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Thread: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

  1. #1
    ImStillMags Guest

    Default I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/op...eating.html?hp

  2. #2
    Michel Boucher Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    ImStillMags <[email protected]> wrote in news:114f76de-4efe-
    [email protected]:

    > He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.


    His point is valid:

    "Would I rather eat cruelly raised, polluting, unhealthful
    chicken, or a plant product that’s nutritionally similar or
    superior, good enough to fool me and requires no antibiotics,
    cutting off of heads or other nasty things? Isn’t it preferable,
    at least some of the time, to eat plant products mixed with water
    that have been put through a thingamajiggy that spews out
    meatlike stuff, instead of eating those same plant products put
    into a chicken that does its biomechanical thing for the six
    weeks of its miserable existence, only to have its throat cut in
    the service of yielding barely distinguishable meat?

    "Why, in other words, use the poor chicken as a machine to
    produce meat when you can use a machine to produce “meat” that
    seems like chicken?

    "I love good chicken, but most of the chicken we eat doesn’t
    qualify, and the question becomes more compelling as meat
    imitators gain sophistication."

    What he is saying is that between meat as an inferior product and
    vegetable matter which passes quite readily as meat, the
    vegetable matter is preferable, especially as nutritionally it is
    virtually identical.

    --

    "Dissent is what rescues democracy from a
    quiet death behind closed doors." -- Lewis
    H. Lapham

  3. #3
    Janet Bostwick Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 08:23:24 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.
    >
    >http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/op...eating.html?hp


    I would try it.
    Janet US

  4. #4
    Jim Elbrecht Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    ImStillMags <[email protected]> wrote:

    >He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.
    >
    >http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/op...eating.html?hp


    Lots of the fake meats and cheeses that I've been playing with the
    last year or so have been failures. [both purchased ones and home made
    ones]

    But I did a vegan buffalo chicken 'nuggets' that was excellent- corn
    dogs that were as good as the ballparks-- and home made Italian
    sausage that got raves from 4 diehard carnivores so far. None
    have been able to name the meat in them- and when I tell them it is
    wheat, they can't believe it. [and won't eat any more of that
    'vegan stuff']

    I'll be eating more tofu now that I see the variety [spices, textures,
    smoked. . .] and price of it in the Asian markets. So far I've had
    better luck using grains to simulate the texture of meat.

    A lot of it is mind over matter. I like sausage. Fake meat sausage
    is healthier than pork-- so I can eat more of it. Works for me.

    Jim

  5. #5
    jmcquown Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.


    "Jim Elbrecht" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > ImStillMags <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.
    >>
    >>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/op...eating.html?hp

    >
    > Lots of the fake meats and cheeses that I've been playing with the
    > last year or so have been failures. [both purchased ones and home made
    > ones]
    >
    > But I did a vegan buffalo chicken 'nuggets' that was excellent- corn
    > dogs that were as good as the ballparks-- and home made Italian
    > sausage that got raves from 4 diehard carnivores so far. None
    > have been able to name the meat in them- and when I tell them it is
    > wheat, they can't believe it. [and won't eat any more of that
    > 'vegan stuff']
    >
    > I'll be eating more tofu now that I see the variety [spices, textures,
    > smoked. . .] and price of it in the Asian markets. So far I've had
    > better luck using grains to simulate the texture of meat.
    >
    > A lot of it is mind over matter. I like sausage. Fake meat sausage
    > is healthier than pork-- so I can eat more of it. Works for me.
    >
    > Jim



    Maybe your friends just don't know the difference between a soy product and
    actual meat I've got nothing against soy, mind you. But trust me, I
    could tell the difference. The texture is completely different. I tried
    some of those Garden Burgers. They weren't bad, but they definitely weren't
    meat. I've tried soy breakfast sausages, too. Nope, no cigar.

    Jill


  6. #6
    Jerry Avins Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On 3/11/2012 11:23 AM, ImStillMags wrote:
    > He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.
    >
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/op...eating.html?hp


    To you and Jill: don't knock it till uou taste it. As for myself, if
    it's anything like chicken, it's not for me.

    Jerry
    --
    Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
    ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ

  7. #7
    jmcquown Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.


    "Jerry Avins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:Xa67r.30932$[email protected]..
    > On 3/11/2012 11:23 AM, ImStillMags wrote:
    >> He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.
    >>
    >> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/op...eating.html?hp

    >
    > To you and Jill: don't knock it till uou taste it. As for myself, if it's
    > anything like chicken, it's not for me.
    >
    > Jerry
    > --


    Yet another reason not to try fake chicken! I don't really care for
    chicken. I make some chicken dishes on occasion, sure. But it's not my
    favourite thing. So I certainly wouldn't eat a soy version of it. I'm
    definitely not going to taste it (assuming I could even find it where I
    live).

    Jill


  8. #8
    sf Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 08:23:24 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.
    >
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/op...eating.html?hp


    I've eaten soy products that would be hard to tell were not what they
    were mimicking if you didn't know already what it was.

    --
    Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

  9. #9
    sf Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:09:30 -0400, Jim Elbrecht <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > A lot of it is mind over matter. I like sausage. Fake meat sausage
    > is healthier than pork-- so I can eat more of it. Works for me.


    Sounds interesting, but what is the carb count in the wheat based
    stuff? I guess it wouldn't be good for people with gluten intolerance
    problems either.

    --
    Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

  10. #10
    Jeßus Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:09:30 -0400, Jim Elbrecht <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >ImStillMags <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.
    >>
    >>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/op...eating.html?hp

    >
    >Lots of the fake meats and cheeses that I've been playing with the
    >last year or so have been failures. [both purchased ones and home made
    >ones]
    >
    >But I did a vegan buffalo chicken 'nuggets' that was excellent- corn
    >dogs that were as good as the ballparks-- and home made Italian
    >sausage that got raves from 4 diehard carnivores so far. None
    >have been able to name the meat in them- and when I tell them it is
    >wheat, they can't believe it. [and won't eat any more of that
    >'vegan stuff']
    >
    >I'll be eating more tofu now that I see the variety [spices, textures,
    >smoked. . .] and price of it in the Asian markets. So far I've had
    >better luck using grains to simulate the texture of meat.
    >
    >A lot of it is mind over matter. I like sausage. Fake meat sausage
    >is healthier than pork-- so I can eat more of it. Works for me.


    Why would fake sausage meat be healthier?

  11. #11
    ImStillMags Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Mar 11, 12:42*pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
    > On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:09:30 -0400, Jim Elbrecht <elbre...@email.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > A lot of it is mind over matter. * *I like sausage. *Fake meat sausage
    > > is healthier than pork-- so I can eat more of it. * *Works for me.

    >
    > Sounds interesting, but what is the carb count in the wheat based
    > stuff? *I guess it wouldn't be good for people with gluten intolerance
    > problems either.
    >
    > --
    > Food is an important part of a balanced diet.


    If the products are made from US grown soy, it's GMO. As is the
    wheat. I prefer not to put
    that stuff in my body.

  12. #12
    Jeßus Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:41:59 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mar 11, 12:42*pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
    >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:09:30 -0400, Jim Elbrecht <elbre...@email.com>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> > A lot of it is mind over matter. * *I like sausage. *Fake meat sausage
    >> > is healthier than pork-- so I can eat more of it. * *Works for me.

    >>
    >> Sounds interesting, but what is the carb count in the wheat based
    >> stuff? *I guess it wouldn't be good for people with gluten intolerance
    >> problems either.
    >>

    >
    >If the products are made from US grown soy, it's GMO. As is the
    >wheat. I prefer not to put
    >that stuff in my body.


    Agreed. Fake meat or imitation anything is just anathema to me, it's
    bound to have questionable ingredients. If I have a problem with some
    meat, or any other food, I just don't bother with it at all, including
    trying to imitate it. I'd move on and eat something else.

  13. #13
    sf Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:41:59 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Mar 11, 12:42*pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
    > > On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:09:30 -0400, Jim Elbrecht <elbre...@email.com>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > > A lot of it is mind over matter. * *I like sausage. *Fake meat sausage
    > > > is healthier than pork-- so I can eat more of it. * *Works for me.

    > >
    > > Sounds interesting, but what is the carb count in the wheat based
    > > stuff? *I guess it wouldn't be good for people with gluten intolerance
    > > problems either.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

    >
    > If the products are made from US grown soy, it's GMO. As is the
    > wheat. I prefer not to put
    > that stuff in my body.


    I can't tell you any of that. I've only eaten it when someone has
    served it to me, I've never bought it and wouldn't even know where to
    look.

    --
    Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

  14. #14
    sf Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 07:29:02 +1100, Jeßus <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Why would fake sausage meat be healthier?


    I lacks animal fats.

    --
    Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

  15. #15
    Jeßus Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 14:08:27 -0700, sf <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 07:29:02 +1100, Jeßus <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Why would fake sausage meat be healthier?

    >
    >I lacks animal fats.


    I thought that might be it. If the fat is from a free
    range/organically fed animal, I have no problem with that at all.
    I love saturated fats!

  16. #16
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:32:04 -0500, Michel Boucher wrote:

    > "Why, in other words, use the poor chicken as a machine to
    > produce meat when you can use a machine to produce “meat” that
    > seems like chicken?


    When consumers see how are these plant products are folded, spindled,
    mutilated, treated with all sorts of chemicals and otherwise produced,
    they won't be very popular.

    People this week are complaining about pink slime. It's (supposedly)
    not dangerous to eat, but it goes through less processing and
    treatment than some of these fake meat products. WHt sort oif
    chemical and biological changes go on in the processing of these fake
    meat products? And are THEY unhealthful? Time will tell.

    As for Mark Bitmann - everybody has their price. Celebrities make
    great lobbyists and mouthpieces.

    -sw

  17. #17
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.


    > If the products are made from US grown soy, it's GMO. As is the
    > wheat. I prefer not to put
    > that stuff in my body.


    Add GMO to my gripe above. There's no telling what GMO products are
    doing to America. Rates of practically every disease and affliction
    are on the rise.

    -sw

  18. #18
    sf Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 08:24:17 +1100, Jeßus <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 14:08:27 -0700, sf <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 07:29:02 +1100, Jeßus <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Why would fake sausage meat be healthier?

    > >
    > >It lacks animal fats.

    >
    > I thought that might be it. If the fat is from a free
    > range/organically fed animal, I have no problem with that at all.
    > I love saturated fats!


    Then you have no reason to even think about it. There are people
    whose doctors have told them to limit saturated fats, especially
    animal fats, and they are the people who would consider it.

    --
    Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

  19. #19
    George M. Middius Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    sf wrote:

    >I can't tell you any of that. I've only eaten it when someone has
    >served it to me, I've never bought it and wouldn't even know where to
    >look.


    Natural-foods stores are the best place.


  20. #20
    Tim May Guest

    Default Re: I love Mark Bittman, but he's waaaay off base here.

    On 2012-03-11 16:09:30 +0000, Jim Elbrecht said:

    > ImStillMags <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> He is actually praising fake chicken. Um, NO.
    >>
    >> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/op...eating.html?hp
    >>

    >
    > Lots of the fake meats and cheeses that I've been playing with the
    > last year or so have been failures. [both purchased ones and home made
    > ones]
    >
    > But I did a vegan buffalo chicken 'nuggets' that was excellent- corn
    > dogs that were as good as the ballparks-- and home made Italian
    > sausage that got raves from 4 diehard carnivores so far. None
    > have been able to name the meat in them- and when I tell them it is
    > wheat, they can't believe it. [and won't eat any more of that
    > 'vegan stuff']


    I've been eating _more_ meat (beef, pork, chicken, lamb, and seafood)
    and _less_ wheat/rice/beans/carbs than ever.

    (Some call it the paleo diet. Some call it other things. But, fact is,
    we humans spent 98% of the last half million years of our evolution
    eating what we could gather or hunt or fish for or scavenge for along
    the seashore. We had no wheat or rice or corn or other grains and
    legumes until about the last 10,000 years, an eyeblink in terms of our
    evolution.)

    Some say eating carbs makes us fat....something my mother knew 50 years
    ago (until in her later years she was seduced by the "low-fat"
    drumbeat).

    >
    > I'll be eating more tofu now that I see the variety [spices, textures,
    > smoked. . .] and price of it in the Asian markets. So far I've had
    > better luck using grains to simulate the texture of meat.


    Tofu is also a grain-based product that spikes the glycemic index.

    >
    > A lot of it is mind over matter. I like sausage. Fake meat sausage
    > is healthier than pork-- so I can eat more of it. Works for me.


    Many of us are now cooking with bacon fat, when available, or lard
    (real lard, not the vegetable oil product now widely sold as lard).

    But we don't need to convince you to change.

    --
    Tim May


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