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Thread: cholesterol

  1. #81
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: cholesterol

    Mark Thorson wrote:
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >> "John John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> Which ones are ok?

    >> Coconut oil.

    >
    > Baloney. There are quack "diet" experts who claim coconut
    > oil is healthful, but the scientific evidence is against
    > them. They peddle this line because that's how you
    > get notoriety in the diet field. You don't get famous
    > by agreeing with mainstream medicine and peer-reviewed
    > literature. You get famous by saying the conventional
    > wisdom is wrong. Unfortunately, a lot of people are
    > getting suckered into believing these crackpot theories.
    >
    > This study blames the MUCH higher rate of
    > cardiovascular mortality in Singapore as compared
    > to Hong Kong on consumption of saturated fats
    > including coconut oil.
    >
    > Eur J Epidemiol. 2001;17(5):469-77.
    > Differences in all-cause, cardiovascular and
    > cancer mortality between Hong Kong and Singapore:
    > role of nutrition.
    > Zhang J, Kesteloot H.
    > Department of Epidemiology, School of Public
    > Health, Catholic University of Leuven, Belgium.
    >
    > BACKGROUND: The majority of inhabitants in Hong Kong
    > and Singapore are ethnic Chinese, but all-cause and
    > cardiovascular mortality rates in these two regions
    > are markedly different. This study describes
    > differences in the magnitude and trends in mortality
    > and attempts to explain these differences.
    >
    > METHODS: Data of mortality rates in 1963-1965 and
    > 1993-1995 in the age class of 45-74 years, dietary
    > habits and other factors were compared between
    > Hong Kong and Singapore using Japan, Spain and the USA
    > as reference countries. Mortality and food consumption
    > data were obtained from WHO and FAO, respectively.
    >
    > RESULTS: Large differences in all-cause and cardiovascular
    > mortality exist between Hong Kong and Singapore. The
    > difference in total cancer mortality was less consistent
    > and smaller. The most pronounced finding was that ischemic
    > heart disease mortality in 1993-1995 was 2.98 and 3.14 times
    > higher in Singapore than in Hong Kong in men and women,
    > respectively. Of the five countries considered, Singapore
    > has the highest all-cause mortality in both sexes in the
    > period of 1960-1995. The ratio of animal to vegetal fat
    > was higher in Singapore (2.24) than in Hong Kong (1.08).
    > Singapore had higher serum concentrations of total
    > cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol
    > than Hong Kong, but the opposite result was observed
    > for high-density lipoprotein cholesterol.
    >
    > CONCLUSIONS: There are striking differences in all-cause
    > and cardiovascular mortality between Hong Kong and
    > Singapore. These differences can be most reasonably and
    > plausibly explained by their differences in dietary
    > habits, for example, a higher consumption of coconut and
    > palm oil, mainly containing saturated fat, in Singapore.
    >
    > [Coconut oil raises bad cholesterol more than
    > beef fat!]
    >
    > Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 Aug;42(2):190-7.
    > Plasma lipid and lipoprotein response of humans
    > to beef fat, coconut oil and safflower oil.
    > Reiser R, Probstfield JL, Silvers A, Scott LW,
    > Shorney ML, Wood RD, O'Brien BC, Gotto AM Jr,
    > Insull W Jr.
    >
    > This study's purpose was to evaluate the fasting
    > human plasma lipid and lipoprotein responses to
    > dietary beef fat (BF) by comparison with coconut
    > oil (CO) and safflower oil (SO), fats customarily
    > classified as saturated and polyunsaturated.
    > Nineteen free-living normolipidemic men aged
    > 25.6 +/- 3.5 yr consumed centrally-prepared
    > lunches and dinners of common foods having 35%
    > fat calories, 60% of which was the test fat.
    > The test fats were isocalorically substituted,
    > and each fed for five weeks in random sequences
    > with intervening five weeks of habitual diets.
    > Plasma total cholesterol (TC), high-density
    > lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), and low-density
    > lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) concentrations
    > among individuals follows the same relative rank
    > regardless of diet. Triglycerides (TG)
    > concentrations among individuals also maintain
    > their relative rank regardless of diet but in
    > a different order from that of the cholesterols.
    > Plasma TC, HDL-C, and LDL-C responses to BF were
    > significantly lower and TG higher than to CO.
    > As compared to SO, BF produced equivalent levels
    > of TG, HDL-C, and LDL-C and marginally higher TC.
    > Thus, the customary consideration of BF as
    > "saturated" and grouping it with CO appears
    > unwarranted.
    >
    > This study in a rat model for myocardial
    > infarction (induced with a synthetic hormone)
    > found omega-3 fatty acids to be protective
    > against lipid peroxidation and cardiovascular
    > death, while coconut oil raised indicators of
    > damage to the heart muscle.
    >
    > J Nutr Biochem. 1999 Jun;10(6):338-44.
    > Effect of saturated, omega-3 and omega-6
    > polyunsaturated fatty acids on myocardial
    > infarction.
    > Nageswari K, Banerjee R, Menon VP.
    > School of Biomedical Engineering, Indian
    > Institute of Technology, Bombay, India.
    >
    > Dietary fatty acids have cholesterol lowering,
    > antiatherogenic, and antiarrhythmic properties
    > that decrease the risk of myocardial infarction (MI).
    > This study was designed to study the effects of
    > various oils rich in either polyunsaturated
    > (omega-3 or omega-6) fatty acids (PUFA) or
    > saturated fatty acids (SFA) on the severity of
    > experimentally induced MI. Male albino Sprague-Dawley
    > rats (100-150 g; n = 20) were fed diets enriched with
    > fish oil (omega-3 PUFA), peanut oil (omega-6 PUFA),
    > or coconut oil (SFA) for 60 days. Experimental MI was
    > induced with isoproterenol. Mortality rates; serum
    > enzymes aspartate amino transferase; alanine amino
    > transferase; creatine phosphokinase (CPK); lipid
    > profiles in serum, myocardium, and aorta; peroxide
    > levels in heart and aorta; activities of catalase and
    > superoxide dismutase; and levels of glutathione were
    > measured. The results demonstrated that mortality rate,
    > CPK levels, myocardial lipid peroxides, and glutathione
    > levels were decreased in the omega-3 PUFA treated group.
    > Maximum increase in parameters indicative of myocardial
    > damage was seen in the coconut oil group. These findings
    > suggest that dietary omega-3 PUFA offers maximum
    > protection in experimentally induced MI in comparison
    > to omega-6 PUFA and SFA enriched diets. SFA was found
    > to have the least protective effect.


    Those studies are rather old. What is the CURRENT thinking on
    this matter?

    --

  2. #82
    Bryan Guest

    Default Re: cholesterol

    On Sunday, September 30, 2012 12:27:53 AM UTC-5, Reggie wrote:
    > "Bryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > news:[email protected]..
    >
    > On Sep 29, 7:07 pm, "Reggie" <Reg...@wantsnospam.com> wrote:
    >
    > > "Bryan" <bryangsimm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

    >
    > >

    >
    > > news:[email protected]..

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > > On Saturday, September 29, 2012 6:38:20 PM UTC-5, Reggie wrote:

    >
    > > > "Mark Thorson" <nos...@sonic.net> wrote in message

    >
    > >

    >
    > > >news:[email protected]..

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > > Dave Smith wrote:

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> On 29/09/2012 7:59 AM, Somebody wrote:

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> > "Julie Bove" <julieb...@frontier.com> wrote in message

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> >news:k4697u$1ek$[email protected]..

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> >>> Which ones are ok?

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> >> Coconut oil.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> > egads! Even Mitt Romney would not make a joke like that.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> The information booklet I got in cardiac rehab suggested eating lots

    >
    > > > >> of

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> fruit and vegetables, but in capitals it says ...NOT COCONUT. It is

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> apparently very high in cholesterol. When I asked about the claimsof

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> health benefits of the good cholesterol it was suggested that is hype

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> from the people selling it. IN my situation, I think I am better off

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > >> following the advice of the health professionals.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > > Yes, coconut oil is even worse than beef fat

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > > and lard. It's being hyped by the "alternative

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > > medicine" crowd that rejects medical science.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > > but beef fat and lard are healthy. you need to stay current.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > No, they are not. They just aren't as relatively bad as once thought, but

    >
    > > that's not because they are good, but because the inflammatory effects of

    >
    > > polyunsaturates are more well understood. Beef fat and lard are high in

    >
    > > palmitic and myristic acids. Those are baddies.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > --Bryan

    >
    > >

    >
    > > their large component is oleic, a goodie.

    >
    >
    >
    > But there are sources of oleic that do not have the downside of being
    >
    > high in palmitic and myristic. On the upside, beef/pork fats are also
    >
    > high in stearic, and very low in polyunsaturates. I eat way more beef
    >
    > and pork fat than I figure is optimal because I love beef and bacon,
    >
    > and certain other pork products, but I do try to limit them. My
    >
    > saturated fat weakness is butterfat, which is even worse, but that I
    >
    > find totally delicious. There is some evidence that the bad saturated
    >
    > fats have less impact when consumed as part of a ketogenic diet
    >
    > regime. That makes sense because if ones body is optimized for
    >
    > converting fatty acids to ketones, then more fatty acids are
    >
    > indiscriminately broken down for fueling metabolism. Carb restriction
    >
    > certainly lowers plasma triglycerides.
    >
    >
    >
    > --Bryan
    >
    >
    >
    > ok, now that I think of it; where is there a table of fats/oils, listing
    >
    > components like stearic acid (rather than just saturated, mono, etc.)?


    Just put the search terms into Wikipedia, Google, etc. and don't believe what I say without doing your own research. You will find that high oleic oils are healthful, and that stearic acid is a healthful thing, unlike some of the other saturated fatty acids.

    --Bryan

  3. #83
    gregz Guest

    Default Re: cholesterol

    Bryan <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 12:27:53 AM UTC-5, Reggie wrote:
    >> "Bryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>
    >> news:[email protected]..
    >>
    >> On Sep 29, 7:07 pm, "Reggie" <Reg...@wantsnospam.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Bryan" <bryangsimm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>> news:[email protected]..

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>> On Saturday, September 29, 2012 6:38:20 PM UTC-5, Reggie wrote:

    >>
    >>>> "Mark Thorson" <nos...@sonic.net> wrote in message

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>> news:[email protected]..

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>> Dave Smith wrote:

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>> On 29/09/2012 7:59 AM, Somebody wrote:

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>>> "Julie Bove" <julieb...@frontier.com> wrote in message

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>>> news:k4697u$1ek$[email protected]..

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>>>>> Which ones are ok?

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>>>> Coconut oil.

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>>> egads! Even Mitt Romney would not make a joke like that.

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>> The information booklet I got in cardiac rehab suggested eating lots

    >>
    >>>>>> of

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>> fruit and vegetables, but in capitals it says ...NOT COCONUT. It is

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>> apparently very high in cholesterol. When I asked about the claims of

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>> health benefits of the good cholesterol it was suggested that is hype

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>> from the people selling it. IN my situation, I think I am better off

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>>> following the advice of the health professionals.

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>> Yes, coconut oil is even worse than beef fat

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>> and lard. It's being hyped by the "alternative

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>> medicine" crowd that rejects medical science.

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>>> but beef fat and lard are healthy. you need to stay current.

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>> No, they are not. They just aren't as relatively bad as once thought, but

    >>
    >>> that's not because they are good, but because the inflammatory effects of

    >>
    >>> polyunsaturates are more well understood. Beef fat and lard are high in

    >>
    >>> palmitic and myristic acids. Those are baddies.

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>> --Bryan

    >>
    >>>

    >>
    >>> their large component is oleic, a goodie.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> But there are sources of oleic that do not have the downside of being
    >>
    >> high in palmitic and myristic. On the upside, beef/pork fats are also
    >>
    >> high in stearic, and very low in polyunsaturates. I eat way more beef
    >>
    >> and pork fat than I figure is optimal because I love beef and bacon,
    >>
    >> and certain other pork products, but I do try to limit them. My
    >>
    >> saturated fat weakness is butterfat, which is even worse, but that I
    >>
    >> find totally delicious. There is some evidence that the bad saturated
    >>
    >> fats have less impact when consumed as part of a ketogenic diet
    >>
    >> regime. That makes sense because if ones body is optimized for
    >>
    >> converting fatty acids to ketones, then more fatty acids are
    >>
    >> indiscriminately broken down for fueling metabolism. Carb restriction
    >>
    >> certainly lowers plasma triglycerides.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> --Bryan
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ok, now that I think of it; where is there a table of fats/oils, listing
    >>
    >> components like stearic acid (rather than just saturated, mono, etc.)?

    >
    > Just put the search terms into Wikipedia, Google, etc. and don't believe
    > what I say without doing your own research. You will find that high
    > oleic oils are healthful, and that stearic acid is a healthful thing,
    > unlike some of the other saturated fatty acids.
    >
    > --Bryan


    They can also be useful in making a good electrical contact cleaner. Oleic
    acid.

    Greg

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