Thread: Basmati rice -- slow cook?

"mkr5000" wrote

>I want to make some Goat Biryani today and I always see Indian recipes
> where they add some precooked rice (50%?) to the pot and let it cook
> along with 'everything else"....which would be nice as that way the
> rice really absorbs the flavors.

> really like to be able to use my crock pot (sorry -- I love it) and
> add rice, but I've never had too much luck getting it right....either
> under or over cooked if I remember right.

> I always wash it well and soak my rice for an hour.
> On a low crock pot low setting, when do you think I should add rice to
> my "stew"? Precook first?

Basmati brown or white? Makes a difference (and yes, I crockpot all the
time).

Part of your problem here is the pre-soak. Don't in this case. Also brown
will give a better effect. White will turn to mush more easily. Calrose
whites will definately turn to mush (grin).

I would cook the base recipe without the rice, then add the rice (raw as is)
in the last hour. This will give a distinct 'grain' still with a brown and
most 'hard-long, non-sticky' whites will tolerate it. Be sure you have
enough liquid in the recipe. 2 cups liquid per 1.25 cups rice for this is a
good starting point (adjust liquid upwards with a little stock as you near
finishing).

I make commonly 'Japanese Rice Porridge' which is a fancy version of what
you may call Congee or Juk (but has more 'stuff' in it). Sometimes I use
the rice maker, and other times the crockpot. In this case the grains are
*supposed* to mostly dissolve so it's workable to add the rice right at the
start. 6 cups stock (I use dashi but chicken will do) to 1 cup rice and 3
cups 'various goodies'.

Ok -- that's what I was thinking -- just add in the last hour.

No pre-soaking.

As long as you have enough liquid in there, you should be ok? What do
you normally use,
one cup or so?

I mean !/2 cup !

This is a larger size crock pot.

"mkr5000" wrote

> Ok -- that's what I was thinking -- just add in the last hour.
>
> No pre-soaking.
>
> As long as you have enough liquid in there, you should be ok? What do
> you normally use,
> one cup or so?

Grin, sorry, was out at BJ's. It was time for the quarterly 'big trip'.

The amount of liquid in the crockpot needs to be about the same as what you
would use when cooking the rice 'alone'. My normal rice is pretty much 1
cup dry rice to 2 cups water (perhaps heap the rice cup a bit). The rice
will absorb that liquid and it's flavors.

Far east Asia (Japan, etc) doenst expect 'distinct grains' (called
separatist as they all act like they hate each other and wanna be alone).
India cooking however tends to be a bit more 'individual grainlet'. It
kinda depends on what you are looking for in final effect.

Rice fully permeated by the cooking liquid will not be 'fluffy
individualist' separatist grains if that helps! If you want a bit of both,
then rice 1 hour before ready,

[email protected] wrote:
>I want to make some Goat Biryani today and I always see Indian recipes
>where they add some precooked rice (50%?) to the pot and let it cook
>along with 'everything else"....which would be nice as that way the
>rice really absorbs the flavors.

There is of course a Hispanic tradition of cooking rice with meat or beans and
seasonings. But, having tried this with biriani, I find that the problem is
that biriani contains too many elements that need radically different cooking
times. For one, the meat will usually need more cooking time than the rice
itself, not to mention all the garnishes: fried egg, fried onion and roasted
nuts. If there are peas, those will cook in a much shorter time than almost
anything else.

>Just to be on the safe side, I've always cooked rice separately and
>then mixed it in toward the end of whatever I was making. (not as
>tasty, but at least the rice is cooked right).

Biriani is supposed to spend some time with the half cooked rice hanging out
with everything else in a layered casserole.

>I know pressure cookers are used a lot in Indian cooking but I'd
>really like to be able to use my crock pot (sorry -- I love it) and
>add rice, but I've never had too much luck getting it right....either
>under or over cooked if I remember right.

I've never tried that.

>I always wash it well and soak my rice for an hour.

That might not make a difference.

>On a low crock pot low setting, when do you think I should add rice to
>my "stew"?
>Precook first?

If your biriani is coming out like a stew, there's way too much liquid. Biriani
is supposed to be bone dry, even drier than paella. I've eaten different kinds
of birianis all my life, in and out of India. Never have they been even
remotely stewy.

Orlando

cshenk1@cox.[email protected] wrote:
>I make commonly 'Japanese Rice Porridge' which is a fancy version of what
>you may call Congee or Juk (but has more 'stuff' in it). Sometimes I use
>the rice maker, and other times the crockpot. In this case the grains are
>*supposed* to mostly dissolve so it's workable to add the rice right at the
>start. 6 cups stock (I use dashi but chicken will do) to 1 cup rice and 3
>cups 'various goodies'.

Can you use brown rice for that? I'm trying to switch over from white in as
many dishes as possible.

Orlando

"Orlando Enrique Fiol" wrote
> [email protected] wrote:

>>I make commonly 'Japanese Rice Porridge' which is a fancy version of what
>>you may call Congee or Juk (but has more 'stuff' in it). Sometimes I use
>>the rice maker, and other times the crockpot. In this case the grains are
>>*supposed* to mostly dissolve so it's workable to add the rice right at
>>the
>>start. 6 cups stock (I use dashi but chicken will do) to 1 cup rice and 3
>>cups 'various goodies'.
>
> Can you use brown rice for that? I'm trying to switch over from white in
> as
> many dishes as possible.

Yes but the texture will be radically diffeent. This is a dish that is
supposed to be like a soupy 'oatmeal' consistancy and that would make for a
more defined grain. Not a bad choice if you like that!

The traditonal dashi stock is based on fish and seaweed but it's acceptable
made with chicken stock. The 'extra stuff' is about 50% chopped veggies
(cabbage, spinach, mushrooms, green onion tops) and the rest is normally
seafood based (octopus, shrimp, mussels, cooked fish bits) but can be subbed
with chicken if seafood isnt your style. The main difference in the
Japanese sort is you need at least 15 ingredients to make it 'right'. These
are small little bits of leftovers. In fact, sometimes the rice is also
leftover rice ;-)

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 07:08:39 -0700 (PDT), mkr5000 <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I want to make some Goat Biryani today and I always see Indian recipes
>where they add some precooked rice (50%?) to the pot and let it cook
>along with 'everything else"....which would be nice as that way the
>rice really absorbs the flavors.

Biryanis are layered dishes. Half cooking it gets the rice close to
cooked volume and allows for easy layering. It also allows for the rice
to absorb the excess moisture in the other ingredients in addition to
the flavors.

>Just to be on the safe side, I've always cooked rice separately and
>then mixed it in toward the end of whatever I was making. (not as
>tasty, but at least the rice is cooked right).

The other alternative is to put the uncooked rice in the mixture and
cook it completely with 'everything else'. This is more along the lines
of a pullao.

At this point it should be noted that there is NO universal agreement on
what differentiates a biryani and a pullao.

>I know pressure cookers are used a lot in Indian cooking but I'd
>really like to be able to use my crock pot (sorry -- I love it) and
>add rice, but I've never had too much luck getting it right....either
>under or over cooked if I remember right.

There is a variation on biryani using a cooking technique called dum
pukht, where the lid is sealed with dough. You might try looking at
those recipes (dum pukht) as a basis for crock pot cooking.

>I always wash it well and soak my rice for an hour.

1/2 hour of soaking for basmati should be enough. The important part is
to only half cook the rice before combining the ingredients. This
allows for the rice to still have structure when being manipulated.

>
>On a low crock pot low setting, when do you think I should add rice to
>my "stew"?
>Precook first?

Layer, don't mix in, the drained, half cooked rice on top of the 'other
ingredients' about 15 - 20 minutes before you want the dish to be
'done'. Make sure the lid tightly seals the crock pot - put a layer
aluminum foil on top of the pot and then place the lid on top if
necessary to get a tight seal.



>Anyone who does this on a regular basis?
>
>Thanks.

[email protected] wrote:
>Biryanis are layered dishes. Half cooking it gets the rice close to
>cooked volume and allows for easy layering. It also allows for the rice
>to absorb the excess moisture in the other ingredients in addition to
>the flavors.

Cooked rice absorbs less moisture, though.

>The other alternative is to put the uncooked rice in the mixture and
>cook it completely with 'everything else'. This is more along the lines
>of a pullao.

Except that pullaos usually have fewer ingredients than biriani and their
masalas are much less complex.

>At this point it should be noted that there is NO universal agreement on
>what differentiates a biryani and a pullao.

You clearly know your stuff, but I think most Indians are clear on the
difference. A pullao, as you point out, has the other ingredients cooked with
the rice in the same pot, usually contains a simpler masala and fewer
ingredients than a biriani.

>There is a variation on biryani using a cooking technique called dum
>pukht, where the lid is sealed with dough. You might try looking at
>those recipes (dum pukht) as a basis for crock pot cooking.

What can you tell me about how the dough is made and how hot it's expected to
get before cracking?

Thanks,
Orlando

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:42:58 -0400, Orlando Enrique Fiol
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>Biryanis are layered dishes. Half cooking it gets the rice close to
>>cooked volume and allows for easy layering. It also allows for the rice
>>to absorb the excess moisture in the other ingredients in addition to
>>the flavors.
>
>Cooked rice absorbs less moisture, though.

It is only half cooked, it will still absorb 15 - 25% of the the
original amount of water used to cook it.
>
>>The other alternative is to put the uncooked rice in the mixture and
>>cook it completely with 'everything else'. This is more along the lines
>>of a pullao.
>
>Except that pullaos usually have fewer ingredients than biriani and their
>masalas are much less complex.

No, No, No, don't go there. This is a rat hole. I don't think I have
ever met 2 Indians who have agreed on exactly what differentiates
pullaos from biryanis, other than they are different, and I have been
married to one for almost 30 years.

>
>>At this point it should be noted that there is NO universal agreement on
>>what differentiates a biryani and a pullao.
>
>You clearly know your stuff, but I think most Indians are clear on the
>difference. A pullao, as you point out, has the other ingredients cooked with
>the rice in the same pot, usually contains a simpler masala and fewer
>ingredients than a biriani.

See above. Note, too, that every Indian I know is positive that their
explanation is the right one and can come up with counter examples to
show the other person's isn't.

My way of differntiating is that, if I don't know the name, I will
generally think of a dish as a biryani if it is layered and as a pullao
if it is cooked as a mixture. If the cook calls it one or the other,
that over rides any identification methodology.


>>There is a variation on biryani using a cooking technique called dum
>>pukht, where the lid is sealed with dough. You might try looking at
>>those recipes (dum pukht) as a basis for crock pot cooking.
>
>What can you tell me about how the dough is made and how hot it's expected to
>get before cracking?

Don't worry about the dough. It is only a pot sealing technique used on
Indian pots. In India they would use atta (whole wheat) flour and water
in about a 3 to 1 ratio. The pot would be a handi - a spherical clay
pot with a saucer lid.

Using a flat sheet of aluminum foil between the pot and the lid and
molded over the pot edge after the lid had been seated should be
sufficient and less messy.

It is a slow cooking method, think crock pot or dutch oven.


>
>Thanks,
>Orlando

[email protected] wrote:
>No, No, No, don't go there. This is a rat hole. I don't think I have
>ever met 2 Indians who have agreed on exactly what differentiates
>pullaos from biryanis, other than they are different, and I have been
>married to one for almost 30 years.

You've got me beat there. I've only studied tabla since childhood and dhrupad
singing in Pune for ten months. I'll defer to your wife.

>Note, too, that every Indian I know is positive that their
>explanation is the right one and can come up with counter examples to
>show the other person's isn't.

I think I'd like hearing more of that polemic.

>My way of differntiating is that, if I don't know the name, I will
>generally think of a dish as a biryani if it is layered and as a pullao
>if it is cooked as a mixture.

I would agree, although the masala and amount of ingredients remain other
possible criteria.

>If the cook calls it one or the other,
>that over rides any identification methodology.

If you say so.

>
>Don't worry about the dough. It is only a pot sealing technique used on
>Indian pots. In India they would use atta (whole wheat) flour and water
>in about a 3 to 1 ratio.

With no oil, salt or ghee?

>The pot would be a handi - a spherical clay
>pot with a saucer lid.

I got that.

>Using a flat sheet of aluminum foil between the pot and the lid and
>molded over the pot edge after the lid had been seated should be
>sufficient and less messy.

But perhaps less flavorful, since I'm sure that ata would contribute a nutty
flavor.

Orlando

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 01:16:06 -0400, Orlando Enrique Fiol
<[email protected]> wrote:

> >Don't worry about the dough. It is only a pot sealing technique used on
> >Indian pots. In India they would use atta (whole wheat) flour and water
> >in about a 3 to 1 ratio.
>
> With no oil, salt or ghee?

It's just a paste to seal the lid, no intent to make it edible. The
same technique can occasionally be found in European cooking.

Matthew

--
Mail to this account goes to the bit bucket.
In the unlikely event you want to mail me replace usenet with my name

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 01:16:06 -0400, Orlando Enrique Fiol
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>No, No, No, don't go there. This is a rat hole. I don't think I have
>>ever met 2 Indians who have agreed on exactly what differentiates
>>pullaos from biryanis, other than they are different, and I have been
>>married to one for almost 30 years.
>
>You've got me beat there. I've only studied tabla since childhood and dhrupad
>singing in Pune for ten months. I'll defer to your wife.
>
>>Note, too, that every Indian I know is positive that their
>>explanation is the right one and can come up with counter examples to
>>show the other person's isn't.
>
>I think I'd like hearing more of that polemic.

My wife is from Bombay. It has a much more diverse population than
Pune. In spite of Pune's size, I tend to think of it in terms of being
a rural town.

The understanding of what is a biryani and what is a pullao seems to be
regional. Thus, a Parsee, or a Sindhi, or a Punjabi, or a Marwadi, or a
Mangalorean, or a Marathi, or a Kannadan, or a Bengali, or a Gujarti
will give a different criteria for differentiating the two. Sometimes
it is the preparation, or the ingredients, or its heritage, or ....

It is not that anyone I have talked to has really thought about it. hey
just know or don't care. I think only outsiders are the ones trying to
make sense out of it.

>
>>My way of differntiating is that, if I don't know the name, I will
>>generally think of a dish as a biryani if it is layered and as a pullao
>>if it is cooked as a mixture.
>
>I would agree, although the masala and amount of ingredients remain other
>possible criteria.

Could be anything. However, my favorite masoor biryani is not heavily
spiced. It is layered. (see, always counter examples ).



>>If the cook calls it one or the other,
>>that over rides any identification methodology.
>
>If you say so.
>
>>
>>Don't worry about the dough. It is only a pot sealing technique used on
>>Indian pots. In India they would use atta (whole wheat) flour and water
>>in about a 3 to 1 ratio.
>
>With no oil, salt or ghee?
>
>>The pot would be a handi - a spherical clay
>>pot with a saucer lid.
>
>I got that.
>
>>Using a flat sheet of aluminum foil between the pot and the lid and
>>molded over the pot edge after the lid had been seated should be
>>sufficient and less messy.
>
>But perhaps less flavorful, since I'm sure that ata would contribute a nutty
>flavor.
>
>Orlando

[email protected] wrote:
>My wife is from Bombay. It has a much more diverse population than
>Pune. In spite of Pune's size, I tend to think of it in terms of being
>a rural town.

Or at least a backwater. I always felt like Pune was Mumbai's less accomplished
younger sibling.

>The understanding of what is a biryani and what is a pullao seems to be
>regional. Thus, a Parsee, or a Sindhi, or a Punjabi, or a Marwadi, or a
>Mangalorean, or a Marathi, or a Kannadan, or a Bengali, or a Gujarti
>will give a different criteria for differentiating the two.

Sounds like a new doctoral thesis in the making.

>Sometimes it is the preparation, or the ingredients, or its heritage, or ....
>It is not that anyone I have talked to has really thought about it. hey
>just know or don't care. I think only outsiders are the ones trying to
>make sense out of it.

Damn! Harsh! I guess that makes me as outsider as they come.

>Could be anything. However, my favorite masoor biryani is not heavily
>spiced. It is layered. (see, always counter examples ).

Tell me more about that. I'm most enamored of Hyderabadi birianis, which, as
you know, are quite heavily spiced.

Orlando

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:26:37 -0400, Orlando Enrique Fiol
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>Could be anything. However, my favorite masoor biryani is not heavily
>>spiced. It is layered. (see, always counter examples ).
>
>Tell me more about that. I'm most enamored of Hyderabadi birianis, which, as
>you know, are quite heavily spiced.

3/4 cup whole lentil (masoor)
2 cup basmati rice
3 onions, sliced
1 onion, chopped
2 tomatoes, chopped
1/4 tsp saffron
1 tsp hot milk.
5 tbs ghee or butter
1/2 bunch of cilantro, destemmed and very coarsely chopped.
salt to taste.

Masala
4 cloves garlic
7 dry red chilies (I usually use less)
3 tsp coriander seed
1 1/2 tsp cumin seed
4 tsp poppy seed (khus-khus)
1" ginger

Grind masala ingredients into paste. I use a bullet blender as a wet
ingredient spice/coffee grinder.

Soak the lentils in water overnight.

Soak saffron in hot milk. set aside.

Deep fry sliced onions in ghee or peanut oil until deep golden to medium
brown.

Soak the rice for 1/2 hour in enough water to cover plus the distance
from finger tip to first knuckle. Bring to boil, cover, reduce to
simmer and cook for 15 minutes.

Add saffron and fried, sliced onions to rice and mix well but gently.

Heat 3 tbs of ghee in dutch oven and sweat the chopped onion until
translucent. Add the masala paste and fry for 2 minutes. Add the
tomatoes and fry for another 2 minutes. Add the soaked lentils, salt,
and 3/4 cup water.

Cook lentils until tender over low heat. Set aside.

grease large baking dish or soufle dish with 2 tbs of ghee. Spread 1/3
of rice on bottom. spread 1/2 of lentils on top, 1/3 of rice on top of
that, the rest of the lentils, and finally the rest of the rice.

Cover and bake in hot oven (400 deg) for 20 minutes. garnish with
cilantro and serve.

[email protected] wrote:
>3/4 cup whole lentil (masoor)
>2 cup basmati rice
>3 onions, sliced
>1 onion, chopped
>2 tomatoes, chopped
>1/4 tsp saffron
>1 tsp hot milk.
>5 tbs ghee or butter
>1/2 bunch of cilantro, destemmed and very coarsely chopped.
>salt to taste.
>Masala
>4 cloves garlic
>7 dry red chilies (I usually use less)
>3 tsp coriander seed
>1 1/2 tsp cumin seed
>4 tsp poppy seed (khus-khus)
>1" ginger
Weird! It looks like a cross between biriani and kichadi. I see what you mean
now. If that dish weren't layered, didn't have milk or saffron, I'd say it was
kichadi. That makes me wonder if any regional birianis are not layered and do
not contain saffron.

Orlando

"Robert Klute" ha scritto nel messaggio

>>>Could be anything. However, my favorite masoor biryani is not
>>>heavily>>>spiced. It is layered. (see, always counter examples ).
>>
> 3/4 cup whole lentil (masoor)
> 2 cup basmati rice
> 3 onions, sliced
> 1 onion, chopped
> 2 tomatoes, chopped
> 1/4 tsp saffron
> 1 tsp hot milk.
> 5 tbs ghee or butter
> 1/2 bunch of cilantro, destemmed and very coarsely chopped.
> salt to taste.
>
> Masala
> 4 cloves garlic
> 7 dry red chilies (I usually use less)
> 3 tsp coriander seed
> 1 1/2 tsp cumin seed
> 4 tsp poppy seed (khus-khus)
> 1" ginger

Thank you for that! I was amazed to find something that sounds deliciously
exotic for which I have every ingredient. Some, admittedly, were bought in
much bigger cities, but I have them, nonetheless. It sounds delightful and
I will make it when it is cool again. (I must be a wuss because I am sure
Indian ladies make this when it is blazing hot.)

The lentils are which ones?

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:23:01 +0200, "Giusi" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Robert Klute" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>>>>Could be anything. However, my favorite masoor biryani is not
>>>>heavily>>>spiced. It is layered. (see, always counter examples ).
>>>
>> 3/4 cup whole lentil (masoor)
>> 2 cup basmati rice
>> 3 onions, sliced
>> 1 onion, chopped
>> 2 tomatoes, chopped
>> 1/4 tsp saffron
>> 1 tsp hot milk.
>> 5 tbs ghee or butter
>> 1/2 bunch of cilantro, destemmed and very coarsely chopped.
>> salt to taste.
>>
>> Masala
>> 4 cloves garlic
>> 7 dry red chilies (I usually use less)
>> 3 tsp coriander seed
>> 1 1/2 tsp cumin seed
>> 4 tsp poppy seed (khus-khus)
>> 1" ginger
>
>Thank you for that! I was amazed to find something that sounds deliciously
>exotic for which I have every ingredient. Some, admittedly, were bought in
>much bigger cities, but I have them, nonetheless. It sounds delightful and
>I will make it when it is cool again. (I must be a wuss because I am sure
>Indian ladies make this when it is blazing hot.)
>
>The lentils are which ones?

Nothing exotic. The ones labeled lentils at the local mega mart in the
rice, beans, and dry pasta section. They may be labled green lentils or
french lentils. They are Lens shaped, sort of greenish brown skin.

Here is a picture of them.
http://store.indianfoodsco.com/groce...?itemid=AJDL19