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Thread: White wine...TCA

  1. #1
    R P Guest

    Default White wine...TCA

    I'm going to assume that most of you here are more knowledgable than I
    about wine. Because quite frankly I'm not knowledgable about it at all.

    I have two questions if you don't mind ?

    I've started liking red wines,.supposed to be good for you [to-a-point]
    & all,..& not as filling as beer. I like Merlot,Shiraz,..etc.
    I don't buy expensive wine [per-si] $10-12.00 p/bott...but I have
    developed a taste for it.

    Question one is;.....knowing that,..what white wine would you think i
    might like?

    Question two;.....what is TCA ?..I've seen it mentioned here and I'm
    just curious.

    Thanks !......Ron


  2. #2
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    On Sep 23, 4:17�pm, vn1...@webtv.net (R P) wrote:
    > � I'm going to assume that most of you here are more knowledgablethan I
    > about wine. Because quite frankly I'm not knowledgable about it at all.
    >
    > �I have two questions if you don't mind ?
    >
    > �I've started liking red wines,.supposed to be good for you [to-a-point]
    > & all,..& not as filling as beer. I like Merlot,Shiraz,..etc.
    > �I don't buy expensive wine [per-si] $10-12.00 p/bott...but I have
    > developed a taste for it.
    >
    > �Question one is;.....knowing that,..what white wine would you think i
    > might like?
    >
    > �Question two;.....what is TCA ?..I've seen it mentioned here andI'm
    > just curious.
    >
    > � � � Thanks !......Ron


    First question is tough. Everyone's tastes are different. Where are
    you? Hard to make specific suggestions, as what's available varies.
    I'd start by going to your favorite wine store, ask for recs for a
    good Sauvignon Blanc, Chardonnay, and Riesling in your range. See what
    you think, and then tell salesperson (or post here) what you liked and
    disliked about each one.

    TCA is 2,4,6-trichloroanisole. A chemical compound that taints wine
    (and sometimes other stuff). The most common source in wine is corks,
    hence TCA contamination is known as a wine being "corked." There are
    other systemic ways wine can be "corked", but the cork is the most
    common. TCA is very strong, the average person can smell it in
    concentrations of about 2-3 parts per trillion! Most common
    descriptors are wet cardboard or mildew. Even lower concentrations can
    lead to loss of aromatics in wine ("fruit scalping)>

  3. #3
    R P Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    Dale, thanks for replying. I live in Ohio. I do know that there are
    some vineyards of note in my state.

    I have tried Riesling,..too sweet for my taste. Don't get me wrong I'm
    fine with red wine,..I just thought I would try others.
    BTW; if you don't mind another question,?..what is a port ?
    Thanks again!....Ron


  4. #4
    Miles Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    R P wrote:

    > Question one is;.....knowing that,..what white wine would you think i
    > might like?


    Probably Chardonnay, Viognier, Pinot Grigio you may enjoy. There are
    dry Rieslings but I don't care for them myself.

  5. #5
    Steve Slatcher Guest

  6. #6
    Anders Trneskog Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA


    "R P" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    news:[email protected]..
    > Dale, thanks for replying. I live in Ohio. I do know that there are
    > some vineyards of note in my state.
    >
    > I have tried Riesling,..too sweet for my taste.

    There are bone dry Rieslings too, of course. It all depends on how much of
    the juice sugar is converted to alcohol during fermentation. If you buy a
    Riesling with 12-14% alcohol it will normally be very dry unless the grapes
    were extremely ripe in which case there would be some residual sugar.
    Anders



  7. #7
    Michael Pronay Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    Miles <[email protected]> wrote:

    > There are dry Rieslings but I don't care for them myself.


    Hmmm ... just opened a 2007 Reserve from Weingut Sax in Langenlois
    (Kamptal, Austria), at 13% a bone dry affair ... and I really do
    care! ;-)

    M.

  8. #8
    R P Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    So in other words a higher % alcohol means dryer?,is this true for
    white & red ?

    And I am not arguing,doubting,besmirching<g> or anything else,cause as
    I said I'm a wine dunce......!....but.....how in the world do you folks
    sense all those flavors you speak of in a taste ?
    I taste sweet,dry,.one I had maybe creamy?
    No fruits,nuts,straw,etc.?????
    Ron....


  9. #9
    Anders Trneskog Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA


    "R P" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    news:17102-48DA[email protected]..
    > So in other words a higher % alcohol means dryer?,is this true for
    > white & red ?

    Yes, generally. But it depends on the grape material and the climate. Hot
    California vineyards yields grapes packed with sugar and may make wines with
    15-16+% alcohol. At that level the yeast dies, fermentation stops and any
    remaining sugar will make the wine sweetish.
    Continental Europe is cooler, so a 12-14% wine from Germany or Austria, for
    instance, will almost always be dry.
    >
    > And I am not arguing,doubting,besmirching<g> or anything else,cause as
    > I said I'm a wine dunce......!....but.....how in the world do you folks
    > sense all those flavors you speak of in a taste ?
    > I taste sweet,dry,.one I had maybe creamy?
    > No fruits,nuts,straw,etc.?????
    > Ron....
    >

    Don't worry - I have the same problem... :-) You'll find more nuances
    after some time, but some guys (and girls) are really proficient at that
    game, at least verbally... :-)
    Anders



  10. #10
    R P Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    Thank You Anders !
    Ron


  11. #11
    Miles Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    Anders Trneskog wrote:
    > "R P" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    > news:[email protected]..
    >> So in other words a higher % alcohol means dryer?,is this true for
    >> white & red ?

    > Yes, generally.


    Most sweet wines I have tried are often the highest alcohol wines but
    I'm assuming they are fortified. Big fruit forward Zins are almost as
    high. The dry wines I drink (mostly reds) seem to range between 13-14%.
    The sweet wines I've tried are 14-16%. I do admit I don't know much
    about sweet wines as they really aren't my thing!

  12. #12
    Steve Slatcher Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:48:49 -0400, [email protected] (R P) wrote:

    > So in other words a higher % alcohol means dryer?,is this true for
    >white & red ?


    Fermentation converts sugar to alcohol. So if 2 wines are made from
    grape must with the same amount of sugar initially, the wine with the
    less alcohol means that it has more sugar remaining. It applies to
    red and white, but assumes that sugar and/or alcohol is not added
    after the fermentation of course.

    Any wine with a low ABV (say 8% or less) will have some sugar
    remaining after the fermentation, and thus will be at least a little
    sweet. That is often a good indicator for Rieslings, certainly
    cheaper German Rieslings. But some sweet wines are made with very
    high initial sugar content - these can be normal strength and still
    sweet.

    --
    Steve Slatcher
    http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

  13. #13
    Michael Pronay Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    Steve Slatcher <[email protected]> wrote:

    > But some sweet wines are made with very high initial sugar
    > content - these can be normal strength and still sweet.


    Typically Sauternes would be of this type.

    M.

  14. #14
    IanH Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:31:33 +0200, Michael Pronay <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Steve Slatcher <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> But some sweet wines are made with very high initial sugar
    >> content - these can be normal strength and still sweet.

    >
    >Typically Sauternes would be of this type.


    Especially when chaptalised. If like me you think the idea of
    chaptalising sweet wines is a nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or
    else buy Sauternes from members of Sapros.

    (To RP chaptalising is adding sugar to fermenting grape juice to
    increase the alcoholic strength of the finished product. It's all too
    common - especially in France, IMO)
    --
    All the best
    Fatty from Forges

  15. #15
    Michael Pronay Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    IanH <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>> But some sweet wines are made with very high initial sugar
    >>> content - these can be normal strength and still sweet.


    >> Typically Sauternes would be of this type.

    >
    > Especially when chaptalised.


    Of course. But the best (Yquem et al.) are not, to the best of my
    knowledge. Generic Sauternes, however, is always.

    > If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a
    > nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from
    > members of Sapros.


    Or buy any German or Austrian
    Beerenauslese/Ausbruch/Trockenbeerenauslese.

    But then we normally are not at 12/13% alc., but much less, except
    maybe for some Ruster Ausbruch wines.

    M.

  16. #16
    Anders Trneskog Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA


    "Michael Pronay" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    news:[email protected]..
    >
    >> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a
    >> nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from
    >> members of Sapros.

    >
    > Or buy any German or Austrian
    > Beerenauslese/Ausbruch/Trockenbeerenauslese.
    >

    WHAT? Chaptalising a Beerenauslese?
    Anders



  17. #17
    Michael Pronay Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    "Anders Trneskog" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a

    ************************************************** *
    >>> nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from

    ********
    >>> members of Sapros.


    >> Or buy any German or Austrian
    >> Beerenauslese/Ausbruch/Trockenbeerenauslese.


    > WHAT? Chaptalising a Beerenauslese?


    Ian and I talk about *non*-chaptalized noble sweet wines.

    M.

  18. #18
    Anders Trneskog Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA


    "Michael Pronay" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    news:[email protected]..
    > "Anders Trneskog" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>>> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a

    > ************************************************** *
    >>>> nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from

    > ********
    >>>> members of Sapros.

    >

    Yes, I misread Ian slightly :-) - "if you think the idea is nonsense then
    try Sapros Sauternes (implied: you'll find a good chaptalised sweet
    wine...)"

    One should not write too late in the night, and not after a bottle of
    Musella Valpolicella Superiore (or any other)
    Anders



  19. #19
    Michael Pronay Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    "Anders Trneskog" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>>>> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is

    >> *************************************************
    >>>>> a nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes

    >> ********
    >>>>> from members of Sapros.


    > Yes, I misread Ian slightly :-) - "if you think the idea is
    > nonsense then try Sapros Sauternes (implied: you'll find a good
    > chaptalised sweet wine...)"


    Thanks for pointing that out. Indeed, what Ian has written can be
    misunderstood. The simple reason I didn't misubnderstand him was
    the fact that I have known his point about chaptalisation (he
    abhoars it, in every wine!) for ages.

    > One should not write too late in the night, and not after a
    > bottle of Musella Valpolicella Superiore (or any other)


    Come on, right now I write after a can of Heineken (pshhht - don't
    tell anyone!)

    M.

  20. #20
    Mike Tommasi Guest

    Default Re: White wine...TCA

    Michael Pronay wrote:
    > "Anders Trneskog" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>>>>> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is
    >>> *************************************************
    >>>>>> a nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes
    >>> ********
    >>>>>> from members of Sapros.

    >
    >> Yes, I misread Ian slightly :-) - "if you think the idea is
    >> nonsense then try Sapros Sauternes (implied: you'll find a good
    >> chaptalised sweet wine...)"

    >
    > Thanks for pointing that out. Indeed, what Ian has written can be
    > misunderstood. The simple reason I didn't misubnderstand him was
    > the fact that I have known his point about chaptalisation (he
    > abhoars it, in every wine!) for ages



    Just to be clear, "or else" could mislead you into thinking that Ian
    meant Sapros = chaptalization, but wines from winemakers belonging to
    the Sapros association do NOT chaptalize, and there are only two
    Sauternes in that category. Indeed, very few Sauternes are not
    chaptalized, even most of the really high end ones are sugared.


    --
    Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
    email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

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