Thread: Convection oven learning curve?

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:09:57 -0500, "Polly Esther"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't want to waste
> precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother.

I'm definitely lukewarm about the convection setting. It's not worth
the bother.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On 8/22/2011 6:09 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
> Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
> convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not
> likely to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
> What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling cooking
> times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster one?
> Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to waste
> precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly

My guess is that it would be useful for items that need browning. I
suspect that it might work on making a crispy duck or pork skin but I
never make stuff like that anyway. I used to think that it would be neat
to have a convection oven but now that I have one, I've actually only
used it a couple of times. I did think that forced convection cooking
would work just swell for my dutch baby pancakes but for some reason, it
suppresses the rising of the egg mixture. The next time I bake a cake,
I'll make it a point to try the convection setting.

OTOH, I think that having forced air circulation is a good idea for
small tabletop toaster-oven type appliances. You wouldn't be able to
roast a chicken in a toaster oven but if you have a fan moving the air
around, the results turn out pretty good.

"Polly Esther" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
> convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not
> likely to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
> What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling
> cooking times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a
> faster one?
> Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to
> waste precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly

I have two ovens, one with and one without. If I have a lot to cook/bake I
use the big oven (with)

--
http://www.shop.helpforheros.org.uk

In article <4e53614d$0$13019$[email protected] >,
dsi1 <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 8/22/2011 6:09 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
> > Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
> > convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not
> > likely to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
> > What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling cooking
> > times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster one?
> > Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to waste
> > precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly
>
> My guess is that it would be useful for items that need browning. I
> suspect that it might work on making a crispy duck or pork skin but I
> never make stuff like that anyway. I used to think that it would be neat
> to have a convection oven but now that I have one, I've actually only
> used it a couple of times. I did think that forced convection cooking
> would work just swell for my dutch baby pancakes but for some reason, it
> suppresses the rising of the egg mixture. The next time I bake a cake,
> I'll make it a point to try the convection setting.
>
> OTOH, I think that having forced air circulation is a good idea for
> small tabletop toaster-oven type appliances. You wouldn't be able to
> roast a chicken in a toaster oven but if you have a fan moving the air
> around, the results turn out pretty good.

I use the convection setting constantly for roasting meat. The only
time I don't use it is when I'm broiling something.

Since the oven is so small, I think it cooks things more evenly and I
set my cooking times and temps the same as I would for a large oven.
Average for meat cooking (pork and chicken) is 15 minutes per lb. at
375. I turn the temp up for beef to sear, then turn it back down and
cook for a shorter time. Usually 10 minutes per lb. at 350 and use a
meat thermometer and bring the internal temp for beef to 130 degrees to
get a slightly rarer than medium rare finished roast. I use the
convection setting for beef as well. The meat thermometer takes priority
over any set timing.

Works good for biscuits too on the rare occasion I bake them, and I use
it for baking lightly breaded fish fillets also but those go 20 to 25
minutes at 400 degrees. Gets them crispy. :-)
--
Peace, Om
Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have
come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
-- Mark Twain

Polly Esther wrote:
>
> Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
> convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not likely
> to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
> What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling cooking
> times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster one?
> Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to waste
> precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly

The learning curve is about 3.5 seconds. Once you learn how to push the
convection button you will rarely if ever us non convection mode. It's
done when it's done and you have to watch what you're cooking as with
any cooking, if you are going by book times, you aren't cooking. You
usually won't need to adjust temps either and many convection ovens with
electronic controls do that for you.

sf wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:09:57 -0500, "Polly Esther"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I don't want to waste
> > precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother.
>
> I'm definitely lukewarm about the convection setting. It's not worth
> the bother.

Clearly you haven't bothered to learn why it is worth the bother of
pressing the "convection" button.

dsi1 wrote:
>
> On 8/22/2011 6:09 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
> > Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
> > convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not
> > likely to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
> > What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling cooking
> > times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster one?
> > Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to waste
> > precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly
>
> My guess is that it would be useful for items that need browning. I
> suspect that it might work on making a crispy duck or pork skin but I
> never make stuff like that anyway. I used to think that it would be neat
> to have a convection oven but now that I have one, I've actually only
> used it a couple of times. I did think that forced convection cooking
> would work just swell for my dutch baby pancakes but for some reason, it
> suppresses the rising of the egg mixture. The next time I bake a cake,
> I'll make it a point to try the convection setting.
>
> OTOH, I think that having forced air circulation is a good idea for
> small tabletop toaster-oven type appliances. You wouldn't be able to
> roast a chicken in a toaster oven but if you have a fan moving the air
> around, the results turn out pretty good.

It's rare that I don't use convection mode, and it should be the same
for you. I'll note that the bulk of commercial ovens are convection
only.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:09:57 -0500, "Polly Esther"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
>convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not likely
>to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
> What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling cooking
>times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster one?
> Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to waste
>precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly

I don't use it when baking bread as the circulating air dries the skin
of the bread too early and limits the rise. I use it when baking
cookies and cakes. I use it when I have a covered dish in the oven
(definitely faster then). I use it when heating frozen foods because
it dries them. Otherwise I could get along without it.
Janet US

On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 06:47:36 -0600, Janet Bostwick
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:09:57 -0500, "Polly Esther"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
>>convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not likely
>>to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
>> What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling cooking
>>times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster one?
>> Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to waste
>>precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly
>
>I don't use it when baking bread as the circulating air dries the skin
>of the bread too early and limits the rise. I use it when baking
>cookies and cakes. I use it when I have a covered dish in the oven
>(definitely faster then). I use it when heating frozen foods because
>it dries them. Otherwise I could get along without it.
>Janet US


I do all my baking with convection. I cannot recall the last time I
used the oven without the fan. I wouldn't know how to bake anymore
without it.

Boron

Polly,

The cooking time is somewhere between conventional and microwave, just not
sure where. I forget the reduction in cooking reduction time. Maybe 20% It
was loosely explained in the user manual (ugh!).

Do pay attention to things like roasts! For example, I convection oven
roasted a 2-lb. chateaubriand in my cheapo counter top toaster convection
oven. It swelled up to the point that it practically shoehorned itself
between the tray and the top of the oven, going from 2" to 4" thick. A
thing of beauty but a close call!

Best,

Andy

On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:53:04 -0400, Boron Elgar
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 06:47:36 -0600, Janet Bostwick
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:09:57 -0500, "Polly Esther"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
>>>convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not likely
>>>to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
>>> What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling cooking
>>>times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster one?
>>> Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to waste
>>>precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly
>>
>>I don't use it when baking bread as the circulating air dries the skin
>>of the bread too early and limits the rise. I use it when baking
>>cookies and cakes. I use it when I have a covered dish in the oven
>>(definitely faster then). I use it when heating frozen foods because
>>it dries them. Otherwise I could get along without it.
>>Janet US
>
>
>I do all my baking with convection. I cannot recall the last time I
>used the oven without the fan. I wouldn't know how to bake anymore
>without it.
>
>Boron

Yes, I caught that. I'll have to try again and see what I think. At
the time I made that decision, I was working on very slack, lean
dough, retarded over night in the fridge and raised in a basket. This
was years ago. It's quite likely that my oven is smaller than yours,
resulting in my bread being much closer to the fan. We'll see. This
experiment is several months off.
Janet US

sf <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:09:57 -0500, "Polly Esther"

>> I don't want to waste
>> precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother.

>I'm definitely lukewarm about the convection setting. It's not worth
>the bother.

What's clear is you don't want to use an oven that has the wrong
level of convection for what you're trying to achieve.

What's less clear is that a consumer-grade convection oven helps solve
this problem in very many cases. Convection ovens can function as
normal ovens, or they can add a greater degree of convection than that
of a normal non-convection oven. What's not clear to me is that
they have an adjustment allowing a lesser degree of convection than normal
ovens.

The reason this is important is it is more common for a home oven
to have too much convection rather than too little. So I can
envision it as possible that the convection feature never helps,
or helps only a small fraction of time.

(I can also envision a home convection oven being baffled in such
a way that with the convection fans turns off, if has very little
natural convection, in which case it might indeed be useful, but
this is not my impression.)

An ideal oven would allow you to control all three variables --
temperature, convection, and humidity -- over their entire useful
ranges. AFAIK only commercial ovens (and then, only some of them)
can do this.

Steve

On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 13:43:52 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>sf <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:09:57 -0500, "Polly Esther"
>
>>> I don't want to waste
>>> precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother.
>
>>I'm definitely lukewarm about the convection setting. It's not worth
>>the bother.
>
>What's clear is you don't want to use an oven that has the wrong
>level of convection for what you're trying to achieve.
>
>What's less clear is that a consumer-grade convection oven helps solve
>this problem in very many cases. Convection ovens can function as
>normal ovens, or they can add a greater degree of convection than that
>of a normal non-convection oven. What's not clear to me is that
>they have an adjustment allowing a lesser degree of convection than normal
>ovens.
>
>The reason this is important is it is more common for a home oven
>to have too much convection rather than too little. So I can
>envision it as possible that the convection feature never helps,
>or helps only a small fraction of time.
>
>(I can also envision a home convection oven being baffled in such
>a way that with the convection fans turns off, if has very little
>natural convection, in which case it might indeed be useful, but
>this is not my impression.)
>
>An ideal oven would allow you to control all three variables --
>temperature, convection, and humidity -- over their entire useful
>ranges. AFAIK only commercial ovens (and then, only some of them)
>can do this.
>
>Steve


I am not sure what "too much convection" is. I don't use it that much
but my oven has a setting where it automatically reduces the
temperature when using convection. You set the oven for the regular
temperature and it automatically drops it 23 degrees.

I also have a Proof setting which uses the fan and the light bulb
only. Does a good job when I am in a hurry or not making a special
bread.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 06:47:36 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 23:09:57 -0500, "Polly Esther"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has
>>> the
>>>convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not
>>>likely
>>>to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
>>> What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling
>>> cooking
>>>times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster
>>>one?
>>> Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to
>>> waste
>>>precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly
>>
>>I don't use it when baking bread as the circulating air dries the skin
>>of the bread too early and limits the rise. I use it when baking
>>cookies and cakes. I use it when I have a covered dish in the oven
>>(definitely faster then). I use it when heating frozen foods because
>>it dries them. Otherwise I could get along without it.
>>Janet US
>
>
> I do all my baking with convection. I cannot recall the last time I
> used the oven without the fan. I wouldn't know how to bake anymore
> without it.

Same here. I also use it when I have a full oven because the temp is the
same throughout.

--
http://www.shop.helpforheros.org.uk

The Cook wrote:
>
> I am not sure what "too much convection" is.

"Too much convection" really only applies to baked goods, where if the
convection airflow is too strong the item can bake lopsided. The top of
the line German oven at the bakery I work with has two features to
address this problem, it reverses the convection fan direction every 60
seconds to balance the airflow, and it also has 8 convection fan speed
settings (none of which is off).

On 8/23/2011 1:11 AM, Omelet wrote:
> I use the convection setting constantly for roasting meat. The only
> time I don't use it is when I'm broiling something.
>
> Since the oven is so small, I think it cooks things more evenly and I
> set my cooking times and temps the same as I would for a large oven.
> Average for meat cooking (pork and chicken) is 15 minutes per lb. at
> 375. I turn the temp up for beef to sear, then turn it back down and
> cook for a shorter time. Usually 10 minutes per lb. at 350 and use a
> meat thermometer and bring the internal temp for beef to 130 degrees to
> get a slightly rarer than medium rare finished roast. I use the
> convection setting for beef as well. The meat thermometer takes priority
> over any set timing.
>
> Works good for biscuits too on the rare occasion I bake them, and I use
> it for baking lightly breaded fish fillets also but those go 20 to 25
> minutes at 400 degrees. Gets them crispy. :-)

If I had a smaller oven, I'd probably be inclined to use the fan more
often. My guess is that American style ovens do a good job of baking and
roasting without forced air circulation because their spacious
accommodations allow plenty of air movement. I also don't really load up
my oven when cooking but I can imagine that some cooks do. Turning on a
fan would probably be a good idea under those circumstances too.

On 8/23/2011 1:56 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> dsi1 wrote:
>>
>> On 8/22/2011 6:09 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
>>> Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
>>> convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not
>>> likely to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
>>> What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling cooking
>>> times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster one?
>>> Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to waste
>>> precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly
>>
>> My guess is that it would be useful for items that need browning. I
>> suspect that it might work on making a crispy duck or pork skin but I
>> never make stuff like that anyway. I used to think that it would be neat
>> to have a convection oven but now that I have one, I've actually only
>> used it a couple of times. I did think that forced convection cooking
>> would work just swell for my dutch baby pancakes but for some reason, it
>> suppresses the rising of the egg mixture. The next time I bake a cake,
>> I'll make it a point to try the convection setting.
>>
>> OTOH, I think that having forced air circulation is a good idea for
>> small tabletop toaster-oven type appliances. You wouldn't be able to
>> roast a chicken in a toaster oven but if you have a fan moving the air
>> around, the results turn out pretty good.
>
> It's rare that I don't use convection mode, and it should be the same
> for you. I'll note that the bulk of commercial ovens are convection
> only.

I don't have any objections to this - all I need is at least one
compelling reason.

The Cook <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 13:43:52 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]

>>What's clear is you don't want to use an oven that has the wrong
>>level of convection for what you're trying to achieve.

>>What's less clear is that a consumer-grade convection oven helps solve
>>this problem in very many cases.

>I am not sure what "too much convection" is. I don't use it that much
>but my oven has a setting where it automatically reduces the
>temperature when using convection. You set the oven for the regular
>temperature and it automatically drops it 23 degrees.
>
>I also have a Proof setting which uses the fan and the light bulb
>only. Does a good job when I am in a hurry or not making a special
>bread.

The proof setting sounds useful.

My impression is that in a "too much convection" situation, something
like a beef roast, a turkey or a chicken will become too dried out
before it roasts properly. The same may happen to cakes or bread.

Steve

dsi1 wrote:
>
> On 8/23/2011 1:56 AM, Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > dsi1 wrote:
> >>
> >> On 8/22/2011 6:09 PM, Polly Esther wrote:
> >>> Our wonderful new range ( two years old but I'm still learning) has the
> >>> convection ability. ( It also has the Sabbath mode but since I'm not
> >>> likely to become Jewish I haven't gone to that chapter of the manual).
> >>> What are your thoughts on convection? Is it worth re-scheduling cooking
> >>> times and temperatures? Can you produce a better anything or a faster one?
> >>> Gently keep in mind that I'm a great-grandmother. I don't want to waste
> >>> precious time learning a skill that's not worth the bother. Polly
> >>
> >> My guess is that it would be useful for items that need browning. I
> >> suspect that it might work on making a crispy duck or pork skin but I
> >> never make stuff like that anyway. I used to think that it would be neat
> >> to have a convection oven but now that I have one, I've actually only
> >> used it a couple of times. I did think that forced convection cooking
> >> would work just swell for my dutch baby pancakes but for some reason, it
> >> suppresses the rising of the egg mixture. The next time I bake a cake,
> >> I'll make it a point to try the convection setting.
> >>
> >> OTOH, I think that having forced air circulation is a good idea for
> >> small tabletop toaster-oven type appliances. You wouldn't be able to
> >> roast a chicken in a toaster oven but if you have a fan moving the air
> >> around, the results turn out pretty good.
> >
> > It's rare that I don't use convection mode, and it should be the same
> > for you. I'll note that the bulk of commercial ovens are convection
> > only.
>
> I don't have any objections to this - all I need is at least one
> compelling reason.

Fan forced convection eliminates temperature stratification and promotes
airflow around the food for more even cooking.

Contrary to myth, fan forced convection does not contribute to foods
"drying out". It is not a case of a dehydrator where the fan brings
warmed fresh air past the food and then exhausts it, a convection oven
circulates air inside the oven only and thus has no effect on the
humidity level or the rate that moisture evaporates from the food.

The "too much convection" really only applies to cakes and similar where
too much airflow can cause them to bake lopsided. I covered this issue
in another post and noted how high end commercial ovens deal with this
issue.