Thread: Making roux with olive oil? Mais Non!

In article <[email protected]>,
Chemiker <[email protected]> wrote:

> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
> roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
> feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
> internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
>
> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
> roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
> proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
>
> Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
> the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
>
> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.

I disagree. However, I've never made gumbo, or anything requiring a
brown roux. I can say that I have used olive oil for making roux for
white sauces, and generally like it pretty well (think turkey ala king).
It sure doesn't make sense to use a good olive oil for anything cooked
at a very high heat, since it loses a lot of the flavor you have paid
for.

I'll take your word not to use olive oil for a dark roux.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
[email protected]

The new batch came out perfect. Base was 2 home-smoked links of
Johnsonville Mild Italian + 1 Aidell's andouille. Fresh okra. Trinity.
Chocolate (!) roux, 1 rotisserie chicken, diced. Thyme. Smoked
Paprika. Trappey's Red Devil, BP, bay leaf, 2 cloves minced garlic.
Clam juice, seafood stock. Other stuff I forgot, will add shrimp
shortly. Maybe scallops. Parsley. Chiffonade of kale. 2 Tbs
worcestershire.

Alex, checking the beer cooler.

Chemiker wrote:
> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
> roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
> feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
> internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
>
> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
> roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
> proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
>
> Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
> the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
>
> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
>
> Alex

Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux and
float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter, sometimes
clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You just have to be
careful with the temperature so it takes a little longer.

Chemiker wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
> roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
> feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
> internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
>
> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
> roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
> proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
>
> Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
> the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
>
> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.

I'm not a major roux maker, but when I do it, I was taught to use
butter or pork fat or duck fat (rendered). Probably all wrong there
too eh?


--

cshenk wrote:
> Chemiker wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible.
>> THe roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky
>> oily feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng
>> ( and internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
>>
>> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
>> roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
>> proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
>>
>> Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
>> the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
>>
>> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
>
> I'm not a major roux maker, but when I do it, I was taught to use
> butter or pork fat or duck fat (rendered). Probably all wrong there
> too eh?

Not in the least IMO! Butter, pork fat, duck fat, schmaltz, or whatever fat
is rendered from whatever meat you are using to make a sauce or gravy or
dark roux... what else does anyone need? ;-) But oil? I don't use any oil
unless there isn't any other choice. I'd even go to saved bacon fat before
I'd use oil. And for okra based gumbo I like a combination of butter and
bacon fat for the dark roux, plus any fat rendered when browning the chicken
pieces.

MartyB.

MartyB

On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 18:26:19 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>cshenk wrote:
>> Chemiker wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>Not in the least IMO! Butter, pork fat, duck fat, schmaltz, or whatever fat
>is rendered from whatever meat you are using to make a sauce or gravy or
>dark roux... what else does anyone need? ;-) But oil? I don't use any oil
>unless there isn't any other choice. I'd even go to saved bacon fat before
>I'd use oil. And for okra based gumbo I like a combination of butter and
>bacon fat for the dark roux, plus any fat rendered when browning the chicken
>pieces.

Well, it seems I was late to the party. I never used EVOO before, so
never knew the difference. I won't make that mistake again. Yes, the
oil separated and floated on top, and the roux was thin and grainy.
Had the new batch for supper and it was fine.

Alex

"Chemiker" <> wrote in message>
On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 18:26:19 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
> <> wrote:
>
>>cshenk wrote:
>>> Chemiker wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>>Not in the least IMO! Butter, pork fat, duck fat, schmaltz, or whatever
>>fat
>>is rendered from whatever meat you are using to make a sauce or gravy or
>>dark roux... what else does anyone need? ;-) But oil? I don't use any oil
>>unless there isn't any other choice. I'd even go to saved bacon fat before
>>I'd use oil. And for okra based gumbo I like a combination of butter and
>>bacon fat for the dark roux, plus any fat rendered when browning the
>>chicken
>>pieces.
>
> Well, it seems I was late to the party. I never used EVOO before, so
> never knew the difference. I won't make that mistake again. Yes, the
> oil separated and floated on top, and the roux was thin and grainy.
> Had the new batch for supper and it was fine.
>
> Alex

I use vegetable oil but since the question came up, I checked our cook book
collection to see what other cooks think. The Picayune Creole Cook Book of
1901 had this rather harsh comment:
" Properly made, the taste of lard can never be detected and it is feared
that butter is used by many to cover up, by its taste, the deficiencies of
having made the roux improperly. " Polly

There are lots of olive oils, and lots of EVOO's some will work
in a roux and some will not. The ones that are generally
good for frying and sauteeing should work. Know your oils.

Steve

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 14:19:31 -0500, Chemiker
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
> roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
> feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
> internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
>
> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
> roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
> proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
>
> Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
> the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
>
> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
>
> Alex

Alex... if you want to try something even harder, make roux with
something that's not wheat flour. I have. It takes literally forever
and to get to a milk chocolate brown. I can't remember what it was at
the moment but if you want to know, I'll come up with it (all you
really need to know is *use* wheat flour).

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:27:07 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
<nunyabidnits@eternal-septem[email protected]> wrote:

> Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux and
> float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter, sometimes
> clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You just have to be
> careful with the temperature so it takes a little longer.

*Butter*? Oh, no.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 16:34:46 -0500, "cshenk" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm not a major roux maker, but when I do it, I was taught to use
> butter or pork fat or duck fat (rendered). Probably all wrong there
> too eh?

Too up scale.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 18:26:19 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Not in the least IMO! Butter, pork fat, duck fat, schmaltz, or whatever fat
> is rendered from whatever meat you are using to make a sauce or gravy or
> dark roux... what else does anyone need? ;-) But oil? I don't use any oil
> unless there isn't any other choice.

You don't use oil when making roux for gumbo? Odd.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:23:06 -0500, Chemiker
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I never used EVOO before, so
> never knew the difference. I won't make that mistake again. Yes, the
> oil separated and floated on top, and the roux was thin and grainy.
> Had the new batch for supper and it was fine.

I wouldn't use it because it would add a flavor I'm not looking for.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

sf wrote:

>> Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux
>> and float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter,
>> sometimes clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You
>> just have to be careful with the temperature so it takes a little
>> longer.

> *Butter*? Oh, no.

Classic roux is just butter and flour
--
ViLco
Let the liquor do the thinking

"Chemiker" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
> roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
> feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
> internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
>
> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
> roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
> proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
>
> Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
> the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
>
> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. have always used olive oil and never made a bad roux.

"Nunya Bidnits" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel
messaggio
> Chemiker wrote:
>> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
>> roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a tacky oily
>> feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul searchinng ( and
>> internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
>>
>> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to make
>> roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly. Reflection
>> proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the peanut oil.
>>
>> Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP flour, and
>> the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
>>
>> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
>>
>> Alex
>
> Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux and
> float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter, sometimes
> clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You just have to be
> careful with the temperature so it takes a little longer.

I think it sounds crazy to try to make a mahogany roux from butter!

In article <[email protected]>,
"Giusi" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Chemiker" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
> > Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible. THe
> > roux would not brown properly

> > A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
>
> Wrong, wrong, wrong. have always used olive oil and never made a bad roux.

White, brown or both?

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
[email protected]

sf wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:27:07 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux
>> and float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter,
>> sometimes clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You
>> just have to be careful with the temperature so it takes a little
>> longer.
>
> *Butter*? Oh, no.

Why not? Note my comment about temperature for dark roux.

Giusi wrote:
> "Nunya Bidnits" <[email protected]> ha scritto
> nel messaggio
>> Chemiker wrote:
>>> Made a batch of Cajun (brown) gumbo yesterday and it was terrible.
>>> THe roux would not brown properly and the resultant dish had a
>>> tacky oily feel/tooth and a floury aftertaste. After much soul
>>> searchinng ( and internet time), I think I have found the culprit.
>>>
>>> Found a reference in the GumboPages that warns the reader NOT to
>>> make roux with olive oil, as they invariably come up poorly.
>>> Reflection proved that I had done so, because I couldn't find the
>>> peanut oil. Bought a fresh bottle of peanut oil, and remeasured the AP
>>> flour,
>>> and the roux came up beautifully, with exactly the right "nose".
>>>
>>> A word to the wise. Avoid EVOO for roux.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>
>> Same experience, and the EVOO wants to separate from the brown roux
>> and float on top. Personally I like to use a good quality butter,
>> sometimes clarified butter. Adds another dimension to the taste. You
>> just have to be careful with the temperature so it takes a little
>> longer.
>
> I think it sounds crazy to try to make a mahogany roux from butter!

It takes a while because you don't want to burn the butter, and I use a high
quality butter like Plugra, or I use clarified butter. Also if I want it
really dark chocolate brown, I probably won't use any butter. In practice,
since there is always some sort of meat involved which produces rendered
fat, and it gets used as well, as I noted in the previous post. But
sometimes there isn't enough animal fat to do the job in which case I'll go
for butter or bacon fat. For lighter colored rouxs and bechamel, I prefer
butter .

MartyB