Thread: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

On Nov 20, 11:30*pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
> Over the last few nights, we've opened a couple of interesting bottles
> that I've neglected to write up. *Two nights ago, with a dinner of roast
> chicken, I opened:
>
> 2008 Clos Roche Blanche "Cuvée Pif"
> nose: red fruits, leafy
> palate: tight, young, moderate tannins, red fruit
>
> Very tight right now, this shows great promise for the next few years.
> Alas, sealed with a plastic cork, so I won't be aging it too long.
>
> Last night, with a meal of leftover risotto Milanese and chicken, Jean
> opened a recent purchase:
>
> 2007 Stadlman Rotgipfler "Tagelsteiner" (Thermenregion)
> nose: powerful, tropical fruit, pineapple (Jean gets overwhelming petrol
> *-- not me!)
> palate: thick, viscous, almost oily, very fruity, modest acidity
>
> My first ever Rotgipfler, it struck me as a cross between a New World
> Pinot Gris and Viognier. *Quite heavy feeling, it had just enough
> acidity to be cleansing. *I can see why this is usually blended with
> Zierfandler, though.
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

thanks, the Pif is in assortment I'm carrying to an event tonight. Too
scared to age plastic corks!

In article <he7qau$ulk$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Over the last few nights, we've opened a couple of interesting bottles
> that I've neglected to write up. Two nights ago, with a dinner of roast
> chicken, I opened:
>
> 2008 Clos Roche Blanche "Cuvée Pif"
> nose: red fruits, leafy
> palate: tight, young, moderate tannins, red fruit
>
> Very tight right now, this shows great promise for the next few years.
> Alas, sealed with a plastic cork, so I won't be aging it too long.
>
> Last night, with a meal of leftover risotto Milanese and chicken, Jean
> opened a recent purchase:
>
> 2007 Stadlman Rotgipfler "Tagelsteiner" (Thermenregion)
> nose: powerful, tropical fruit, pineapple (Jean gets overwhelming petrol
> -- not me!)
> palate: thick, viscous, almost oily, very fruity, modest acidity
>
> My first ever Rotgipfler, it struck me as a cross between a New World
> Pinot Gris and Viognier. Quite heavy feeling, it had just enough
> acidity to be cleansing. I can see why this is usually blended with
> Zierfandler, though.
>
> Mark Lipton

I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
assume no aging with them either.

Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

>
> I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
> assume no aging with them either.

Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

In article <he9oi2$7lt$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
>
> >
> > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
> > assume no aging with them either.
>
> Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
> the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
> greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
> reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.
>
> Mark Lipton

Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
there be any aging?

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:57:26 -0500, Lawrence Leichtman
<[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <he9oi2$7lt$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
> > > assume no aging with them either.
> >
> > Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
> > the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
> > greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
> > reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.
> >
> > Mark Lipton
>
> Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
> there be any aging?



No, Stelvin closures are just the common metal screwcaps.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

In article <[email protected]>,
Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:57:26 -0500, Lawrence Leichtman
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In article <he9oi2$7lt$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
> > > > assume no aging with them either.
> > >
> > > Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
> > > the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
> > > greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
> > > reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.
> > >
> > > Mark Lipton
> >
> > Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
> > there be any aging?
>
>
>
> No, Stelvin closures are just the common metal screwcaps.

Then what are the glass closures called? I have run into these several
times now.

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:57:20 -0500, Lawrence Leichtman
<[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:57:26 -0500, Lawrence Leichtman
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <he9oi2$7lt$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
> > > > > assume no aging with them either.
> > > >
> > > > Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
> > > > the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
> > > > greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
> > > > reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.
> > > >
> > > > Mark Lipton
> > >
> > > Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
> > > there be any aging?
> >
> >
> >
> > No, Stelvin closures are just the common metal screwcaps.
>
> Then what are the glass closures called? I have run into these several
> times now.


Sorry, I don't know. I can't remember ever seeing glass closures.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

"Ken Blake" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
news:[email protected]..
>
> Sorry, I don't know. I can't remember ever seeing glass closures.
>
Glass stoppers, see this:
http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html

Anders

On Nov 22, 1:57�pm, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
> In article <he9oi2$7l...@aioe.org>, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude>
> wrote:
>
> > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
>
> > > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
> > > assume no aging with them either.
>
> > Au contraire, Larry. �If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. �All
> > the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
> > greater consistency bottle to bottle. �Apart from some reports of
> > reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.
>
> > Mark Lipton
>
> Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
> there be any aging?

That;s why they refer to wine aged under Stelvin as "Peter Pan"
wines. They never get old...

Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

> Then what are the glass closures called? I have run into these several
> times now.

The most common brand of glass stopper is the Vino-Lok, made by Alcoa
IIRC. I mostly see it on lower-end German Rieslings, but I'm sure that
others use it, too. No idea about the aging curve of wines sealed that
way, but I'd guess that its oxygen permeability is even lower than that
of screwcaps. They resemble fire-polished ground glass joints with an
O-ring seal, and we use similar seals in the lab when we want something
close to a hermetic seal.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

In article <hee975$f98$[email protected]>,
Mark Lipton <[email protected]> wrote:

> Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
>
> > Then what are the glass closures called? I have run into these several
> > times now.
>
> The most common brand of glass stopper is the Vino-Lok, made by Alcoa
> IIRC. I mostly see it on lower-end German Rieslings, but I'm sure that
> others use it, too. No idea about the aging curve of wines sealed that
> way, but I'd guess that its oxygen permeability is even lower than that
> of screwcaps. They resemble fire-polished ground glass joints with an
> O-ring seal, and we use similar seals in the lab when we want something
> close to a hermetic seal.
>
> Mark Lipton

Yes, this is what I found on two bottles. I had never seen it before.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:25:28 +0100, "Anders Tørneskog"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Ken Blake" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
> news:[email protected]..
> >
> > Sorry, I don't know. I can't remember ever seeing glass closures.
> >
> Glass stoppers, see this:
> http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html


Thanks. Interesting. But as I said, I've never seen one like that.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

"Mark Lipton" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
news:hee975$f98$[email protected]..
> ... I mostly see it on lower-end German Rieslings, but I'm sure that
> others use it, too.
Lower end? Not me :-) I've bought wine from Kees-Kieren with these
stoppers, namely their Graacher Domprobst Trocken Spätlese 2006 and 2007.
Same from Schloss Vollrads, and from Brauneberger Hof, to name a few.

But, I'll admit that these are wines for short term storage - most Mosel
Trocken should be drunk within 2-4 years even when they are from class
estates.

And quite a number use Stelvin nowadays. It seems to me that the ranking is
1. Natural cork for long term storage and expensiver wines
2. Glass stoppers for good wine and short term storage
3. Stelvin for cheaper wines but also up to quite good qualities and perhaps
for longer storage
4. Various plastic corks - everyday wine
5. Composite corks - cheap everyday wine
imho, of course.
Anders

Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Glass stoppers, see this:
>> http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html

> Thanks. Interesting. But as I said, I've never seen one like
> that.

Sorry for chiming in: Do you mean that you have seen another type
of glass stopper, just not this one, or no glass stopper at all?

To the best of my knowledge, this type (Vino-Lok) is the only one,
and it's used in Austria and Germany since around 2003, but I'd
estimate the penetration rate well below 5% for them. (Screw-caps
in Austria, otoh, have a market share of over 70% of the whole
production.)

M.

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:27:31 +0100, Michael Pronay <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Glass stoppers, see this:
> >> http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html
>
> > Thanks. Interesting. But as I said, I've never seen one like
> > that.
>
> Sorry for chiming in: Do you mean that you have seen another type
> of glass stopper, just not this one, or no glass stopper at all?


Sorry to have confused you. I've seen no glass stoppers at all.


> To the best of my knowledge, this type (Vino-Lok) is the only one,
> and it's used in Austria and Germany since around 2003, but I'd
> estimate the penetration rate well below 5% for them. (Screw-caps
> in Austria, otoh, have a market share of over 70% of the whole
> production.)
>
> M.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

In article <[email protected]>,
Michael Pronay <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Glass stoppers, see this:
> >> http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html
>
> > Thanks. Interesting. But as I said, I've never seen one like
> > that.
>
> Sorry for chiming in: Do you mean that you have seen another type
> of glass stopper, just not this one, or no glass stopper at all?
>
> To the best of my knowledge, this type (Vino-Lok) is the only one,
> and it's used in Austria and Germany since around 2003, but I'd
> estimate the penetration rate well below 5% for them. (Screw-caps
> in Austria, otoh, have a market share of over 70% of the whole
> production.)
>
> M.

Yes, this was on a Cote du Rhone and is a glass stopper.