even go to saved bacon fat before
    I'd use oil. And for okra based gumbo I like a combination of butter and
    bacon fat for the dark roux, plus any fat rendered when browning the chicken
    pieces.

    MartyB.

    MartyB



  7. #7
    Chemiker Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 18:26:19 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >cshenk wrote:
    >> Chemiker wrote in rec.food.cooking:


    >Not in the least IMO! Butter, pork fat, duck fat, schmaltz, or whatever fat
    >is rendered from whatever meat you are using to make a sauce or gravy or
    >dark roux... what else does anyone need? ;-) But oil? I don't use any oil
    >unless there isn't any other choice. I'd even go to saved bacon fat before
    >I'd use oil. And for okra based gumbo I like a combination of butter and
    >bacon fat for the dark roux, plus any fat rendered when browning the chicken
    >pieces.


    Well, it seems I was late to the party. I never used EVOO before, so
    never knew the difference. I won't make that mistake again. Yes, the
    oil separated and floated on top, and the roux was thin and grainy.
    Had the new batch for supper and it was fine.

    Alex

  8. #8
    Polly Esther Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!


    "Chemiker" <> wrote in message>
    On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 18:26:19 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>cshenk wrote:
    >>> Chemiker wrote in rec.food.cooking:

    >
    >>Not in the least IMO! Butter, pork fat, duck fat, schmaltz, or whatever
    >>fat
    >>is rendered from whatever meat you are using to make a sauce or gravy or
    >>dark roux... what else does anyone need? ;-) But oil? I don't use any oil
    >>unless there isn't any other choice. I'd even go to saved bacon fat before
    >>I'd use oil. And for okra based gumbo I like a combination of butter and
    >>bacon fat for the dark roux, plus any fat rendered when browning the
    >>chicken
    >>pieces.

    >
    > Well, it seems I was late to the party. I never used EVOO before, so
    > never knew the difference. I won't make that mistake again. Yes, the
    > oil separated and floated on top, and the roux was thin and grainy.
    > Had the new batch for supper and it was fine.
    >
    > Alex


    I use vegetable oil but since the question came up, I checked our cook book
    collection to see what other cooks think. The Picayune Creole Cook Book of
    1901 had this rather harsh comment:
    " Properly made, the taste of lard can never be detected and it is feared
    that butter is used by many to cover up, by its taste, the deficiencies of
    having made the roux improperly. " Polly


  9. #9
    Steve Pope Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    There are lots of olive oils, and lots of EVOO's some will work
    in a roux and some will not. The ones that are generally
    good for frying and sauteeing should work. Know your oils.

    Steve

  10. #10
    sf Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 14:19:31 -0500, Chemiker
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
    > roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
    > feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
    > internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
    >
    > Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
    > roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
    > proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
    >
    > Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
    > the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
    >
    > A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
    >
    > Alex


    Alex... if you want to try something even harder, make roux with
    something that's not wheat flour. I have. It takes literally forever
    and to get to a milk chocolate brown. I can't remember what it was at
    the moment but if you want to know, I'll come up with it (all you
    really need to know is *use* wheat flour).

    --

    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

  11. #11
    sf Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:27:07 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux and
    > float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter, sometimes
    > clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You just have to be
    > careful with the temperature so it takes a little longer.


    *Butter*? Oh, no.

    --

    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

  12. #12
    sf Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 16:34:46 -0500, "cshenk" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I'm not a major roux maker, but when I do it, I was taught to use
    > butter or pork fat or duck fat (rendered). Probably all wrong there
    > too eh?


    Too up scale.

    --

    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

  13. #13
    sf Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 18:26:19 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Not in the least IMO! Butter, pork fat, duck fat, schmaltz, or whatever fat
    > is rendered from whatever meat you are using to make a sauce or gravy or
    > dark roux... what else does anyone need? ;-) But oil? I don't use any oil
    > unless there isn't any other choice.


    You don't use oil when making roux for gumbo? Odd.

    --

    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

  14. #14
    sf Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:23:06 -0500, Chemiker
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I never used EVOO before, so
    > never knew the difference. I won't make that mistake again. Yes, the
    > oil separated and floated on top, and the roux was thin and grainy.
    > Had the new batch for supper and it was fine.


    I wouldn't use it because it would add a flavor I'm not looking for.

    --

    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

  15. #15
    ViLco Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    sf wrote:

    >> Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux
    >> and float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter,
    >> sometimes clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You
    >> just have to be careful with the temperature so it takes a little
    >> longer.


    > *Butter*? Oh, no.


    Classic roux is just butter and flour
    --
    ViLco
    Let the liquor do the thinking




  16. #16
    Giusi Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!


    "Chemiker" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
    > roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
    > feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
    > internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
    >
    > Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
    > roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
    > proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
    >
    > Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
    > the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
    >
    > A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.


    Wrong, wrong, wrong. have always used olive oil and never made a bad roux.



  17. #17
    Giusi Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!


    "Nunya Bidnits" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel
    messaggio
    > Chemiker wrote:
    >> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
    >> roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
    >> feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
    >> internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
    >>
    >> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
    >> roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
    >> proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
    >>
    >> Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
    >> the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
    >>
    >> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
    >>
    >> Alex

    >
    > Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux and
    > float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter, sometimes
    > clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You just have to be
    > careful with the temperature so it takes a little longer.


    I think it sounds crazy to try to make a mahogany roux from butter!



  18. #18
    Dan Abel Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Giusi" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Chemiker" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > > Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
    > > roux would not brown properly


    > > A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.

    >
    > Wrong, wrong, wrong. have always used olive oil and never made a bad roux.


    White, brown or both?

    --
    Dan Abel
    Petaluma, California USA
    [email protected]

  19. #19
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    sf wrote:
    > On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:27:07 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux
    >> and float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter,
    >> sometimes clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You
    >> just have to be careful with the temperature so it takes a little
    >> longer.

    >
    > *Butter*? Oh, no.


    Why not? Note my comment about temperature for dark roux.



  20. #20
    Nunya Bidnits Guest

    Default Re: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

    Giusi wrote:
    > "Nunya Bidnits" <[email protected]> ha scritto
    > nel messaggio
    >> Chemiker wrote:
    >>> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible.
    >>> THe roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a
    >>> tacky oily feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul
    >>> searchinng ( and internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
    >>>
    >>> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to
    >>> make roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly.
    >>> Reflection proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the
    >>> peanut oil. Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP
    >>> flour,
    >>> and the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
    >>>
    >>> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
    >>>
    >>> Alex

    >>
    >> Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux
    >> and float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter,
    >> sometimes clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You
    >> just have to be careful with the temperature so it takes a little
    >> longer.

    >
    > I think it sounds crazy to try to make a mahogany roux from butter!


    It takes a while because you don't want to burn the butter, and I use a high
    quality butter like Plugra, or I use clarified butter. Also if I want it
    really dark chocolate brown, I probably won't use any butter. In practice,
    since there is always some sort of meat involved which produces rendered
    fat, and it gets used as well, as I noted in the previous post. But
    sometimes there isn't enough animal fat to do the job in which case I'll go
    for butter or bacon fat. For lighter colored rouxs and bechamel, I prefer
    butter .

    MartyB



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