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Thread: 19th century cooking

  1. #1
    SteveB Guest

    Default 19th century cooking

    We went to The Cosmopolitan in Silver Reef, Utah, last night. It was just
    okay. The site was the actual site of a restaurant there from about 1880 to
    about 1895. The recreation wasn't even close to the original. Although the
    restaurant calls itself a four star restaurant, I found it only passable.
    The lobster bisque was lacking a lobster taste. I had seafood risotto. The
    plate had some shrimp and langostino which were represented to be lobsters.
    It had some salmon, scallops, and sole, also. My wife had lobster ravioli,
    and they were skimpy on the lobster.

    Anyway, we looked at the menu, and it has some old pictures, and historical
    data on it.

    I was wondering what anyone here (who actually knows, that is) could offer
    about restaurants of that era. Without refrigeration, the menu had to be
    "different". I would wonder what the common fare was in restaurants at that
    time, and what the common fare would have been say, for a boarding house,
    and for the common household.

    This lovely place is in a historic ghost town. When driving there, we saw
    about thirty deer, so fresh deer probably would have been a staple. I know
    that in many restaurants, fresh game and fowl were common, as was commercial
    hunting without restrictions from Fish and Game Departments.

    Anyone care to comment?

    Steve



  2. #2
    Wayne Boatwright Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    On Thu 26 Feb 2009 06:35:53p, SteveB told us...

    > We went to The Cosmopolitan in Silver Reef, Utah, last night. It was
    > just okay. The site was the actual site of a restaurant there from
    > about 1880 to about 1895. The recreation wasn't even close to the
    > original. Although the restaurant calls itself a four star restaurant,
    > I found it only passable. The lobster bisque was lacking a lobster
    > taste. I had seafood risotto. The plate had some shrimp and langostino
    > which were represented to be lobsters. It had some salmon, scallops, and
    > sole, also. My wife had lobster ravioli, and they were skimpy on the
    > lobster.
    >
    > Anyway, we looked at the menu, and it has some old pictures, and
    > historical data on it.
    >
    > I was wondering what anyone here (who actually knows, that is) could
    > offer about restaurants of that era. Without refrigeration, the menu
    > had to be "different". I would wonder what the common fare was in
    > restaurants at that time, and what the common fare would have been say,
    > for a boarding house, and for the common household.
    >
    > This lovely place is in a historic ghost town. When driving there, we
    > saw about thirty deer, so fresh deer probably would have been a staple.
    > I know that in many restaurants, fresh game and fowl were common, as was
    > commercial hunting without restrictions from Fish and Game Departments.
    >
    > Anyone care to comment?
    >
    > Steve


    Most restaurants of that era bought and served whatever was freshly
    available for the season. Out of season the average restaurant relied on
    canned or preserved foods. Of course, meats and fish could still be
    freshly butchered or caught. There was little long term storage. Really
    top drawer places probably purchased fresh produce from greenhouse growers.
    There was ice, of course, and could be used to some degree to keep things
    cold and fresh, but certainly limited.

    --
    Wayne Boatwright

    "One man's meat is another man's poison"
    - Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

  3. #3
    Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    On Feb 26, 7:35*pm, "SteveB" <oldf...@deepends.com> wrote:
    > We went to The Cosmopolitan in Silver Reef, Utah, last night. *It was just
    > okay. *The site was the actual site of a restaurant there from about 1880 to
    > about 1895. *The recreation wasn't even close to the original. *Although the
    > restaurant calls itself a four star restaurant, I found it only passable.
    > The lobster bisque was lacking a lobster taste. *I had seafood risotto.*The
    > plate had some shrimp and langostino which were represented to be lobsters.
    > It had some salmon, scallops, and sole, also. *My wife had lobster ravioli,
    > and they were skimpy on the lobster.
    >
    > Anyway, we looked at the menu, and it has some old pictures, and historical
    > data on it.
    >
    > I was wondering what anyone here (who actually knows, that is) could offer
    > about restaurants of that era. *Without refrigeration, the menu had to be
    > "different". *I would wonder what the common fare was in restaurants atthat
    > time, and what the common fare would have been say, for a boarding house,
    > and for the common household.
    >
    > This lovely place is in a historic ghost town. *When driving there, we saw
    > about thirty deer, so fresh deer probably would have been a staple. *I know
    > that in many restaurants, fresh game and fowl were common, as was commercial
    > hunting without restrictions from Fish and Game Departments.
    >
    > Anyone care to comment?
    >
    > Steve

    ==========================

    My comment, respectfully, would be that the only thing sillier than
    ordering lobster in Utah in 2009 would be ordering lobster in Utah in
    1889.

    But don't feel too bad, Steve. Couple of years ago I got really lousy
    lobster bisque in SanDiego.

    Lynn in Fargo (North Dakota)
    No good lobster here either.

  4. #4
    SteveB Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking


    "Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    On Feb 26, 7:35 pm, "SteveB" <oldf...@deepends.com> wrote:
    > We went to The Cosmopolitan in Silver Reef, Utah, last night. It was just
    > okay. The site was the actual site of a restaurant there from about 1880
    > to
    > about 1895. The recreation wasn't even close to the original. Although the
    > restaurant calls itself a four star restaurant, I found it only passable.
    > The lobster bisque was lacking a lobster taste. I had seafood risotto. The
    > plate had some shrimp and langostino which were represented to be
    > lobsters.
    > It had some salmon, scallops, and sole, also. My wife had lobster ravioli,
    > and they were skimpy on the lobster.
    >
    > Anyway, we looked at the menu, and it has some old pictures, and
    > historical
    > data on it.
    >
    > I was wondering what anyone here (who actually knows, that is) could offer
    > about restaurants of that era. Without refrigeration, the menu had to be
    > "different". I would wonder what the common fare was in restaurants at
    > that
    > time, and what the common fare would have been say, for a boarding house,
    > and for the common household.
    >
    > This lovely place is in a historic ghost town. When driving there, we saw
    > about thirty deer, so fresh deer probably would have been a staple. I know
    > that in many restaurants, fresh game and fowl were common, as was
    > commercial
    > hunting without restrictions from Fish and Game Departments.
    >
    > Anyone care to comment?
    >
    > Steve

    ==========================

    My comment, respectfully, would be that the only thing sillier than
    ordering lobster in Utah in 2009 would be ordering lobster in Utah in
    1889.

    But don't feel too bad, Steve. Couple of years ago I got really lousy
    lobster bisque in SanDiego.

    Lynn in Fargo (North Dakota)
    No good lobster here either.

    I grew up in Las Vegas. I remember this story from an old menu, I think
    from the Golden Nugget or the Showboat. A miner who had just struck it rich
    went into a restaurant and asked what was the most expensive things they
    had. They said oysters and eggs. He said fry up a mess of them mixed
    together. The dish was called a Hangtown Fry.

    Steve



  5. #5
    Bob Terwilliger Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    SteveB wrote:

    > I grew up in Las Vegas. I remember this story from an old menu, I think
    > from the Golden Nugget or the Showboat. A miner who had just struck it
    > rich went into a restaurant and asked what was the most expensive things
    > they had. They said oysters and eggs. He said fry up a mess of them
    > mixed together. The dish was called a Hangtown Fry.



    Yep, that took place in Placerville, California, not very far at all from
    where I live. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangtown_fry

    I'd guess that since the story was about a gold miner, you probably saw it
    in the Golden Nugget.

    Bob


  6. #6
    bulka Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    Lobster in Utah?

    No.

    Sure, you can get anything flown or frozen anywhere. Probably can get
    "sushi" at a gas station or 7-11 in Provo, but that's not food.

    Look at a map, dude. How far are you from any place a crustacean
    could live? You want to eat anything that traveled that far on ice in
    a train or stagecoach?

    I'm sorry, but any idiot who goes into the desert looking for seafood
    gets no sympathy from me.

    B


  7. #7
    Dan Abel Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "SteveB" <[email protected]> wrote:


    > I grew up in Las Vegas. I remember this story from an old menu, I think
    > from the Golden Nugget or the Showboat. A miner who had just struck it rich
    > went into a restaurant and asked what was the most expensive things they
    > had. They said oysters and eggs. He said fry up a mess of them mixed
    > together. The dish was called a Hangtown Fry.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangtown_fry

    Hangtown (now called Placerville) is about 100 miles east of me.

    It was a mining town during the California 49er gold rush.

    --
    Dan Abel
    Petaluma, California USA
    [email protected]

  8. #8
    Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    On Feb 26, 11:23*pm, "SteveB" <oldf...@deepends.com> wrote:
    > "Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" <lynng...@i29.net> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]..
    > On Feb 26, 7:35 pm, "SteveB" <oldf...@deepends.com> wrote:
    >
    > > We went to The Cosmopolitan in Silver Reef, Utah, last night. It was just
    > > okay. The site was the actual site of a restaurant there from about 1880
    > > to
    > > about 1895. The recreation wasn't even close to the original. Although the
    > > restaurant calls itself a four star restaurant, I found it only passable.
    > > The lobster bisque was lacking a lobster taste. I had seafood risotto. The
    > > plate had some shrimp and langostino which were represented to be
    > > lobsters.
    > > It had some salmon, scallops, and sole, also. My wife had lobster ravioli,
    > > and they were skimpy on the lobster.

    >
    > > Anyway, we looked at the menu, and it has some old pictures, and
    > > historical
    > > data on it.

    >
    > > I was wondering what anyone here (who actually knows, that is) could offer
    > > about restaurants of that era. Without refrigeration, the menu had to be
    > > "different". I would wonder what the common fare was in restaurants at
    > > that
    > > time, and what the common fare would have been say, for a boarding house,
    > > and for the common household.

    >
    > > This lovely place is in a historic ghost town. When driving there, we saw
    > > about thirty deer, so fresh deer probably would have been a staple. I know
    > > that in many restaurants, fresh game and fowl were common, as was
    > > commercial
    > > hunting without restrictions from Fish and Game Departments.

    >
    > > Anyone care to comment?

    >
    > > Steve

    >
    > ==========================
    >
    > My comment, respectfully, would be that the only thing sillier than
    > ordering lobster in Utah in 2009 would be ordering lobster in Utah in
    > 1889.
    >
    > But don't feel too bad, Steve. *Couple of years ago I got really lousy
    > lobster bisque in SanDiego.
    >
    > Lynn in Fargo (North Dakota)
    > No good lobster here either.
    >
    > I grew up in Las Vegas. *I remember this story from an old menu, I think
    > from the Golden Nugget or the Showboat. *A miner who had just struck itrich
    > went into a restaurant and asked what was the most expensive things they
    > had. *They said oysters and eggs. *He said fry up a mess of them mixed
    > together. *The dish was called a Hangtown Fry.
    >
    > Steve


    True story but it happened in San Francisco I believe.
    :-)
    Lynn in Fargo

  9. #9
    Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    On Feb 27, 2:02*am, Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig <lynng...@i29.net>
    wrote:
    > On Feb 26, 11:23*pm, "SteveB" <oldf...@deepends.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > "Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig" <lynng...@i29.net> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]..
    > > On Feb 26, 7:35 pm, "SteveB" <oldf...@deepends.com> wrote:

    >
    > > > We went to The Cosmopolitan in Silver Reef, Utah, last night. It was just
    > > > okay. The site was the actual site of a restaurant there from about 1880
    > > > to
    > > > about 1895. The recreation wasn't even close to the original. Although the
    > > > restaurant calls itself a four star restaurant, I found it only passable.
    > > > The lobster bisque was lacking a lobster taste. I had seafood risotto.. The
    > > > plate had some shrimp and langostino which were represented to be
    > > > lobsters.
    > > > It had some salmon, scallops, and sole, also. My wife had lobster ravioli,
    > > > and they were skimpy on the lobster.

    >
    > > > Anyway, we looked at the menu, and it has some old pictures, and
    > > > historical
    > > > data on it.

    >
    > > > I was wondering what anyone here (who actually knows, that is) could offer
    > > > about restaurants of that era. Without refrigeration, the menu had tobe
    > > > "different". I would wonder what the common fare was in restaurants at
    > > > that
    > > > time, and what the common fare would have been say, for a boarding house,
    > > > and for the common household.

    >
    > > > This lovely place is in a historic ghost town. When driving there, wesaw
    > > > about thirty deer, so fresh deer probably would have been a staple. Iknow
    > > > that in many restaurants, fresh game and fowl were common, as was
    > > > commercial
    > > > hunting without restrictions from Fish and Game Departments.

    >
    > > > Anyone care to comment?

    >
    > > > Steve

    >
    > > ==========================

    >
    > > My comment, respectfully, would be that the only thing sillier than
    > > ordering lobster in Utah in 2009 would be ordering lobster in Utah in
    > > 1889.

    >
    > > But don't feel too bad, Steve. *Couple of years ago I got really lousy
    > > lobster bisque in SanDiego.

    >
    > > Lynn in Fargo (North Dakota)
    > > No good lobster here either.

    >
    > > I grew up in Las Vegas. *I remember this story from an old menu, I think
    > > from the Golden Nugget or the Showboat. *A miner who had just struck it rich
    > > went into a restaurant and asked what was the most expensive things they
    > > had. *They said oysters and eggs. *He said fry up a mess of them mixed
    > > together. *The dish was called a Hangtown Fry.

    >
    > > Steve

    >
    > True story but it happened in San Francisco I believe.
    > :-)
    > Lynn in Fargo


    Oooops! At least I got the state right!
    Mea Culpa
    Lynn

  10. #10
    Horry Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:13:38 -0800, bulka wrote:

    > Lobster in Utah?
    >
    > No.
    >
    > Sure, you can get anything flown or frozen anywhere. Probably can get
    > "sushi" at a gas station or 7-11 in Provo, but that's not food.
    >
    > Look at a map, dude. How far are you from any place a crustacean could
    > live? You want to eat anything that traveled that far on ice in a train
    > or stagecoach?
    >
    > I'm sorry, but any idiot who goes into the desert looking for seafood
    > gets no sympathy from me.


    He wasn't seeking sympathy.

  11. #11
    Jean B. Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    SteveB wrote:
    > We went to The Cosmopolitan in Silver Reef, Utah, last night. It was just
    > okay. The site was the actual site of a restaurant there from about 1880 to
    > about 1895. The recreation wasn't even close to the original. Although the
    > restaurant calls itself a four star restaurant, I found it only passable.
    > The lobster bisque was lacking a lobster taste. I had seafood risotto. The
    > plate had some shrimp and langostino which were represented to be lobsters.
    > It had some salmon, scallops, and sole, also. My wife had lobster ravioli,
    > and they were skimpy on the lobster.
    >
    > Anyway, we looked at the menu, and it has some old pictures, and historical
    > data on it.
    >
    > I was wondering what anyone here (who actually knows, that is) could offer
    > about restaurants of that era. Without refrigeration, the menu had to be
    > "different". I would wonder what the common fare was in restaurants at that
    > time, and what the common fare would have been say, for a boarding house,
    > and for the common household.
    >
    > This lovely place is in a historic ghost town. When driving there, we saw
    > about thirty deer, so fresh deer probably would have been a staple. I know
    > that in many restaurants, fresh game and fowl were common, as was commercial
    > hunting without restrictions from Fish and Game Departments.
    >
    > Anyone care to comment?
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >

    This sounds like an interesting idea, but way off base to me.

    --
    Jean B.

  12. #12
    brooklyn1 Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking


    "bulka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Lobster in Utah?
    >
    > No.
    >
    > Sure, you can get anything flown or frozen anywhere. Probably can get
    > "sushi" at a gas station or 7-11 in Provo, but that's not food.
    >
    > Look at a map, dude. How far are you from any place a crustacean
    > could live? You want to eat anything that traveled that far on ice in
    > a train or stagecoach?
    >
    > I'm sorry, but any idiot who goes into the desert looking for seafood
    > gets no sympathy from me.


    You're the idiot... many Las Vegas eateries serve what's unquestionably the
    widest variety of hours fresh from the seven seas seafood on the planet.

    http://www.harrahs.com/casinos/rio/r...et-detail.html



  13. #13
    elaich Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    Dan Abel <[email protected]> wrote in news:dabel-2119E3.22222126022009@c-61-
    68-245-199.per.connect.net.au:

    > Hangtown (now called Placerville) is about 100 miles east of me.


    East?

  14. #14
    elaich Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    elaich <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > Dan Abel <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:dabel-2119E3.22222126022009@c-61- 68-245-199.per.connect.net.au:
    >
    >> Hangtown (now called Placerville) is about 100 miles east of me.

    >
    > East?
    >


    Oops... it's early yet.

  15. #15
    Dan Abel Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    In article
    <[email protected]>,
    Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig <[email protected]> wrote:


    > > I grew up in Las Vegas. *I remember this story from an old menu, I think
    > > from the Golden Nugget or the Showboat. *A miner who had just struck it
    > > rich
    > > went into a restaurant and asked what was the most expensive things they
    > > had. *They said oysters and eggs. *He said fry up a mess of them mixed
    > > together. *The dish was called a Hangtown Fry.


    > True story but it happened in San Francisco I believe.


    No, SF is on the ocean, so oysters wouldn't have been one of the most
    expensive things they had.

    It was...[drum roll]...Hangtown!

    --
    Dan Abel
    Petaluma, California USA
    [email protected]

  16. #16
    Dan Abel Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    In article <[email protected]>, elaich <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Dan Abel <[email protected]> wrote in news:dabel-2119E3.22222126022009@c-61-
    > 68-245-199.per.connect.net.au:
    >
    > > Hangtown (now called Placerville) is about 100 miles east of me.

    >
    > East?


    Close enough:

    http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Plac...ma&2s=CA&2z=94
    954

    131.41 miles, according to the instructions.

    We don't actually take that route. We take the back roads, which avoid
    the traffic and reduce the miles.

    We haven't been to the gold country in a long time, we're probably about
    due for a visit.

    --
    Dan Abel
    Petaluma, California USA
    [email protected]

  17. #17
    PeterLucas Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    Dan Abel <[email protected]> wrote in news:dabel-B1752B.10560527022009@c-61-
    68-245-199.per.connect.net.au:

    > In article <[email protected]>, elaich <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Dan Abel <[email protected]> wrote in news:dabel-2119E3.22222126022009@c-

    61-
    >> 68-245-199.per.connect.net.au:
    >>
    >> > Hangtown (now called Placerville) is about 100 miles east of me.

    >>
    >> East?

    >
    > Close enough:
    >
    > http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Plac...luma&2s=CA&2z=

    94
    > 954
    >
    > 131.41 miles, according to the instructions.
    >
    > We don't actually take that route. We take the back roads, which avoid
    > the traffic and reduce the miles.
    >
    > We haven't been to the gold country in a long time, we're probably about
    > due for a visit.
    >



    Just had a look at it on Google Earth......... what are all those
    absolutely bare spots of land to the North east of Placerville??

    Directly north of Pollock Pines.



    --
    Peter Lucas
    Brisbane
    Australia

    Killfile all Google Groups posters.........

    http://improve-usenet.org/

    http://improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html

  18. #18
    PeterLucas Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking

    Dan Abel <[email protected]> wrote in news:dabel-79BDB6.10403827022009@c-61-
    68-245-199.per.connect.net.au:

    > In article
    > <[email protected]>,
    > Lynn from Fargo Ografmorffig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> > I grew up in Las Vegas. *I remember this story from an old menu, I

    think
    >> > from the Golden Nugget or the Showboat. *A miner who had just struck

    it
    >> > rich
    >> > went into a restaurant and asked what was the most expensive things

    they
    >> > had. *They said oysters and eggs. *He said fry up a mess of them

    mixed
    >> > together. *The dish was called a Hangtown Fry.

    >
    >> True story but it happened in San Francisco I believe.

    >
    > No, SF is on the ocean, so oysters wouldn't have been one of the most
    > expensive things they had.
    >
    > It was...[drum roll]...Hangtown!
    >



    I can sorta see why they had that name. Just saw a pic of the Hangmans
    Tree Bar/Inn!!

    http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3384430



    --
    Peter Lucas
    Brisbane
    Australia

    Killfile all Google Groups posters.........

    http://improve-usenet.org/

    http://improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html

  19. #19
    SteveB Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking


    "Jean B." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > SteveB wrote:
    >> We went to The Cosmopolitan in Silver Reef, Utah, last night. It was
    >> just okay. The site was the actual site of a restaurant there from about
    >> 1880 to about 1895. The recreation wasn't even close to the original.
    >> Although the restaurant calls itself a four star restaurant, I found it
    >> only passable. The lobster bisque was lacking a lobster taste. I had
    >> seafood risotto. The plate had some shrimp and langostino which were
    >> represented to be lobsters. It had some salmon, scallops, and sole, also.
    >> My wife had lobster ravioli, and they were skimpy on the lobster.
    >>
    >> Anyway, we looked at the menu, and it has some old pictures, and
    >> historical data on it.
    >>
    >> I was wondering what anyone here (who actually knows, that is) could
    >> offer about restaurants of that era. Without refrigeration, the menu had
    >> to be "different". I would wonder what the common fare was in
    >> restaurants at that time, and what the common fare would have been say,
    >> for a boarding house, and for the common household.
    >>
    >> This lovely place is in a historic ghost town. When driving there, we
    >> saw about thirty deer, so fresh deer probably would have been a staple.
    >> I know that in many restaurants, fresh game and fowl were common, as was
    >> commercial hunting without restrictions from Fish and Game Departments.
    >>
    >> Anyone care to comment?
    >>
    >> Steve

    > This sounds like an interesting idea, but way off base to me.
    >
    > --
    > Jean B.


    Huh? I have always been fascinated with the 19th century west. What's the
    problem with asking for input on it?

    Steve

    PS: It's not a requirement that you participate.



  20. #20
    SteveB Guest

    Default Re: 19th century cooking


    "brooklyn1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:PPRpl.2034$[email protected]..
    >
    > "bulka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Lobster in Utah?
    >>
    >> No.
    >>
    >> Sure, you can get anything flown or frozen anywhere. Probably can get
    >> "sushi" at a gas station or 7-11 in Provo, but that's not food.
    >>
    >> Look at a map, dude. How far are you from any place a crustacean
    >> could live? You want to eat anything that traveled that far on ice in
    >> a train or stagecoach?
    >>
    >> I'm sorry, but any idiot who goes into the desert looking for seafood
    >> gets no sympathy from me.

    >
    > You're the idiot... many Las Vegas eateries serve what's unquestionably
    > the widest variety of hours fresh from the seven seas seafood on the
    > planet.
    >
    > http://www.harrahs.com/casinos/rio/r...et-detail.html


    I grew up in Las Vegas. By the time I was twelve, I knew more about more
    foreign foods than most twelve year olds in the US. The buffets of old used
    to have crab, shrimp, lots of stuff they don't have today unless you pony up
    big bucks.

    Steve



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