Thread: Kitchen Appliances and general redo

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:35:50 -0400, Goomba <[email protected]> wrote:

>We're re-doing the kitchen.
>My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
>panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
>narrow cabinets hung over the space.
>I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
>it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>
>We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
>them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>
I did it the other way around. On the wall where the refrigerator went
I made the lower and full-height cabinets 30" deep so I could inset a
standard unit. One advantage turned out I could put an appliance garage
along that whole wall, flush with the upper cabinets, and still have 18"
of counter space in front.

On Jun 26, 4:35�pm, Goomba <Goomb...@comcast.net> wrote:
> We're re-doing the kitchen.
> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
> it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>
> We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
> them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>
> The storage space and special features in new cabinets are such fun to
> pick out! Our old cabinets were stick built on site and are incredibly
> sturdy and strong solid (SOLID!) wood everywhere. I hate to tear them
> down, but they truly have too much wasted space as well as being way too
> dated looking. I wish I had the patience and vision to re-use some of
> the old and mix in some of the new and have it come out as it needs to.
> I'm going to ask our local Habitat for Humanity resale shop if they have
> a market for them, assuming we can get them out easily? The doors alone,
> being solid wood should have some chance of re-use somehow, right?

Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry... the crap they
produce these days can't compare. And there are all sorts of internal
organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
can install them yourself). And, btw, just when you build custom
cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.
There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
window.

Robert Klute wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:35:50 -0400, Goomba <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> We're re-doing the kitchen.
>> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
>> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
>> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
>> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
>> it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>>
>> We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
>> them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>>
> I did it the other way around. On the wall where the refrigerator went
> I made the lower and full-height cabinets 30" deep so I could inset a
> standard unit. One advantage turned out I could put an appliance garage
> along that whole wall, flush with the upper cabinets, and still have 18"
> of counter space in front.

Interesting!
What did you use for your counters?

Sheldon wrote:

> Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
> perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry...

That's how I feel about it too, but do not have the vision, energy or
desire to hobble it together. Whomever built these cupboards was
brilliant at construction, but did a lousy job utilizing space. Lots of
blind corners, wasted soffit area and other areas of wasted space.


>the crap they produce these days can't compare.

Yet they have features that were unheard of when these originals were
built.

> And there are all sorts of internal
> organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
> can install them yourself).

The ones I've seen work, yet don't necessarily provide enough new
storage for my needs. I have some already.

And, btw, just when you build custom
> cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
> A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.

We were told 2 inches was all most manufacturers require. My husband
prefers the entire side open, which also allows him to wiggle the fridge
out and back easily.

> There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
> starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
> ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
> window.

We need better lighting, the windows are fine (new!) I can't wait to
have a single tall spigot that also turns into the sprayer, instead of
the small annoying sprayer which is separate now. The only appliances we
must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with built in
exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model. I've never
owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I do not want to
feel closed in over my range in any way.

Goomba wrote:
> We're re-doing the kitchen.
> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
> it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?


I'd be more worried about the motor overheating with no way to
vent the heat if it were very closed-in.

gloria p

Goomba wrote:
>
> I can't wait to have a single tall spigot that also turns into the
> sprayer, instead of the small annoying sprayer which is separate
> now.

Um, you're going to need a much younger husband. hehe

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:35:50 -0400, Goomba <[email protected]>
wrote:

>We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
>them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?

You have to realize that "cabinet depth" appliances will reduce your
storage. A standard refrigerator has depth, i.e. MORE space. But
what you can do is set your regular appliances, (dramatically less
expensive than cabinet depth), and have your cabinet man/person, set
the cabinets in line with those appliances. I am guessing the ONLY
cabinet depth appliance you are concerned with is refrigeration. The
rest of kitchen appliances all fall in regular line.

Next good bet....find the BEST kitchen desinger in your area. They
can save you thousands in costs.

Goomba wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
>> Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
>> perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry...
>
> That's how I feel about it too, but do not have the vision, energy or
> desire to hobble it together. Whomever built these cupboards was
> brilliant at construction, but did a lousy job utilizing space. Lots of
> blind corners, wasted soffit area and other areas of wasted space.
>
>
>> the crap they produce these days can't compare.
>
> Yet they have features that were unheard of when these originals were
> built.
>
>> And there are all sorts of internal
>> organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
>> can install them yourself).
>
> The ones I've seen work, yet don't necessarily provide enough new
> storage for my needs. I have some already.
>
> And, btw, just when you build custom
>> cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
>> A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.
>
> We were told 2 inches was all most manufacturers require. My husband
> prefers the entire side open, which also allows him to wiggle the fridge
> out and back easily.
>
>> There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
>> starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
>> ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
>> window.
>
> We need better lighting, the windows are fine (new!) I can't wait to
> have a single tall spigot that also turns into the sprayer, instead of
> the small annoying sprayer which is separate now. The only appliances we
> must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with built in
> exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model. I've never
> owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I do not want to
> feel closed in over my range in any way.
>
>
Unless you live in a cold climate don't get a range hood/exhaust fan
that exhausts back into the kitchen. They can warm up a kitchen by
several degrees. On our remodel I went for a hood and vented it up and
out through the roof. Also dispense kitchen/cooking odors more effectively.

On Thu 26 Jun 2008 02:53:28p, George Shirley told us...

> Goomba wrote:
>> Sheldon wrote:
>>
>>> Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
>>> perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry...
>>
>> That's how I feel about it too, but do not have the vision, energy or
>> desire to hobble it together. Whomever built these cupboards was
>> brilliant at construction, but did a lousy job utilizing space. Lots of
>> blind corners, wasted soffit area and other areas of wasted space.
>>
>>
>>> the crap they produce these days can't compare.
>>
>> Yet they have features that were unheard of when these originals were
>> built.
>>
>>> And there are all sorts of internal
>>> organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
>>> can install them yourself).
>>
>> The ones I've seen work, yet don't necessarily provide enough new
>> storage for my needs. I have some already.
>>
>> And, btw, just when you build custom
>>> cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
>>> A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.
>>
>> We were told 2 inches was all most manufacturers require. My husband
>> prefers the entire side open, which also allows him to wiggle the fridge
>> out and back easily.
>>
>>> There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
>>> starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
>>> ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
window.
>>
>> We need better lighting, the windows are fine (new!) I can't wait to
>> have a single tall spigot that also turns into the sprayer, instead of
>> the small annoying sprayer which is separate now. The only appliances we
>> must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with built in
>> exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model. I've never
>> owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I do not want to
>> feel closed in over my range in any way.
>>
>>
> Unless you live in a cold climate don't get a range hood/exhaust fan
> that exhausts back into the kitchen. They can warm up a kitchen by
> several degrees. On our remodel I went for a hood and vented it up and
> out through the roof. Also dispense kitchen/cooking odors more
effectively.
>

Our over the range microwave/exhaust fan exhausts to the outside. Most
models are capable of being vented either way, as recirculating our outside
vent/.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 06(VI)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
When the going gets weird, the weird
turn pro.
-------------------------------------------

George Shirley wrote:

> Unless you live in a cold climate don't get a range hood/exhaust fan
> that exhausts back into the kitchen. They can warm up a kitchen by
> several degrees. On our remodel I went for a hood and vented it up and
> out through the roof. Also dispense kitchen/cooking odors more effectively.

Our current vent exhausts to the outside, so we'll just reuse that same
stack I believe?
I would never waste my time just recirculating the air back into the
kitchen. Ugh.

Goomba wrote:
> We're re-doing the kitchen.

For what it's worth, in today's mail I got Consumer Reports.
Your Dream Kitchen for Less. Might be worth a look.

nancy

Goomba wrote:

> the small annoying sprayer which is separate now. The only appliances
> we must replace now will be the range and adding a microwave with
> built in exhaust fan, to take the place of the counter top model.
> I've never owned one over the range before and hope I'll like it? I
> do not want to feel closed in over my range in any way.

It's not a closed in feeling, but they don't make for very good
vents, either. It's worth it to me because I don't have another
place I want the microwave to go, but you might feel differently.

nancy

Goomba <[email protected]> news:[email protected]:
in rec.food.cooking

> We're re-doing the kitchen.

Have at it. We're almost winding down the kitchen and then they'll start
converting the formal living room into a great room.

> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
> narrow cabinets hung over the space.

We took the narrow,standard cabinets about out altogether. Our kitchen
is too narrow for the appliance cabinet panels. It would have closed in
the area too much although we did discuss it. We have a long galley
kitchen with a big square eating area at the end.

> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
> it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
> I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?

My brother has a big square kitchen with a separate breakfast area. His
appliances are all built into cabinets and they love it.

Since we bought a range last year to replace our old stove top we had 2
ovens. The range and a wall oven. The wall oven was replaced with a
smallish pantry cabinet with a pull out spice rack. I l love it.

>
> The storage space and special features in new cabinets are such fun to
> pick out! Our old cabinets were stick built on site and are incredibly
> sturdy and strong solid (SOLID!) wood everywhere. I hate to tear them
> down, but they truly have too much wasted space as well as being way
too
> dated looking. I wish I had the patience and vision to re-use some of
> the old and mix in some of the new and have it come out as it needs to.
> I'm going to ask our local Habitat for Humanity resale shop if they
have
> a market for them, assuming we can get them out easily? The doors
alone,
> being solid wood should have some chance of re-use somehow, right?

I think they will be of use for something, to someone. I'll send you some
pics of what we've done so far. It's almost finished. It was supposed to
be finished a few days ago but as usual we hit some snags. We pretty much
gutted our kitchen and started over. Good luck with the project. Our
biggest snag so far has been plumbing and electrical.

Michael



--
""There is no federal agency which oversees levees. That doesn't exist."
~~BUTCH KINERNEY, a spokesman for FEMA.

To email - michael at lonergan dot us dot com

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:05:01 -0400, Goomba <[email protected]> wrote:

>Robert Klute wrote:
>> I did it the other way around. On the wall where the refrigerator went
>> I made the lower and full-height cabinets 30" deep so I could inset a
>> standard unit. One advantage turned out I could put an appliance garage
>> along that whole wall, flush with the upper cabinets, and still have 18"
>> of counter space in front.
>
>Interesting!
>What did you use for your counters?

Granite slab. There are lots of wholesalers and independent finishers
clustered around them in my area, so it wasn't 'that' expensive.
However, any surface is workable, even standard 24" goods, as any seam
would be right under the garage doors and not noticeable.

"Goomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> We're re-doing the kitchen.

We're about to begin a 3-week kitchen renovation/remodeling project (start
date is a week from Monday) that will involve knocking down two walls and
installing new cabinets, countertops, backsplash, island, sink, lighting,
and flooring. Our kitchen is in desperate need of updating, so we're really
looking forward to the end result. (Note to self: remember to take "before"
pics next week...) The contractor we're using is top-rated and comes *very*
highly-recommended.

Good luck with your project!

Mary

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:03:06 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Jun 26, 4:35?pm, Goomba <Goomb...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> We're re-doing the kitchen.
>> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
>> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
>> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
>> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike
>> it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>>
>> We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on
>> them? I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>>
I think they are wonderful because I want to see everything I have in
the refrigerator without moving layers to see the back of the shelf.

>> The storage space and special features in new cabinets are such fun to
>> pick out! Our old cabinets were stick built on site and are incredibly
>> sturdy and strong solid (SOLID!) wood everywhere. I hate to tear them
>> down, but they truly have too much wasted space as well as being way too
>> dated looking. I wish I had the patience and vision to re-use some of
>> the old and mix in some of the new and have it come out as it needs to.
>> I'm going to ask our local Habitat for Humanity resale shop if they have
>> a market for them, assuming we can get them out easily? The doors alone,
>> being solid wood should have some chance of re-use somehow, right?
>
>Your cabinets can easily be refinished, it would be a sin to destroy
>perfectly good all real wood custom built cabinetry... the crap they
>produce these days can't compare. And there are all sorts of internal
>organizers for cabinets these days to make them more accomodating (you
>can install them yourself). And, btw, just when you build custom
>cabinets to enclose an old fridge, that's when that fridge will die.
>A fridge needs a certain amount of clearance to operate properly too.
>There are many ways to give a kitchen a face lift without gutting and
>starting over; new counters, new sink, new flooring, new wall and
>ceiling treatments, and especially new lighting, and maybe a new
>window.

I have to agree. There are companies that can come in a rehabilitate
old cabinets. It's a shame to throw them out. I have custom cabinets
too and I'm going to the HGTV thing, plus calling in a cabinet company
to do an interior make over. This is just a compromise. What I want
is a complete redo where work areas are redesigned and switched. We
don't belong to that economic strata - this is an expensive area where
the building code is strictly enforced and you have to get permits for
every little thing, so it's not going to happen.

OTOH: My kids made crap cabinets in crappy kitchens look wonderful.
They also painted the walls and put in new appliances, lighting and
countertops - the floors come next.

IMO: A cabinet makeover really does wonders. All it takes is a little
paint. Goomba doesn't even have to begin with crappy cabinets.

AFAIC: If people don't plan on changing the basic layout, they need
to think about working creatively with what they have.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

In our last kitchen the frig was framed in. I loved it. It was a side by
side and was easy to get in both sides.

"Goomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> We're re-doing the kitchen.
> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike it
> for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>
> We're also shopping for "cabinet depth" appliances. Any opinions on them?
> I'm undecided how much space I would lose in actual use?
>
> The storage space and special features in new cabinets are such fun to
> pick out! Our old cabinets were stick built on site and are incredibly
> sturdy and strong solid (SOLID!) wood everywhere. I hate to tear them
> down, but they truly have too much wasted space as well as being way too
> dated looking. I wish I had the patience and vision to re-use some of the
> old and mix in some of the new and have it come out as it needs to. I'm
> going to ask our local Habitat for Humanity resale shop if they have a
> market for them, assuming we can get them out easily? The doors alone,
> being solid wood should have some chance of re-use somehow, right?

"Goomba" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]..
> We're re-doing the kitchen.
> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or dislike it
> for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?

Weigh this opinion with the info that refrigerators here are 24" wide and
24" deep. What I would give for a deeper fridge! Party platter? You joke!
Even a large bird can be a problem, because yes, you can probably get it in
there, but what to do with all the displaced items? And remember that door
shelves intrude into that space, too.

I have never minded a nice sturdy fridge that looks like a frisge, but
during my design career used a lot of the dressed ones. There are people to
whom an undressed appliance is like having a toilet in the kitchen.

What I am really liking right now are the Thirties and Fifties looking
fridges that are all 21st century inside. I get fridge lust when I see
them.

Gloria P wrote:
> Goomba wrote:
>> We're re-doing the kitchen.
>> My husband is concerned with framing in the refrigerator with cabinet
>> panels, where now it just sits under those standard (under-utilized)
>> narrow cabinets hung over the space.
>> I'm seeking input from folks who have done this. Do you like or
>> dislike it for any particular reason? Will it feel too closed in?
>
>
> I'd be more worried about the motor overheating with no way to
> vent the heat if it were very closed-in.
>
> gloria p


Not to mention, how easy will it be to pull out from the enclosed space if
necessary?

Jill