Thread: Brining meat

On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:09:38 -0700, The Other Guy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 12:04:19 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 08:06:30 -0400, Gary <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>The Other Guy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 23:18:11 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> > Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Why is it common to brine pork and poultry, but not beef?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It's more common to brine beef.
>>>> >> Corned beef.
>>>> >> Sauerbratten.
>>>> >> It's more common than all the rest together to brine fish.
>>>> >
>>>> >Corned beef, eh? Didn't know that.
>>>>
>>>> And, of course, pastrami.
>>>
>>>And also....."corned" is another word for "brined in salt water."
>>
>>Pastrami is essentially smoked corned beef.
>
>Pastrami is peppered rather than using corned beef spices,
>totally different taste.

Yes, it's seasoned differently after brining but it's still smoked
corned beef. The better pastramis are also made from a differeent cut
of the brisket, the cap or the deckle, very difficlut to find. Of
course nowaday most of yoose have only tasted pastami made from beef
rounds, or worse, poultry. The kosher delis are for all intents and
purposes gone forever (the very few that still exist are not permitted
to prepare foods properly (thank the know nothing health departments),
the viands at kosher *style* delis aren't even close.

On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 07:47:23 -0400, Gary wrote:

> So...we got buy one(too salty) get two more good ones for free.

I complained about a too-lean duck and the company sent me a check for
$20 (it only cost $14) and they sent me a new duck, too. So basically
they paid me $6 to eat two ducks.

-sw

On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:48:13 -0600, Janet Bostwick wrote:

> Injected meat is a whole different thing than brining. With
> injection, you are actually adding liquid to the meat. With brining,
> there is an exchange. IMO

Brines do increase the weight of meat - about 6-10% for poultry,
slightly less for pork. Same with injections. Injections often
incorporate phosphates so that more liquid can be pumped into the meat
and have it stay there. Also less water renders out of the meta when
phosphates are used.

-sw

On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:09:38 -0700, The Other Guy wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 12:04:19 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>
>>Pastrami is essentially smoked corned beef.
>
> Pastrami is peppered rather than using corned beef spices,
> totally different taste.

I have never seen a pastrami recipe that doesn't include pickling-type
spices in it's brine or rub. It's more the norm than the exception.

-sw

"Gary" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]..
> The Other Guy wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 23:18:11 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>,
>> > Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >Why is it common to brine pork and poultry, but not beef?
>> >>
>> >> It's more common to brine beef.
>> >> Corned beef.
>> >> Sauerbratten.
>> >> It's more common than all the rest together to brine fish.
>> >
>> >Corned beef, eh? Didn't know that.
>>
>> And, of course, pastrami.
>
> And also....."corned" is another word for "brined in salt water."

ISTR that 'corned meat' also used to include saltpetre as an ingredient. Or
was saltpetre just one of the forms of 'salts' involved?

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Why is it common to brine pork and poultry, but not beef?

Mostly because pork and poultry have pretty much had the flavor bred out
of them.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> In article <50709242$1$26884$[email protected] >,
> "Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > >
> > > Why is it common to brine pork and poultry, but not beef?
> >
> > It is, see Mal-Wart "enhanced" beef...
>
> Barf. That's why I refuse to buy Hormel fresh meats. I'll be damned if
> I'll pay 30% of the cost of a pork tenderloin for what is tantamount to
> a salt water solution.

Yeah - I no longer buy my meats in any supermarket. I go to a local meat
market. Most anything I want I can get there.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 02:10:35 -0400, T <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> In article <50709242$1$26884$[email protected] >,
>> "Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Why is it common to brine pork and poultry, but not beef?
>> >
>> > It is, see Mal-Wart "enhanced" beef...
>>
>> Barf. That's why I refuse to buy Hormel fresh meats. I'll be damned if
>> I'll pay 30% of the cost of a pork tenderloin for what is tantamount to
>> a salt water solution.
>
>Yeah - I no longer buy my meats in any supermarket. I go to a local meat
>market. Most anything I want I can get there.

People who eat supermarket meat don't appreciate good food.

--
John

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> Why is it common to brine pork and poultry, but not beef?
> --
> Barb,
> http://www.barbschaller.com, as of August 20, 2012

Corned beef :-)

Dimitri

Dimitri wrote:
>
> "Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]..
> > Why is it common to brine pork and poultry, but not beef?
> > --
> > Barb,
> > http://www.barbschaller.com, as of August 20, 2012
>
> Corned beef :-)
>
> Dimitri

One other thing. Beef and turkey have strong flavors. Chicken (mainly) and
pork have more neutral flavors. IMO, chicken is so popular because of the
neutral flavor....you can do much more recipe variety with that meat.

G.

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:05:03 +1100, John John <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 02:10:35 -0400, T <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>[email protected] says...
>>>
>>> In article <50709242$1$26884$[email protected] >,
>>> "Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Why is it common to brine pork and poultry, but not beef?
>>> >
>>> > It is, see Mal-Wart "enhanced" beef...
>>>
>>> Barf. That's why I refuse to buy Hormel fresh meats. I'll be damned if
>>> I'll pay 30% of the cost of a pork tenderloin for what is tantamount to
>>> a salt water solution.
>>
>>Yeah - I no longer buy my meats in any supermarket. I go to a local meat
>>market. Most anything I want I can get there.
>
>People who eat supermarket meat don't appreciate good food.

It all comes from the same slaughter houses... where you live the
markets sell the lesser grades is all... and if I want to pay 2 1/2
times more I can buy from the local cattle ranches but it's not worth
the price, in fact store bought is better... folks who boast about
eating local organic beef are the same types who believe that the
emperor is wearing new clothes. I buy most meat from the small market
in town, they sell very good quality, the butchers will custom cut,
and prices are lower than elsewhere. The market in town sells the
best pork around. There are a few stand alone meat markets nearby but
I think they are just rip off artists. The cattle farmer who hays my
land over in the next county sells beef, I've sampled some for free
but it's not all that. He's tried to pay my rent in beef but I tell
him the tax assessor only takes cash. Most folks shop for meat by
emotion and presentation... they believe it's better from a meat
market and it looks more attractive in the meat case without the
wrapping, and under the special lighting that makes it look the
brighter red that they imagine how beef should look.

On Oct 9, 7:36*am, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:05:03 +1100, John John <J...@invalid.net>
> It all comes from the same slaughter houses... where you live the
> markets sell the lesser grades is all... and if I want to pay 2 1/2
> times more I can buy from the local cattle ranches but it's not worth
> the price, in fact store bought is better... folks who boast about
> eating local organic beef are the same types who believe that the
> emperor is wearing new clothes. *I buy most meat from the small market
> in town, they sell very good quality, the butchers will custom cut,
> and prices are lower than elsewhere. *The market in town sells the
> best pork around. *There are a few stand alone meat markets nearby but
> I think they are just rip off artists. *The cattle farmer who hays my
> land over in the next county sells beef, I've sampled some for free
> but it's not all that. *He's tried to pay my rent in beef but I tell
> him the tax assessor only takes cash. *Most folks shop for meat by
> emotion and presentation... they believe it's better from a meat
> market and it looks more attractive in the meat case without the
> wrapping, and under the special lighting that makes it look the
> brighter red that they imagine how beef should look.

Like all businesses their are good and bad butchers. The one I use is
amazing. His meat is outstanding and his prices are about the same as
the local supermarket, especially as his meat is trimmed with the
correct (but not to much) fat left on. I can also order almost
anything I need. (Try that at whole foods!) (By the way, much of his
meat comes from local farms and all, except the veal, is free range.
He tried free range veal once but it doesn't taste as good.)

I know I'm lucky to have access to such a good butcher, but in many
areas they can be found.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On Oct 9, 7:17*am, Gary <g.maj...@att.net> wrote:
>
> One other thing. *Beef and turkey have strong flavors. Chicken (mainly)and
> pork have more neutral flavors. *IMO, chicken is so popular because of the
> neutral flavor....you can do much more recipe variety with that meat.
>
> G.

That may be true in the US but not elsewhere. The animals have been
bred for quantity of meat, not quality. Try eating either in other
countries and the taste is so much better.

http://www.richardfisher.com

Amen to that Melba's Jammin'!!!!!!

On 10/7/2012 12:23 PM, George wrote:
> On 10/7/2012 12:48 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:

>> Injected meat is a whole different thing than brining. With
>> injection, you are actually adding liquid to the meat. With brining,
>> there is an exchange. IMO
>> Janet US
>>
> Exactly, the process walmart (and others who have followed) requires
> for their "fresh" meat is that it be injected to add additional
> liquid. That way they can make more money on by by selling water, and
> keep the "fresh" meat shelf stable for a month.

Bingo. I was part of a product evaluation group for Hormel injected
pork products way back in their development phase. I had a long
conversation with the guy leading the group about what the company's
goal was. He said they wanted to boost pork sales, but consumer
surveys showed that a lot of people reported pork was more challenging
than other meats to cook properly because it was so prone to drying
out and getting tough. Hormel was thus looking at ways to produce pork
that would be consistently tender even if it was overcooked or cooked
incorrectly. The fact that injecting the solution increased the meat
weight was a little bonus, but they mainly wanted to boost the
consumption of pork.

There's a fact sheet that explains what those ingredients do to the
pork they're injected into:

Functionality Of Non-Meat Ingredients Used In Enhanced Pork

http://www.extension.org/pages/27340...-enhanced-pork

Some excerpts:

....it is the ability of salt to increase waterholding capacity that
drives its use in enhanced pork products.
The addition of sodium lactate has been shown to improve overall
color, help to stabilize color during storage and to increase the
length of time that color is maintained during storage. The addition
of sodium lactate has been shown to increase meat juiciness...sodium
lactate addition has been shown to improve the pork flavor in these
meats and to reduce the development of off-flavors associated with
lipid oxidation. However, sodium lactate addition also has been
associated with higher salt tastes, increased throat-burning
mouth-feel, and higher levels of chemical aromatic flavor.
Potassium lactate has been shown to increase meat color, improve
juiciness and tenderness, enhance positive flavor attributes and
decrease negative flavor attributes during storage, decrease microbial
growth, and limit the growth of some major meat pathogens as
previously discussed with sodium lactate.
Sodium diacetate recently has been approved for use in meat products
as an antimicrobial agent.
The use of food grade organic acids, such as citric, malic, acetic,
lactic, benzoic, sorbic and propionic acids, have been used to limit
microbiological growth in food products.

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:25:26 -0500, Hell Toupee <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/7/2012 12:23 PM, George wrote:
>> On 10/7/2012 12:48 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
>>> Injected meat is a whole different thing than brining. With
>>> injection, you are actually adding liquid to the meat. With brining,
>>> there is an exchange. IMO
>>> Janet US
>>>
>> Exactly, the process walmart (and others who have followed) requires
>> for their "fresh" meat is that it be injected to add additional
>> liquid. That way they can make more money on by by selling water, and
>> keep the "fresh" meat shelf stable for a month.
>
>Bingo. I was part of a product evaluation group for Hormel injected
>pork products way back in their development phase. I had a long
>conversation with the guy leading the group about what the company's
>goal was. He said they wanted to boost pork sales, but consumer
>surveys showed that a lot of people reported pork was more challenging
>than other meats to cook properly because it was so prone to drying
>out and getting tough. Hormel was thus looking at ways to produce pork
>that would be consistently tender even if it was overcooked or cooked
>incorrectly. The fact that injecting the solution increased the meat
>weight was a little bonus, but they mainly wanted to boost the
>consumption of pork.

He lied and fool that you are believed him. Injecting saline causes
the natural moisture in the meat to exude the same as brining in
saline solution... actually injecting causes more natural juices to
exude and at a much greater rate, injecting shortens the meat curing
process substantially. The only reason they wanted to add salt was to
increase shelf life... pork has a shorter shelf life than beef, beef
can be aged, pork cannot. That's why there are so many cured pork
products (hams, sausage, etc.) but relatively few cured beef products.
It's very easy to properly cook pork, however too many like to use the
alibi about how pork isn't the same anymore... BS... they simply can't
cook.

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:31:37 PM UTC-4, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:25:26 -0500, Hell Toupee <[email protected]>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On 10/7/2012 12:23 PM, George wrote:
>
> >> On 10/7/2012 12:48 PM, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>> Injected meat is a whole different thing than brining. With
>
> >>> injection, you are actually adding liquid to the meat. With brining,
>
> >>> there is an exchange. IMO
>
> >>> Janet US
>
> >>>
>
> >> Exactly, the process walmart (and others who have followed) requires
>
> >> for their "fresh" meat is that it be injected to add additional
>
> >> liquid. That way they can make more money on by by selling water, and
>
> >> keep the "fresh" meat shelf stable for a month.
>
> >
>
> >Bingo. I was part of a product evaluation group for Hormel injected
>
> >pork products way back in their development phase. I had a long
>
> >conversation with the guy leading the group about what the company's
>
> >goal was. He said they wanted to boost pork sales, but consumer
>
> >surveys showed that a lot of people reported pork was more challenging
>
> >than other meats to cook properly because it was so prone to drying
>
> >out and getting tough. Hormel was thus looking at ways to produce pork
>
> >that would be consistently tender even if it was overcooked or cooked
>
> >incorrectly. The fact that injecting the solution increased the meat
>
> >weight was a little bonus, but they mainly wanted to boost the
>
> >consumption of pork.
>
>
>
> He lied and fool that you are believed him. Injecting saline causes
>
> the natural moisture in the meat to exude the same as brining in
>
> saline solution... actually injecting causes more natural juices to
>
> exude and at a much greater rate, injecting shortens the meat curing
>
> process substantially. The only reason they wanted to add salt was to
>
> increase shelf life... pork has a shorter shelf life than beef, beef
>
> can be aged, pork cannot. That's why there are so many cured pork
>
> products (hams, sausage, etc.) but relatively few cured beef products.
>
> It's very easy to properly cook pork, however too many like to use the
>
> alibi about how pork isn't the same anymore... BS... they simply can't
>
> cook.

You're on a streak again. How many more consecutive days can you post only patently false statements? You're a true imbecile.

Melba's Jammin' <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why is it common to brine pork and poultry, but not beef?

Corned beef?