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Thread: Boiling water question

  1. #1
    Kalmia Guest

    Default Boiling water question

    I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?

  2. #2
    Steve Pope Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    Kalmia <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    >water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    >this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?


    It can be true. It is related to convection effects around the
    container of water. Food science writers (Magee, Steingarten)
    have addressed these kind of claims and they are not entirely
    fictional.

    Steve

  3. #3
    Polly Esther Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question


    "Steve Pope" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:iu0mqe$5sg$[email protected]..
    > Kalmia <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    >>water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    >>this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?

    >
    > It can be true. It is related to convection effects around the
    > container of water. Food science writers (Magee, Steingarten)
    > have addressed these kind of claims and they are not entirely
    > fictional.
    >
    > Steve


    Just in case you were thinking of using water from your hot water tank for
    cooking because it 'may' be faster, I'm not so sure that's a good idea.
    Polly


  4. #4
    notbob Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    On 2011-06-23, Kalmia <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    > water.


    I've heard there such things as trolls. Do you have **** fer brains
    or are you jes low grade troll?

    nb

  5. #5
    Chemiker Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:15:00 -0500, "Polly Esther"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Steve Pope" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:iu0mqe$5sg$[email protected]..
    >> Kalmia <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    >>>water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    >>>this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?

    >>
    >> It can be true. It is related to convection effects around the
    >> container of water. Food science writers (Magee, Steingarten)
    >> have addressed these kind of claims and they are not entirely
    >> fictional.
    >>
    >> Steve

    >
    >Just in case you were thinking of using water from your hot water tank for
    >cooking because it 'may' be faster, I'm not so sure that's a good idea.
    >Polly


    I think the original claim was that hot water froze faster than cold
    water. The ostensible reason was that cold water contained dissolved
    gases that had to undergo phase-changes, which delayed freezing. OTOH,
    hot water was already de-gassed, and chilled faster, not being delayed
    by the phase change situation. Practical value to the homemaker? Nil.

    Alex

  6. #6
    dsi1 Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    On 6/23/2011 3:26 PM, Chemiker wrote:
    > On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:15:00 -0500, "Polly Esther"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "Steve Pope"<[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:iu0mqe$5sg$[email protected]..
    >>> Kalmia<[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    >>>> water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    >>>> this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?
    >>>
    >>> It can be true. It is related to convection effects around the
    >>> container of water. Food science writers (Magee, Steingarten)
    >>> have addressed these kind of claims and they are not entirely
    >>> fictional.
    >>>
    >>> Steve

    >>
    >> Just in case you were thinking of using water from your hot water tank for
    >> cooking because it 'may' be faster, I'm not so sure that's a good idea.
    >> Polly

    >
    > I think the original claim was that hot water froze faster than cold
    > water. The ostensible reason was that cold water contained dissolved
    > gases that had to undergo phase-changes, which delayed freezing. OTOH,
    > hot water was already de-gassed, and chilled faster, not being delayed
    > by the phase change situation. Practical value to the homemaker? Nil.
    >
    > Alex


    Water that has been boiled a couple of times may or may not freeze
    faster than water that has not been boiled provided that they start off
    at the same temperature. Boiling water and cooling it is supposed to
    provide clear icecubes when frozen because the dissolved gases have been
    removed. My guess is that setting water in a container under a strong
    vacuum might be the better way to go if you want to de-gas water.

    Whenever I have to boil water, I always start with the hottest tap water
    I have. When filling ice cube trays, I'll always use cold tap water. To
    do otherwise would be a waste of energy.

  7. #7
    Landon Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:14:10 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    >water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    >this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?


    If you think about the process, it can't be true.

    When heating cold water, on it's way to being hot water, it passes
    through being warm water.

    Cold to warm to hot.

    Warm to hot would exclude the time it takes to go from cold to warm,
    thus making it faster then starting with cold.

    The one where warm water freezes faster than cold water is the same
    process in reverse.

    Warm water has to pass through cold on its way to freezing.

    Those old myths are kinda funny.


  8. #8
    Dave Smith Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    On 23/06/2011 11:08 PM, Mark Thorson wrote:
    > dsi1 wrote:
    >>
    >> Whenever I have to boil water, I always start with the hottest tap water
    >> I have. When filling ice cube trays, I'll always use cold tap water. To
    >> do otherwise would be a waste of energy.

    >
    > I remember reading something included in my
    > gas/electricity bill that said the opposite,
    > you save energy by boiling cold water.


    That is probably because you have to run the hot water for a while to
    purge the line of cold water before you get to the hot stuff, which is a
    waste of water that has been previously heated, so a considerable waste
    of energy. The heater on the water tank may not cycle on every time you
    do that, but will do it frequently,and that is going to cause you to
    heat up a lot more water in the tank than you are likely to be heating
    up in your pot.

    Remember that it takes a certain amount of heat to raise the temperature
    of a given volume of water. The more water you are heating and the
    greater the difference in temperature, the more heat it is going to
    take. It is going to take less time and energy to bring hot water to a
    boil than cold, but you are guaranteed to be wasting a lot more energy.

  9. #9
    Polly Esther Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question


    "Landon" <> wrote

    > On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:14:10 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    >>water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    >>this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?

    >
    > If you think about the process, it can't be true.
    >
    > When heating cold water, on it's way to being hot water, it passes
    > through being warm water.
    >
    > Cold to warm to hot.
    >
    > Warm to hot would exclude the time it takes to go from cold to warm,
    > thus making it faster then starting with cold.
    >
    > The one where warm water freezes faster than cold water is the same
    > process in reverse.
    >
    > Warm water has to pass through cold on its way to freezing.
    >
    > Those old myths are kinda funny.


    But this is our own little cooking show. Why are we boiling water? Are we
    going to use it to sterillize the garden shovel or are we using it for
    cooking? If cooking, cold water would likely be preferable to something
    that's been sitting around in a hot water tank. Ever drain your hot water
    tank? Polly
    >



  10. #10
    Mark Thorson Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    dsi1 wrote:
    >
    > Whenever I have to boil water, I always start with the hottest tap water
    > I have. When filling ice cube trays, I'll always use cold tap water. To
    > do otherwise would be a waste of energy.


    I remember reading something included in my
    gas/electricity bill that said the opposite,
    you save energy by boiling cold water.

  11. #11
    Steve Freides Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    Polly Esther wrote:
    > "Landon" <> wrote
    >
    >> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:14:10 -0700 (PDT), Kalmia
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    >>> water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to
    >>> test this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?

    >>
    >> If you think about the process, it can't be true.
    >>
    >> When heating cold water, on it's way to being hot water, it passes
    >> through being warm water.
    >>
    >> Cold to warm to hot.
    >>
    >> Warm to hot would exclude the time it takes to go from cold to warm,
    >> thus making it faster then starting with cold.
    >>
    >> The one where warm water freezes faster than cold water is the same
    >> process in reverse.
    >>
    >> Warm water has to pass through cold on its way to freezing.
    >>
    >> Those old myths are kinda funny.

    >
    > But this is our own little cooking show. Why are we boiling water?
    > Are we going to use it to sterillize the garden shovel or are we
    > using it for cooking? If cooking, cold water would likely be
    > preferable to something that's been sitting around in a hot water
    > tank.


    Yes, I've thought of that. I don't use hot water to make tea, but I
    don't think it makes all that much difference if I'm trying to make the
    kids spaghetti.

    > Ever drain your hot water tank? Polly


    If you've run out of hot water while taking a shower, wouldn't that mean
    you'd drained the tank?

    -S-



  12. #12
    Paul M. Cook Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question


    "Kalmia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    >I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    > water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    > this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?


    No matter how you try to change the laws of physics youi cannot. Water
    boils only afetr a speciofic amount of energy has been applied to it. This
    energy is measured in calories. 1 calorie will raise 1 gram of water 1
    degree Celsius. Also, it takes 540 calories to turn 1 gram of water (at 100
    degrees C) to steam. The closer your are to 100C to start with the less
    energy you will need to boil the water.

    Paul




  13. #13
    Ed Pawlowski Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question


    "Polly Esther" <[email protected]> wrote

    >
    > But this is our own little cooking show. Why are we boiling water? Are
    > we going to use it to sterillize the garden shovel or are we using it for
    > cooking? If cooking, cold water would likely be preferable to something
    > that's been sitting around in a hot water tank. Ever drain your hot water
    > tank? Polly
    >>

    >


    Not to mention that you paid to heat it anyway so there is no savings on the
    range. Some hot water tanks can give an off taste from mineral sediment, as
    Polly points out.


  14. #14
    HumBug! Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:15:00 -0500, "Polly Esther" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Steve Pope" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:iu0mqe$5sg$[email protected]..
    >> Kalmia <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    >>>water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    >>>this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?

    >>
    >> It can be true. It is related to convection effects around the
    >> container of water. Food science writers (Magee, Steingarten)
    >> have addressed these kind of claims and they are not entirely
    >> fictional.
    >>
    >> Steve

    >
    >Just in case you were thinking of using water from your hot water tank for
    >cooking because it 'may' be faster, I'm not so sure that's a good idea.


    AND there is the fact that SOME PEOPLE will believe ANYTHING!

    You have a certain amount of energy to heat the water (stove or microwave).

    The colder the water is, the LONGER it will take to heat,
    UNLESS you use MORE energy to do the heating.

    THAQT is simple physics!







  15. #15
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    Kalmia wrote:
    > I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    > water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to test
    > this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?


    I don't think so. If that were so, why do they make Insinkerators?



  16. #16
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    Polly Esther wrote:
    > "Steve Pope" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:iu0mqe$5sg$[email protected]..
    >> Kalmia <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have heard that cold water will come to a boil quicker than warm
    >>> water. Not having identical pots and burners, I am at a lost to
    >>> test this. Any truth to this, and if so, why?

    >>
    >> It can be true. It is related to convection effects around the
    >> container of water. Food science writers (Magee, Steingarten)
    >> have addressed these kind of claims and they are not entirely
    >> fictional.
    >>
    >> Steve

    >
    > Just in case you were thinking of using water from your hot water
    > tank for cooking because it 'may' be faster, I'm not so sure that's a
    > good idea. Polly


    I know they used to say this because lead was more likely to leach from the
    pipes. But if you have a house with PVC pipes like I do, this probably
    isn't true.

    When I want to clean my microwave, I start with hot water and it comes to a
    boil super fast.



  17. #17
    dsi1 Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    On Jun 23, 5:08*pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
    > dsi1 wrote:
    >
    > > Whenever I have to boil water, I always start with the hottest tap water
    > > I have. When filling ice cube trays, I'll always use cold tap water. To
    > > do otherwise would be a waste of energy.

    >
    > I remember reading something included in my
    > gas/electricity bill that said the opposite,
    > you save energy by boiling cold water.


    You might be right about this. OTOH, if I can save a few minutes to
    boil some water, I guess that it might be worth a few tiny watts.
    Anything to get me out of the kitchen fast! (-:

  18. #18
    ItsJoanNotJoann Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    On Jun 23, 10:16*pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:
    > Polly Esther wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Ever drain your hot water tank? Polly

    >
    > If you've run out of hot water while taking a shower, wouldn't that mean
    > you'd drained the tank?
    >
    > -S-
    >
    >

    No, it's not.

  19. #19
    Steve Pope Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    In article <[email protected]>,
    ItsJoanNotJoann <[email protected]> wrote:
    >On Jun 23, 10:16*pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:
    >> Polly Esther wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> > Ever drain your hot water tank? Polly

    >>
    >> If you've run out of hot water while taking a shower, wouldn't that mean
    >> you'd drained the tank?
    >>
    >> -S-
    >>
    >>

    >No, it's not.


    In Britain the hot water tanks empty out as you use hot water.
    At least, that was true in previous decades, maybe they have
    changed.


    S.

  20. #20
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Boiling water question

    Steve Pope wrote:
    > In article
    > <[email protected]>,
    > ItsJoanNotJoann <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On Jun 23, 10:16 pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:
    >>> Polly Esther wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Ever drain your hot water tank? Polly
    >>>
    >>> If you've run out of hot water while taking a shower, wouldn't that
    >>> mean you'd drained the tank?
    >>>
    >>> -S-
    >>>
    >>>

    >> No, it's not.

    >
    > In Britain the hot water tanks empty out as you use hot water.
    > At least, that was true in previous decades, maybe they have
    > changed.


    I don't think that's how they work here, but I could be wrong.



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