Thread: Bread

In article <XXDLl.18527$[email protected]>,
"Dimitri" <[email protected]> wrote:

<snipped>

> finished and ready to cool
>
> http://i44.tinypic.com/v5wlyr.jpg
>
> Decent texture (crumb)
>
> http://i44.tinypic.com/de6xps.jpg
>
>
> I need to work on the crust texture as well as the color shaping and of
> course photography.
>
> The flavor was as good as I have tasted.
>
> Later this morning - French toast - I may microwave dry (make stale) for
> some bread pudding.
>
> Dimitri

I'm not eating bread at the moment, but when I do, sourdough is my #1
favorite.

That looks good enough to make me cheat. :-d
--
Peace! Om

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.

On Mon, 4 May 2009 08:43:51 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I never had had the time or the patience to go through the learning curve
>for bread baking. Now having said that I dearly love the taste of Sourdough
>bread.
>
>
>Recently, for the second time I went here
>
>http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/
>
>And picked up some of their sourdough starter N/C.
>
>
>Yesterday was my second attempt and I used a stiffer dough than the first
>time.
>
>This batch was 1/2 bread flour 1/2 AP flour.
>
>The ingredients were simple, starter, water, flour, salt,
>
>I started the sponge @ 11:00 AM and the loves came out about 6:30 PM
>
>Here is the bread after 3 minutes @450 ready for a spritz.
>
>http://i41.tinypic.com/9940b8.jpg
>
>After 15 Min @ 450 - reduce to 425 for 20 more
>
>http://i43.tinypic.com/33w1wqx.jpg
>
>finished and ready to cool
>
>http://i44.tinypic.com/v5wlyr.jpg
>
>Decent texture (crumb)
>
>http://i44.tinypic.com/de6xps.jpg
>
>
>I need to work on the crust texture as well as the color shaping and of
>course photography.
>
>The flavor was as good as I have tasted.
>
>Later this morning - French toast - I may microwave dry (make stale) for
>some bread pudding.
>
>Dimitri
>
>
Lovely. Keep up the great work.

How "sour" was it? Carl's starter is best known for producing a more
sour tasting based on lengthier proofing/technique rather than just as
a starter basis.

I use a sourdough starter, Carl's among them, do to almost all of my
bread baking, even enriched and sweet doughs, such as brioche or
sticky buns. For most, I am not seeking any "sour" taste, just using
the natural levain rather than commercial yeast.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..

<snip>

>>Dimitri
>>
>>
> Lovely. Keep up the great work.

Thanks - it's going to take some time -AFAICT bread/yeast dough is an
experience & feel type of product.
>
> How "sour" was it? Carl's starter is best known for producing a more
> sour tasting based on lengthier proofing/technique rather than just as
> a starter basis.

It's fairly sour as sour as a good SFSD like Boudine. The proofing of
starter was in the oven overnight ( ± 20 hours) The overall rise is 2.5 Hr +
1/2 Hr. + 1/2 Hr + 1 Hr.


> I use a sourdough starter, Carl's among them, do to almost all of my
> bread baking, even enriched and sweet doughs, such as brioche or
> sticky buns. For most, I am not seeking any "sour" taste, just using
> the natural levain rather than commercial yeast.

There was no added yeast just the starter.


> Boron

On Mon, 4 May 2009 09:37:32 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]. .
>
><snip>
>
>>>Dimitri
>>>
>>>
>> Lovely. Keep up the great work.
>
>Thanks - it's going to take some time -AFAICT bread/yeast dough is an
>experience & feel type of product.
>>
>> How "sour" was it? Carl's starter is best known for producing a more
>> sour tasting based on lengthier proofing/technique rather than just as
>> a starter basis.
>
>It's fairly sour as sour as a good SFSD like Boudine. The proofing of
>starter was in the oven overnight ( ± 20 hours) The overall rise is 2.5 Hr +
>1/2 Hr. + 1/2 Hr + 1 Hr.

That long initial starter proof probably helped.
>
>
>> I use a sourdough starter, Carl's among them, do to almost all of my
>> bread baking, even enriched and sweet doughs, such as brioche or
>> sticky buns. For most, I am not seeking any "sour" taste, just using
>> the natural levain rather than commercial yeast.
>
>There was no added yeast just the starter.
>
>
>> Boron
>

Sounds as if you are on the right track. The photos are really
welcome. Post more as you continue to bake.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Mon, 4 May 2009 09:37:32 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>

<snip>

> Sounds as if you are on the right track. The photos are really
> welcome. Post more as you continue to bake.
>
> Boron

Thanks I will do so.

Below is the "recipe' I used except for 1/2 7 1/2 on the types of flour.

Dimitri



San Francisco Sourdough BREAD, from Bread Alone by Daniel Leader & Judith
Blahnik:

First make up a sponge and let it sit at 74 - 80 degree draft free place for
24 hours:

Starter - 2/3 cup
Water (dechlorinated) - 1 cup
White flour - 1 1/2 cup

Final dough:

Water - 2 cups
White flour - 5 1/2 - 6 1/2 cups
Fine sea salt - 1 T



Mix final dough and knead it for 15 to 20 minutes. Let it ferment at 74 -
80 degrees in a draft free area for 2 1/2 hours in a large bowl, covered
with a damp towel or plastic wrap. Deflate the dough by pushing down in the
center and pulling up on the sides. Cover bowl with a clean damp towel or
plastic wrap and let sit in a warm (74-80) draft free place for 30 minutes.
Turn out on a floured area and knead briefly. Shape into a tight ball.
Cover with a clean damp towel or plastic wrap and put in a warm (74-80)
draft free place for 30 minutes. Shape. You may divide the dough into two
pieces and shape into two round logs or into round loaves (free form) or one
large freeform loaf. Proof the loaves in a warm (74-80) draft free place
till they rise 1 1/2 times the size - about 1 hour - on a floured towel.
Preheat oven for an hour before baking. Bake an a baking stone at 450 for
15 minutes, reduce heat to 425 for 20 minutes longer. Turn out and thump the
bottom to test for doneness (sounds hollow) and cool on a wire rack for 25
minutes before cutting. Spritzing the oven at the beginning and each 3
minutes for the first 10 minutes will make a hard crust. One can use two
conventional baking pans if desired.

"Dimitri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:XXDLl.18527$[email protected]..
>I never had had the time or the patience to go through the learning curve
>for bread baking. Now having said that I dearly love the taste of
>Sourdough bread.
>
>
> Recently, for the second time I went here
>
> http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/
>
> And picked up some of their sourdough starter N/C.
>
>
> Yesterday was my second attempt and I used a stiffer dough than the first
> time.
>
> This batch was 1/2 bread flour 1/2 AP flour.
>
> The ingredients were simple, starter, water, flour, salt,
>
> I started the sponge @ 11:00 AM and the loves came out about 6:30 PM
>
> Here is the bread after 3 minutes @450 ready for a spritz.
>
> http://i41.tinypic.com/9940b8.jpg
>
> After 15 Min @ 450 - reduce to 425 for 20 more
>
> http://i43.tinypic.com/33w1wqx.jpg
>
> finished and ready to cool
>
> http://i44.tinypic.com/v5wlyr.jpg
>
> Decent texture (crumb)
>
> http://i44.tinypic.com/de6xps.jpg
>
>
> I need to work on the crust texture as well as the color shaping and of
> course photography.
>
> The flavor was as good as I have tasted.
>
> Later this morning - French toast - I may microwave dry (make stale) for
> some bread pudding.
>
Exellent results. You should post those pix on rec.food.sourdough!

"graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l9GLl.10335$[email protected]..

<snip>

> Exellent results. You should post those pix on rec.food.sourdough!

Thanks I had no ides there was a sourdough NG.

Dimitri

"Dimitri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:lbGLl.9609$[email protected]..
>
> "graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:l9GLl.10335$[email protected]..
>
> <snip>
>
>> Exellent results. You should post those pix on rec.food.sourdough!
>
> Thanks I had no ides there was a sourdough NG.
>
> Dimitri
They tend to be hard on some (never mention yeast!!!!) but you've done
everything right: you've used Carl's instead of trying to make your own and
you have photographed your excellent results.
Graham

On Mon, 4 May 2009 10:20:55 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]. .
>> On Mon, 4 May 2009 09:37:32 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
>
><snip>
>
>> Sounds as if you are on the right track. The photos are really
>> welcome. Post more as you continue to bake.
>>
>> Boron
>
>Thanks I will do so.
>
>Below is the "recipe' I used except for 1/2 7 1/2 on the types of flour.
>
>Dimitri
>
>
>
>San Francisco Sourdough BREAD, from Bread Alone by Daniel Leader & Judith
>Blahnik:

I like that book. I like the adaptation of Rose Levy Berenbaum's rye
bread they have, too. It is quite good.
>
>First make up a sponge and let it sit at 74 - 80 degree draft free place for
>24 hours:
>
>Starter - 2/3 cup

What is the hydration of your starter?

snip rest of recipe.

You might also want to try this one, which makes an excellent bread
and adapted from Jeffrey Hammelmann's Vermont Sourdough. I have
printed it in its entirety from Wild Yeast. She is a fine baker.

Boron

http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07...ite-sourdough/


Wild Yeast

My New Favorite Sourdough

July 8 2007 at 01:29 am

Norwich Sourdough crumb

I love baking all kinds of bread, but a basic sourdough loaf is an
essential staple at our house. Good with everything from blue cheese
to blueberry jam, and quite possibly even better unadorned, we always
feel something is missing if there isn’t a loaf resting on the cutting
board, ready for a quick snack or a hearty sandwich.

I first tried this recipe, adapted from the Vermont Sourdough in
Jeffrey Hamelman’s Bread: A Baker’s Book of Techniques and Recipes,
about a month ago. I loved it then, and have made it several more
times since, to make sure the first time wasn’t just beginner’s luck.
Nope; this one is a real winner. It’s a plain, honest, not-too-sour
sourdough with a touch of pumpernickel for depth of flavor. With a
thin, crisp crust and soft but substantial crumb, this is now my go-to
bread for everyday good eating, anytime, with anything.

Norwich SourdoughThe original recipe calls for 125% hydration starter.
I adjusted it to work with mine at 100%, and made a few other tweaks
as well. I am calling it Norwich Sourdough, in honor of the home town
of Hamelman’s King Arthur Flour bakery. And this charming Vermont
town, as it happens, was my home, too, for five memorable years.

Norwich Sourdough
(adapted from Vermont Sourdough in Bread: A Baker’s Book of Techniques
and Recipes by Jeffrey Hamelman)

Yield: 2 kg (four or five small, or two large, loaves)

Time:

Mix/autolyse: 35 minutes
First fermentation: 2.5 hours
Divide, bench rest, and shape: 20 minutes
Proof: 2.5 hours (or 1.5 hours, then retard for 2 – 16 hours)
Bake: 35 minutes

Desired dough temperature: 76F

Ingredients:

900 g white flour (I used Heartland Mills unbleached malted
all-purpose)
120 g whole rye flour (I used KAF pumpernickel)
600 g water at about 74F
360 g ripe 100% hydration sourdough starter
23 g salt

Method:

1. In the bowl of a stand mixer, mix the flours, water, and starter
on low speed until just combined, about one minute.
2. Let the dough rest (autolyse) for 30 minutes.
3. Add the salt and continue mixing on low or medium speed until
the dough reaches a medium level of gluten development. This should
only take about 3 or 4 minutes.
4. Transfer the dough to an oiled container (preferably a low, wide
one so the dough can be folded without removing it from the
container).
5. Ferment at room temperature (72F – 76F) for 2.5 hours, with
folds at 50 and 100 minutes.
6. Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured counter. Divide it
into 400g – 500g pieces. I usually make four 400g loaves and
refrigerate the rest to use for pizza dough later. Preshape the dough
pieces into light balls.
7. Sprinkle the balls lightly with flour, cover loosely with
plastic, and let rest for 15 minutes.
8. Shape into batards and place seam-side-up in a floured couche or
linen-lined bannetons.

Batards in couche
9. Slip the couche or bannetons into a large plastic bag or cover
with plastic wrap and proof at room temperature for 2 – 2.5 hours.
Alternatively, the loaves can be proofed for about 1.5 hours at room
temperature, then refrigerated for 2 – 16 hours and baked directly out
of the refrigerator; this will yield a tangier bread with a lovely,
blistered crust.
10. Meanwhile, preheat the oven, with baking stone, to 475F. You
will also need steam during the initial phase of baking, so prepare
for this now.
11. Turn the proofed loaves onto a semolina-sprinkled peel or
parchment. Slash each one with two overlapping cuts that are almost
parallel to the long axis of the batard.

slashed-batard.jpg
12. Once the loaves are in the oven, turn the heat down to 450F. For
400g loaves, bake for 12 minutes with steam, and another 15 – 18
minutes without steam. I leave the oven door cracked open a bit for
the last 5 minutes of this time. The crust should be a deep brown.
Then turn off the oven and leave the loaves in for 5 minutes longer,
with the door ajar, to help them dry. Larger loaves will need to be
baked longer.
13. Cool on a wire rack. Don’t cut until the loaves are completely
cool, if you can manage it!

"Dimitri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:lbGLl.9609$[email protected]..
>
> "graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:l9GLl.10335$[email protected]..
>
> <snip>
>
>> Exellent results. You should post those pix on rec.food.sourdough!
>
> Thanks I had no ides there was a sourdough NG.
>
> Dimitri
Rec.food.sourdough is not for the faint of heart. Come on over to
alt.bread.recipes, we'd love to have a new breadie.
Janet

"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Mon, 4 May 2009 10:20:55 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected] ..
>>> On Mon, 4 May 2009 09:37:32 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> Sounds as if you are on the right track. The photos are really
>>> welcome. Post more as you continue to bake.
>>>
>>> Boron
>>
>>Thanks I will do so.
>>
>>Below is the "recipe' I used except for 1/2 7 1/2 on the types of flour.
>>
>>Dimitri
>>
>>
>>
>>San Francisco Sourdough BREAD, from Bread Alone by Daniel Leader & Judith
>>Blahnik:
>
> I like that book. I like the adaptation of Rose Levy Berenbaum's rye
> bread they have, too. It is quite good.
>>
>>First make up a sponge and let it sit at 74 - 80 degree draft free place
>>for
>>24 hours:
>>
>>Starter - 2/3 cup
>
> What is the hydration of your starter?


How do I tell - it was very loose.

Dimitri

On Mon, 4 May 2009 13:56:08 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]. .
>> On Mon, 4 May 2009 10:20:55 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected] ...
>>>> On Mon, 4 May 2009 09:37:32 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>> Sounds as if you are on the right track. The photos are really
>>>> welcome. Post more as you continue to bake.
>>>>
>>>> Boron
>>>
>>>Thanks I will do so.
>>>
>>>Below is the "recipe' I used except for 1/2 7 1/2 on the types of flour.
>>>
>>>Dimitri
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>San Francisco Sourdough BREAD, from Bread Alone by Daniel Leader & Judith
>>>Blahnik:
>>
>> I like that book. I like the adaptation of Rose Levy Berenbaum's rye
>> bread they have, too. It is quite good.
>>>
>>>First make up a sponge and let it sit at 74 - 80 degree draft free place
>>>for
>>>24 hours:
>>>
>>>Starter - 2/3 cup
>>
>> What is the hydration of your starter?
>
>
>How do I tell - it was very loose.
>
>Dimitri

Use the measure of your flour as 100% and calculate the ratio of water
to flour.

4 ounces flour, 4 ounces water is 100% hydration.

4 ounces flour, 6 ounces water is 150% hydration.

4 ounces flour, 2 ounces water is 50% hydration.

This allows you to be able to convert almost any yeast recipe to
sourdough base, as you can substitute the amount of flour and water
(or other liquids with a little bit of effort) in the recipe for what
you have in your starter.

Boron

I am just a lurker on this NG, but I have made my own starter and it has
been in my frig for years, have to feed it every week, and throw one cup
away if I don't make bread, but, my bread is delish. Just wanted you
folks to know that my starter is now 16 years old, and still doing it's
thing-----

"Carole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
>I am just a lurker on this NG, but I have made my own starter and it has
> been in my frig for years, have to feed it every week, and throw one cup
> away if I don't make bread, but, my bread is delish. Just wanted you
> folks to know that my starter is now 16 years old, and still doing it's
> thing-----
>


Please lose the HTML and post in plane text only no music or fancy stuff.

Why don't you try what I did.

If you like your starter make large batch - say 3 times normal.

The take 2 cups of the fermented starter and pour it into a baking pan lined
with plastic. Actually I used a paper plate lined with plastic wrap.

Place the pan/plate in the oven with the light on (About 80 degrees) and let
it dry - takes about 4 days.

Break it up and grind it with the food processor.

Now make a new batch of starter with 1 tablespoon of dry starter.

If it works you now have your culture forever and you can give it to
friends.

Here is what the instructions say:


Drying starter

Cover a dish or a pan with plastic wrap or waxed paper to prevent sticking.
After you have fed your starter and let it get active, pour some onto the
covered dish. The thicker the layer the longer it will take to dry. I use a
broiler pan and pour it 1/4 inch deep as I use a lot of it. This takes
nearly a week to harden.
Set aside at room temperature till it gets brittle - may be a few days.
Break into small pieces and grind in a blender, coffee grinder or food
processor. There you are! It will keep a long time. The yeast has sporulated
and will stay that way for years. At one time it was used to "chink" the
walls in log cabins and some of that stuff has been reactivated.

On Mon, 4 May 2009 14:38:27 -0600, "Janet Bostwick"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Dimitri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:lbGLl.9609$[email protected]. .
>>
>> "graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:l9GLl.10335$[email protected]..
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Exellent results. You should post those pix on rec.food.sourdough!
>>
>> Thanks I had no ides there was a sourdough NG.
>>
>> Dimitri
>Rec.food.sourdough is not for the faint of heart. Come on over to
>alt.bread.recipes, we'd love to have a new breadie.
>Janet
>

Janet is right, Dimitri. We'd love to have you over at alt.bread.
recipes.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Mon, 4 May 2009 13:56:08 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected] ..
>>> On Mon, 4 May 2009 10:20:55 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected] m...
>>>>> On Mon, 4 May 2009 09:37:32 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>> Sounds as if you are on the right track. The photos are really
>>>>> welcome. Post more as you continue to bake.
>>>>>
>>>>> Boron
>>>>
>>>>Thanks I will do so.
>>>>
>>>>Below is the "recipe' I used except for 1/2 7 1/2 on the types of flour.
>>>>
>>>>Dimitri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>San Francisco Sourdough BREAD, from Bread Alone by Daniel Leader &
>>>>Judith
>>>>Blahnik:
>>>
>>> I like that book. I like the adaptation of Rose Levy Berenbaum's rye
>>> bread they have, too. It is quite good.
>>>>
>>>>First make up a sponge and let it sit at 74 - 80 degree draft free place
>>>>for
>>>>24 hours:
>>>>
>>>>Starter - 2/3 cup
>>>
>>> What is the hydration of your starter?
>>
>>
>>How do I tell - it was very loose.
>>
>>Dimitri
>
> Use the measure of your flour as 100% and calculate the ratio of water
> to flour.
>
> 4 ounces flour, 4 ounces water is 100% hydration.
>
> 4 ounces flour, 6 ounces water is 150% hydration.
>
> 4 ounces flour, 2 ounces water is 50% hydration.
>
> This allows you to be able to convert almost any yeast recipe to
> sourdough base, as you can substitute the amount of flour and water
> (or other liquids with a little bit of effort) in the recipe for what
> you have in your starter.
>
> Boron

Does this make sence?

Starter
Water Flour
0.75 0.75
1.00 1.00

sponge

0.75 0.75 3/4 cup starter
1.00 1.50 1 cup water to 1.5 cups flour

dough
2 6.50 2 cups water to 6.5 cups flour

Total
3.75 8.75 Total

3.75/8.75 = .43

43% hydration ????

Keep in mind I live by the ocean and the humidity has been probably 95% very
foggy

Dimitri

"Boron Elgar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Mon, 4 May 2009 14:38:27 -0600, "Janet Bostwick"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dimitri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:lbGLl.9609$[email protected] ..
>>>
>>> "graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:l9GLl.10335$[email protected]..
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Exellent results. You should post those pix on rec.food.sourdough!
>>>
>>> Thanks I had no ides there was a sourdough NG.
>>>
>>> Dimitri
>>Rec.food.sourdough is not for the faint of heart. Come on over to
>>alt.bread.recipes, we'd love to have a new breadie.
>>Janet
>>
>
> Janet is right, Dimitri. We'd love to have you over at alt.bread.
> recipes.
>
> Boron

Subscribed - should I re-post?

Dimitri

On Mon, 4 May 2009 15:25:59 -0700, "Dimitri" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Please lose the HTML and post in plane text only no music or fancy stuff.

Isn't it about time to push ourselves into the 21st century...?

The only plane text I have ever heard was....

"please put your traytables in their upright and locked position"?

"Janet Bostwick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] m...
>
> "Dimitri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:lbGLl.9609$[email protected]..
>>
>> "graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:l9GLl.10335$[email protected]..
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Exellent results. You should post those pix on rec.food.sourdough!
>>
>> Thanks I had no ides there was a sourdough NG.
>>
>> Dimitri
> Rec.food.sourdough is not for the faint of heart. Come on over to
> alt.bread.recipes, we'd love to have a new breadie.
> Janet
Ooops! I should have posted that too, Janet!
Graham