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Thread: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

  1. #1
    Jim Elbrecht Guest

    Default 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    I want to make some mini sub rolls today. I feel like a Kaiser roll
    type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.

    But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    sourdough or a poolish of some sort.

    Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the bill?

    I've got a bit of roast beef that I want to make into sandwiches and
    dip in a consomme I have on hand.

    Jim

  2. #2
    ImStillMags Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    On Feb 1, 7:13*am, Jim Elbrecht <elbre...@email.com> wrote:
    > I want to make some mini sub rolls today. * I feel like a Kaiser roll
    > type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.
    >
    > But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    > sourdough or a poolish of some sort.
    >
    > Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the bill?
    >
    > I've got a bit of roast beef that I want to make into sandwiches and
    > dip in a consomme I have on hand. *
    >
    > Jim


    what about a French bread?

  3. #3
    Nancy Young Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    ImStillMags wrote:
    > On Feb 1, 7:13 am, Jim Elbrecht <elbre...@email.com> wrote:
    >> I want to make some mini sub rolls today. I feel like a Kaiser roll
    >> type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.
    >>
    >> But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    >> sourdough or a poolish of some sort.
    >>
    >> Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the
    >> bill?
    >>
    >> I've got a bit of roast beef that I want to make into sandwiches and
    >> dip in a consomme I have on hand.


    > what about a French bread?


    Sounds good to me. I buy what they label French Rolls for
    things like cheesesteaks, meatballs sandwiches. They fit the
    bill and I think they'd be perfect for what sounds like a French
    dip.

    nancy

  4. #4
    spamtrap1888 Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    On Feb 1, 7:46*am, "Nancy Young" <rjynly...@comcast.net> wrote:
    > ImStillMags wrote:
    > > On Feb 1, 7:13 am, Jim Elbrecht <elbre...@email.com> wrote:
    > >> I want to make some mini sub rolls today. I feel like a Kaiser roll
    > >> type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.

    >
    > >> But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    > >> sourdough or a poolish of some sort.

    >
    > >> Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the
    > >> bill?

    >
    > >> I've got a bit of roast beef that I want to make into sandwiches and
    > >> dip in a consomme I have on hand.

    > > what about a French bread?

    >
    > Sounds good to me. *I buy what they label French Rolls for
    > things like cheesesteaks, meatballs sandwiches. *They fit the
    > bill and I think they'd be perfect for what sounds like a French
    > dip.
    >


    In Chicago I would buy Gonnella bread. Where I live now I get
    Vietnamese "baguettes."

  5. #5
    Jim Elbrecht Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    ImStillMags <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Feb 1, 7:13*am, Jim Elbrecht <elbre...@email.com> wrote:
    >> I want to make some mini sub rolls today. * I feel like a Kaiser roll
    >> type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.


    -snip-
    >
    >what about a French bread?


    Hmm-- If you and Nancy think so- I just might give it a try. I've
    got a French bread recipe but it hasn't ever impressed me on its own.

    As a holder of beef and soaker of juice, it might work better.

    Thanks,
    Jim

  6. #6
    Sqwertz Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 10:13:15 -0500, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

    > I've got a bit of roast beef that I want to make into sandwiches and
    > dip in a consomme I have on hand.


    Beef on a caraway and salt studded weck roll.

    -sw

  7. #7
    l, not -l Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?


    On 1-Feb-2011, Jim Elbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I want to make some mini sub rolls today. I feel like a Kaiser roll
    > type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.
    >
    > But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    > sourdough or a poolish of some sort.
    >
    > Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the bill?


    Kaiser rolls are also known as Vienna rolls. Here's the recipe from
    "Secrets of a Jewish Baker", by George Greenstein.

    * Exported from MasterCook *

    Vienna Rolls

    Recipe By :
    Serving Size : 18 Preparation Time :0:00
    Categories :

    Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
    -------- ------------ --------------------------------
    1/4 cup warm water
    1 1/2 packages active dry yeast
    3/4 cup cold water -- ice water in hot weather
    2 large eggs
    2 tablespoons vegetable oil
    2 tablespoons malt syrup -- see note:
    2 tablespoons sugar
    3 1/2 cups bread flour -- 3.5 to 4 cups
    2 1/4 teaspoons salt
    flour for dusting work surface
    oil for greasing bowl

    In a large bowl, sprinkle the yeast over the warm water; stir to dissolve.
    Add the cold water, eggs, oil, malt syrup, sugar, 3.5 cups flour and salt.
    Stir until the dough comes away from the sides of the bowl, adding more
    flour if necessary.

    Turn out the dough onto a lightly floured surface. Knead vigorously, adding
    more flour in small amounts if the dough is sticky.

    This should be a stiff dough. Knead until the dough is smooth and elastic
    and the gluten is fully developed (12 to 15 minutes).

    Rising: Transfer the dough to an oiled bowl and turn to coat. Cover and
    allow to rise for 30 minutes. Punch down and allow to rise once more until
    doubled in volume (20 to 30 minutes).

    Shaping: Punch down the dough again, divide into 3 pieces, cover and let
    stand 15 minutes. Roll out into ropes. Cut 6 equal pieces from each rope,
    then proceed with shaping. This is done by flattening each piece into a 3
    inch round, then placing your left thumb on the circle. Stretch and fold a
    flap over your thumb. From this point on, keep your thumb in place inside
    the flap at all times. Seal the fold with a karate chop using the side of
    your hand. Begin a second flap over from the right side. Seal the edge
    with a chop as before. Turn your thumb an the dough slightly
    counterclockwise and pull a third flap over. Chop to seal. Turn just
    enough to bring the fourth fold comfortably in line, sealing with the
    side-handed shop. Stretch and fold a fifth time. Simultaneously remove
    your left thumb while pushing the tip of the last flap with the right thumb
    into the hole left by the vacating thumb. Your should have a five-petaled,
    rose-shaped design. With practice, you'll lear to quickly make perfectly
    shaped rolls.

    Note: At one time malt was always used in the bakery to enhance the dough
    and add color. When bakers began to freeze unbaked dough they found it
    necessary to eliminate the malt. If you can find malt syrup in your
    supermarket or natural foods store, use it. Malt adds a special quality to
    the finished roll. When unavailable, omit the malt and double the sugar in
    the recipe.

    Description:
    "Vienna rolls, also called Kaiser rolls or hard rolls, are known for their
    distinctive shape and are rich in egg, oil and sugar."
    Yield:
    "18 rolls"

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 133 Calories; 3g Fat (17.4% calories
    from fat); 4g Protein; 23g Carbohydrate; trace Dietary Fiber; 24mg
    Cholesterol; 276mg Sodium. Exchanges: 1 1/2 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 1/2
    Fat; 0 Other Carbohydrates.


    Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


    --
    Change Cujo to Juno in email address.


    If you have dietary issues that make nutrition information very important
    to you, please calculate your own; the nutrition information supplied with
    this recipe is approximate and should NOT be used by those for whom the
    information is critical.

  8. #8
    l, not -l Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?


    On 1-Feb-2011, "l, not -l" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Turn your thumb an the dough slightly
    > counterclockwise and pull a third flap over. Chop to seal. Turn just
    > enough to bring the fourth fold comfortably in line, sealing with the
    > side-handed shop. Stretch and fold a fifth time. Simultaneously remove
    > your left thumb while pushing the tip of the last flap with the right
    > thumb
    > into the hole left by the vacating thumb. Your should have a
    > five-petaled,
    > rose-shaped design. With practice, you'll lear to quickly make perfectly
    > shaped rolls.


    the typo's are probably not a problem for most; but, here is the corrected
    text:

    Turn your thumb and the dough slightly counterclockwise and pull a third
    flap over. Chop to seal. Turn just enough to bring the fourth fold
    comfortably in line, sealing with the side-handed shop. Stretch and fold a
    fifth time. Simultaneously remove your left thumb while pushing the tip of
    the last flap with the right thumb into the hole left by the vacating thumb.
    Your should have a five-petaled, rose-shaped design. With practice, you'll
    learn to quickly make perfectly shaped rolls.


    --
    Change Cujo to Juno in email address.

  9. #9
    Jim Elbrecht Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    "l, not -l" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >On 1-Feb-2011, Jim Elbrecht <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> I want to make some mini sub rolls today. I feel like a Kaiser roll
    >> type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.
    >>
    >> But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    >> sourdough or a poolish of some sort.
    >>
    >> Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the bill?

    >
    >Kaiser rolls are also known as Vienna rolls. Here's the recipe from
    >"Secrets of a Jewish Baker", by George Greenstein.
    >
    >* Exported from MasterCook *
    >
    > Vienna Rolls


    Hehe-- Change 3. I decided to go with some beef soup today - and do
    the rolls tomorrow. I just put the poolish in for the first rise.

    And now I'm going to try my hand at making Vienna rolls to have with
    the soup. Ah-- life is tough.<g>

    Thanks-- This looks delicious. And it has some malt syrup in it
    which I've been wanting to see what that adds to a bread recipe.

    -snip-
    >
    >Shaping: Punch down the dough again, divide into 3 pieces, cover and let
    >stand 15 minutes. Roll out into ropes. Cut 6 equal pieces from each rope,
    >then proceed with shaping. This is done by flattening each piece into a 3
    >inch round, then placing your left thumb on the circle. Stretch and fold a
    >flap over your thumb. From this point on, keep your thumb in place inside
    >the flap at all times. Seal the fold with a karate chop using the side of
    >your hand. Begin a second flap over from the right side. Seal the edge
    >with a chop as before. Turn your thumb an the dough slightly
    >counterclockwise and pull a third flap over. Chop to seal. Turn just
    >enough to bring the fourth fold comfortably in line, sealing with the
    >side-handed shop. Stretch and fold a fifth time. Simultaneously remove
    >your left thumb while pushing the tip of the last flap with the right thumb
    >into the hole left by the vacating thumb. Your should have a five-petaled,
    >rose-shaped design. With practice, you'll lear to quickly make perfectly
    >shaped rolls.


    I've watched a couple videos on this and I don't have much
    confidence--- but it ought to be fun.

    >Description:
    > "Vienna rolls, also called Kaiser rolls or hard rolls, are known for their
    > distinctive shape and are rich in egg, oil and sugar."
    >Yield:
    > "18 rolls"


    It's the eggs! I've tried to do crusty rolls with my go-to bread
    recipe, and have come close, but never was real happy. It is very
    similar to this except for the eggs.
    Thanks-
    Jim

  10. #10
    Jim Elbrecht Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 11:21:28 -0600, Sqwertz <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 10:13:15 -0500, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
    >
    >> I've got a bit of roast beef that I want to make into sandwiches and
    >> dip in a consomme I have on hand.

    >
    >Beef on a caraway and salt studded weck roll.


    Hmmmmm. . . caraway and salt sound like how some of tonight's Vienna
    rolls will be topped. . . . or tomorrows Hoagie rolls? . . .
    decisions, decisions. . . yum, yum.

    Jim

  11. #11
    Michael Kuettner Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    "Jim Elbrecht" schrieb :
    >I want to make some mini sub rolls today. I feel like a Kaiser roll
    > type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.
    >
    > But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    > sourdough or a poolish of some sort.
    >
    > Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the bill?
    >


    There's no sourdough in a Kaisersemmel.
    Making the real thing is a lot of work (the dough has to be worked 5 times
    before it's ready).
    That's the bad news. The good news : You need diamalt for the dough ;-)

    Cheers,

    Michael Kuettner


  12. #12
    Michael Kuettner Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    "l, not -l" schrieb :
    >
    > Kaiser rolls are also known as Vienna rolls. Here's the recipe from
    > "Secrets of a Jewish Baker", by George Greenstein.

    <snip strange recipe>

    Those are AngloSaxon rolls.
    Nothing to do with the Austrian Kaisersemmel.

    Cheers,

    Michael "eggs in a Semmel dough ???" Kuettner


  13. #13
    spamtrap1888 Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    On Feb 1, 1:37*pm, "Michael Kuettner" <Michael.Kuett...@gmx.at> wrote:
    > "Jim Elbrecht" schrieb :
    >
    > >I want to make some mini sub rolls today. * I feel like a Kaiser roll
    > > type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.

    >
    > > But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    > > sourdough or a poolish of some sort.

    >
    > > Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the bill?

    >
    > There's no sourdough in a Kaisersemmel.
    > Making the real thing is a lot of work (the dough has to be worked 5 times
    > before it's ready).
    > That's the bad news. The good news : You need diamalt for the dough ;-)
    >


    How do you get the "pinwheel" shape on top?

  14. #14
    spamtrap1888 Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    On Feb 1, 1:46*pm, "Michael Kuettner" <Michael.Kuett...@gmx.at> wrote:
    > "l, not -l" schrieb :
    >
    > > Kaiser rolls are also known as Vienna rolls. *Here's the recipe from
    > > "Secrets of a Jewish Baker", by George Greenstein.

    >
    > <snip strange recipe>
    >
    > Those are AngloSaxon rolls.
    > Nothing to do with the Austrian Kaisersemmel.
    >


    Rezepten I see online call for No. 550 flour. What is that?

  15. #15
    Michael Kuettner Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    "spamtrap1888" schrieb :
    On Feb 1, 1:37 pm, "Michael Kuettner" wrote:
    > "Jim Elbrecht" schrieb :
    >
    > >I want to make some mini sub rolls today. I feel like a Kaiser roll
    > > type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.

    >
    > > But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    > > sourdough or a poolish of some sort.

    >
    > > Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the bill?

    >
    > There's no sourdough in a Kaisersemmel.
    > Making the real thing is a lot of work (the dough has to be worked 5 times
    > before it's ready).
    > That's the bad news. The good news : You need diamalt for the dough ;-)
    >


    How do you get the "pinwheel" shape on top?


    ------------------------------------

    By folding and twisting.
    You form a rectangle from the dough. Then you fold in the four edges,
    press the dough together a little bit. Then you gently make the whole
    base into a round shape. That leads to the "pinwheel".
    A normal Semmel is easier to make. There you just form a flat, round shape
    and cut the "pinwheel" with a knife.

    Cheers,

    Michael Kuettner


  16. #16
    Michael Kuettner Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    "spamtrap1888" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:[email protected]...
    On Feb 1, 1:46 pm, "Michael Kuettner" <Michael.Kuett...@gmx.at> wrote:
    > "l, not -l" schrieb :
    >
    > > Kaiser rolls are also known as Vienna rolls. Here's the recipe from
    > > "Secrets of a Jewish Baker", by George Greenstein.

    >
    > <snip strange recipe>
    >
    > Those are AngloSaxon rolls.
    > Nothing to do with the Austrian Kaisersemmel.
    >


    Rezepten I see online call for No. 550 flour. What is that?

    ---------------------------------------

    That's the wrong type.
    You need wheat flour "700 glatt".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour

    That link gives you an idea what the number is about.
    Scroll down to "wheat flour".
    The 700 would mean something between "all-purpose" and
    "high-gluten".

    Cheers,

    Michael Kuettner




  17. #17
    Doug Freyburger Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    Sqwertz wrote:
    > Jim Elbrecht wrote:
    >
    >> I've got a bit of roast beef that I want to make into sandwiches and
    >> dip in a consomme I have on hand.

    >
    > Beef on a caraway and salt studded weck roll.


    Classic Buffalo style. Anyone from Buffalo will tend to think this is
    the best style roast beef sandwich anywhere. The roll is a standard
    Kaiser other than the coarse kosher salt and caraway seeds but round not
    long. The beef is not unlike the consomme style mentioned.

    At one point Schwabl's was the top rated beef sandwich place in the US
    according to some survey published on Yahoo. Being from Buffalo and
    biased in favor of that style I still belive it. When we drive in to
    visit family we tend to time the drive to arrive there at dinner time.
    Eleven hours on the road just to have roast beef. It happens. And
    visiting family as a bonus!

  18. #18
    Doug Freyburger Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    Michael Kuettner wrote:
    > "l, not -l" schrieb :
    >>
    >> Kaiser rolls are also known as Vienna rolls. Here's the recipe from
    >> "Secrets of a Jewish Baker", by George Greenstein.

    >
    > Those are AngloSaxon rolls.
    > Nothing to do with the Austrian Kaisersemmel.


    We also call Brussels style fried potatoes french fries. We call ground
    beef hamburg-er. American foods have bizarre names.

  19. #19
    Jim Elbrecht Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    "Michael Kuettner" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Jim Elbrecht" schrieb :
    >>I want to make some mini sub rolls today. I feel like a Kaiser roll
    >> type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.
    >>
    >> But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    >> sourdough or a poolish of some sort.
    >>
    >> Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the bill?
    >>

    >
    >There's no sourdough in a Kaisersemmel.


    It would likely make you cry if I took you to 3-4 local markets and
    made you feel & smell [I wouldn't have the heart to ask you to put
    them in your mouth] the variety of things we call Kaiser rolls.

    I hope the real thing is similar to the rolls we used to get out of a
    bakery in NJ--- but to tell you the truth I have no idea what is
    correct-- just what I like.

    >Making the real thing is a lot of work (the dough has to be worked 5 times
    >before it's ready).


    As long as I can work it with the dough hook, I'm good. My hands
    don't do much kneading, but I don't mind playing in the kitchen all
    day.

    >That's the bad news. The good news : You need diamalt for the dough ;-)


    That will make it all worthwhile.<g>

    So point me at a good traditional recipe. I like the looks of the
    one "l, not -l" posted-- but I'll be looking for ways to use up my
    couple tablespoons of malt powder next week.

    Thanks,
    Jim

  20. #20
    Boron Elgar Guest

    Default Re: 6" rolls like a Kaiser roll?

    On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 19:05:06 -0500, Jim Elbrecht <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >"Michael Kuettner" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>"Jim Elbrecht" schrieb :
    >>>I want to make some mini sub rolls today. I feel like a Kaiser roll
    >>> type with a crusty exterior and a bit of a yeasty flavor.
    >>>
    >>> But I don't use sourdough and most of what I see online uses either
    >>> sourdough or a poolish of some sort.
    >>>
    >>> Does someone have a recipe up their sleeve that might be fit the bill?
    >>>

    >>
    >>There's no sourdough in a Kaisersemmel.

    >
    >It would likely make you cry if I took you to 3-4 local markets and
    >made you feel & smell [I wouldn't have the heart to ask you to put
    >them in your mouth] the variety of things we call Kaiser rolls.
    >
    >I hope the real thing is similar to the rolls we used to get out of a
    >bakery in NJ--- but to tell you the truth I have no idea what is
    >correct-- just what I like.
    >
    >>Making the real thing is a lot of work (the dough has to be worked 5 times
    >>before it's ready).

    >
    >As long as I can work it with the dough hook, I'm good. My hands
    >don't do much kneading, but I don't mind playing in the kitchen all
    >day.
    >
    >>That's the bad news. The good news : You need diamalt for the dough ;-)

    >
    >That will make it all worthwhile.<g>
    >
    >So point me at a good traditional recipe. I like the looks of the
    >one "l, not -l" posted-- but I'll be looking for ways to use up my
    >couple tablespoons of malt powder next week.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Jim


    If you can hop on over to alt.bread.recipes, we had quite a discussion
    about Kaisers late last week.. Mostly it centered on a Peter Reinhardt
    recipe that had been adapted a bit. I adapted it even more, but I will
    tell you to go read up, rather than post it, because although the
    rolls were quite tasty, the sides and bottom crust did not retain the
    super-crisp, shattery crust I, myself, prefer for such rolls.

    They looked ok, though:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2564880...7625921107212/

    And it isn't the first time I have tried my hand at them. I have not
    found an ideal recipe yet, but I do not make the attempt more often
    then every couple of years.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2564880...7604518778506/

    So many breads to bake, so little time...

    Boron

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