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Thread: TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

  1. #1
    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Default TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

    I had only one bottle of Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese
    1976, Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter, Eltville. There were no fill or
    cork issues.

    The color is bright gold. The bouquet is extremely intense with only
    moderate old Riesling character. The bouquet and taste remind me of
    very ripe white peaches with some mixed floral character with mixed
    spices reminding me of those in pickled peaches, but without any
    vinegar character. There also was honey. The wine was rather sweet. In
    most other years, I would bet this wine was an auslese if served
    blind.

    In fact there was so much auslese and above in 1976 that some are
    rumored to have sold some of their wine entitled to be called auslese
    as spatlese just so they would have some spatlese to sell. So far as I
    can determine, this would be quite legal in 1976. There are certain
    minimum sugar contents, etc that must be met at the various quality
    levels, but there seems to be no restriction in labeling a wine
    entitled to be an auslese as a spatlese, since it exceeds the minimum
    sugar, etc allowed for a spatlese. Of course I have no way to know if
    that was the case for this wine.

  2. #2
    Anders Tørneskog Guest

    Default Re: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter


    "cwdjrxyz" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    news:[email protected]..
    >
    > In fact there was so much auslese and above in 1976 that some are
    > rumored to have sold some of their wine entitled to be called auslese
    > as spatlese just so they would have some spatlese to sell. So far as I
    > can determine, this would be quite legal in 1976.


    The above is correct to my knowledge too. The current habit of downclassing
    (labeling lower than actual amount of sugar in the juice) was not very
    widespread then - but nor was it illegal, and I seem to recall vintners
    telling they did so that year.

    Another reason for such downclassing is to offer a wine well positioned to
    be considered as 'better' than others of same labeling...

    Anders



  3. #3
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

    Nice notes.
    Is there one that more state winery in Rheingau- Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter doesn't look familiar, though I know I have had wines from state winery?
    As Anders states, I think now and then one only has to meet the minimums, no upper
    oechsle limit./

  4. #4
    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Default Re: TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

    On Feb 19, 12:48*pm, DaleW <Dwmi...@aol.com> wrote:
    > Nice notes.
    > Is there one that more state winery in Rheingau- Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter doesn't look familiar, though I know I have had wines from state winery?


    The English translation of "Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter, Eltville"
    means that the wine is produced by the State Wine Domain which is
    located in Eltville. The question then becomes if there are other
    State Domains in the Rheingau than the one at Eltville. There are
    several State Wine Domains in Germany. However none of my State Domain
    wines from the Rheingau come from other than the State Domain at
    Eltville. These include 1976 Erbacher Markobrunn Spatlese, 1976
    Steinberger Spatlese, and 1949 Rauenthaler Baiken TBA. Many of the
    most famous vineyards were of former church or royal ownership. Also
    Germany, until fairly recent times, had powerful, Royal states and
    little national rule. Thus it would not surprise me if some wine
    region could have more than one state domain in it.


  5. #5
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Anders_T=F8rneskog?= Guest

    Default Re: TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter


    "cwdjrxyz" <[email protected]> skrev i melding news:[email protected]...
    On Feb 19, 12:48 pm, DaleW <Dwmi...@aol.com> wrote:
    > Nice notes.
    > Is there one that more state winery in Rheingau- Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter doesn't look familiar, though I know I have had wines from state winery?


    -The English translation of "Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter, Eltville"
    -means that the wine is produced by the State Wine Domain which is
    -located in Eltville. The question then becomes if there are other
    -State Domains in the Rheingau than the one at Eltville.

    It is a bit more complicated... Firstly "Verwaltung" means "Management" and Staatsweingüter is a plural...
    From 1918 to 1998 this above organization (named so in 1939), located in Eltville, was responsible for the state wineries (Domäneweingüter) at Assmannshausen, Hattenheim-Erbach, Hochheim, Rüdesheim-Eibingen, Steinberg and the state bottlers at Kloster Eberbach, Hochheim, Rüdesheim and Wiesbaden. By 1978 the new cellars at Eltville replaced several of the other bottling operations. (Domänekellereien)

    So by 1998 this was renamed Hessische Staatsweingüter GmbH Kloster Eberbach with a goal of becoming a commercially viable operation, now comprising the state wineries of Assmannshausen, Rüdesheim, Steinberg-Hattenheim, Rauenthal (Rauenthal und Wiesbadener Neroberg), Hochheim, Bensheim und Kloster Eberbach. The Kloster Eberbach by itself was made a foundation with a goal of maintaining the historical buildings and using them for public benefit as well as for the state wineries.

    And yes, there are others in other states -
    Fürstliches Castell'sches Domänenamt in Franconia
    Gut Hermannsberg (used to be Staatliche Weinbaudomäne Niederhausen-Schloßböckelheim) in Nahe
    Sächsisches Staatsweingut Schloss Wackerbarth in Saxonia
    Staatlicher Hofkeller Würzburg in Franconia
    Staatliche Weinbaudomäne Oppenheim in Rhineland-Palatinate
    Staatliche Weinbaudomäne Trier in Mosel
    Staatsweingut Bad Kreuznach in Nahe
    Staatsweingut Freiburg in Baden
    Staatsweingut Meersburg in Bodensee
    Staatsweingut Mosel in Bernkastel
    Staatsweingut mit Johannitergut Neustadt-Mußbach a.d. Weinstraße in Rhineland-Palatinate Staatsweingut Weinsberg in Baden
    Weinbaudomäne Schloss Johannisberg in Rheingau


    The Staatsweingut Mosel in Bernkastel puzzles me, I've been in Bernkastel several times and never heard of it... :-) Go to do something about that!

    Anders

  6. #6
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Anders_T=F8rneskog?= Guest

    Default Re: TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

    Ouch....!

    Oppenheim is Rhine-Hesse, of course

    :-)
    Anders

  7. #7
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

    thanks Anders. "Hessische Staatsweingüter Kloster Eberbach" is the name Iwas more familiar wine.
    While state-run winery doesn't sound appealing to those of us who have a bias towards small artisanal producers, I've had plenty of delicious wines from Hessische Staatsweingüter Kloster Eberbach, Staatliche WeinbaudomäneTrier, ans Staatlicher Hofkeller Würzburg

  8. #8
    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Default Re: TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

    On Feb 20, 4:51*pm, DaleW <Dwmi...@aol.com> wrote:
    > thanks Anders. "Hessische Staatsweingüter Kloster Eberbach" is the nameI was more familiar wine.
    > While state-run winery doesn't sound appealing to those of us who have a bias towards small artisanal producers, I've had plenty of delicious wines from Hessische Staatsweingüter Kloster Eberbach, Staatliche Weinbaudomäne Trier, ans Staatlicher Hofkeller Würzburg


    All of my German wines are pre-1998, and German wine label
    requirements get modified from time to time. For example I have some
    1973er Ockfener Bockstein RieslingTrockenbeerenauslese Eiswein,
    Vervaltung der Staatlichen Weinbaudomanen Trier, 3 561 107 6 75. The
    75 at the end of the number indicates that this wine took quite a
    while to be ready to be bottled in 1975. Today the state domain
    wording remains the same. However TBA would be forbidden and only
    eiswein could be on the label. An eiswein can now be of only BA or TBA
    level, but you can not specify which for a specific wine. Ockfener
    Bockstein is owned by several.

    However, especially in the Rheingau, some large famous vineyards are
    entirely owned by the state domain. In this case having a specific
    state domain listed on the label adds nothing useful If you want to
    buy wine from the named vineyard. For large vineyards, state or
    private, there often is considerable difference in quality for wines
    produced from grapes in different parts of the vineyard. I would only
    buy auslese or above from some of these large vineyards.

    For example, Schloss Johannisberg, has two sets of labels and several
    capsule color codes to identify the quality of their wines. The lower
    quality label shows the Coat of Arms. The higher quality label shows
    the Schloss. This system predates modern German wine laws and they can
    do it because they do not mention quality levels other than say a
    specific such as auslese. The 1976 Rosalack Auslese has a rose colored
    capsule and the lower quality coat-of-arms label. It s a very good
    auslese, but far from their best wine in 1976. An importer obtained 3
    bottles of a much higher quality wine for me directly from Germany.
    This 1976 BA has the Schloss label and a gold capsule with light blue-
    gray rings at the top and bottom of the capsule.

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