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Thread: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

  1. #1
    Mark Lipton Guest

    Default [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    Over the last few nights, we've opened a couple of interesting bottles
    that I've neglected to write up. Two nights ago, with a dinner of roast
    chicken, I opened:

    2008 Clos Roche Blanche "Cuvée Pif"
    nose: red fruits, leafy
    palate: tight, young, moderate tannins, red fruit

    Very tight right now, this shows great promise for the next few years.
    Alas, sealed with a plastic cork, so I won't be aging it too long.

    Last night, with a meal of leftover risotto Milanese and chicken, Jean
    opened a recent purchase:

    2007 Stadlman Rotgipfler "Tagelsteiner" (Thermenregion)
    nose: powerful, tropical fruit, pineapple (Jean gets overwhelming petrol
    -- not me!)
    palate: thick, viscous, almost oily, very fruity, modest acidity

    My first ever Rotgipfler, it struck me as a cross between a New World
    Pinot Gris and Viognier. Quite heavy feeling, it had just enough
    acidity to be cleansing. I can see why this is usually blended with
    Zierfandler, though.

    Mark Lipton
    --
    alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

  2. #2
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    On Nov 20, 11:30*pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
    > Over the last few nights, we've opened a couple of interesting bottles
    > that I've neglected to write up. *Two nights ago, with a dinner of roast
    > chicken, I opened:
    >
    > 2008 Clos Roche Blanche "Cuvée Pif"
    > nose: red fruits, leafy
    > palate: tight, young, moderate tannins, red fruit
    >
    > Very tight right now, this shows great promise for the next few years.
    > Alas, sealed with a plastic cork, so I won't be aging it too long.
    >
    > Last night, with a meal of leftover risotto Milanese and chicken, Jean
    > opened a recent purchase:
    >
    > 2007 Stadlman Rotgipfler "Tagelsteiner" (Thermenregion)
    > nose: powerful, tropical fruit, pineapple (Jean gets overwhelming petrol
    > *-- not me!)
    > palate: thick, viscous, almost oily, very fruity, modest acidity
    >
    > My first ever Rotgipfler, it struck me as a cross between a New World
    > Pinot Gris and Viognier. *Quite heavy feeling, it had just enough
    > acidity to be cleansing. *I can see why this is usually blended with
    > Zierfandler, though.
    >
    > Mark Lipton
    > --
    > alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


    thanks, the Pif is in assortment I'm carrying to an event tonight. Too
    scared to age plastic corks!

  3. #3
    Lawrence Leichtman Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    In article <he7qau$ulk$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Over the last few nights, we've opened a couple of interesting bottles
    > that I've neglected to write up. Two nights ago, with a dinner of roast
    > chicken, I opened:
    >
    > 2008 Clos Roche Blanche "Cuvée Pif"
    > nose: red fruits, leafy
    > palate: tight, young, moderate tannins, red fruit
    >
    > Very tight right now, this shows great promise for the next few years.
    > Alas, sealed with a plastic cork, so I won't be aging it too long.
    >
    > Last night, with a meal of leftover risotto Milanese and chicken, Jean
    > opened a recent purchase:
    >
    > 2007 Stadlman Rotgipfler "Tagelsteiner" (Thermenregion)
    > nose: powerful, tropical fruit, pineapple (Jean gets overwhelming petrol
    > -- not me!)
    > palate: thick, viscous, almost oily, very fruity, modest acidity
    >
    > My first ever Rotgipfler, it struck me as a cross between a New World
    > Pinot Gris and Viognier. Quite heavy feeling, it had just enough
    > acidity to be cleansing. I can see why this is usually blended with
    > Zierfandler, though.
    >
    > Mark Lipton


    I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
    assume no aging with them either.

  4. #4
    Mark Lipton Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

    >
    > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
    > assume no aging with them either.


    Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
    the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
    greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
    reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.

    Mark Lipton


    --
    alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

  5. #5
    Lawrence Leichtman Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    In article <he9oi2$7lt$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
    > > assume no aging with them either.

    >
    > Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
    > the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
    > greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
    > reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.
    >
    > Mark Lipton


    Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
    there be any aging?

  6. #6
    Ken Blake Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:57:26 -0500, Lawrence Leichtman
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <he9oi2$7lt$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
    > > > assume no aging with them either.

    > >
    > > Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
    > > the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
    > > greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
    > > reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.
    > >
    > > Mark Lipton

    >
    > Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
    > there be any aging?




    No, Stelvin closures are just the common metal screwcaps.

    --
    Ken Blake
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup

  7. #7
    Lawrence Leichtman Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:57:26 -0500, Lawrence Leichtman
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > In article <he9oi2$7lt$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
    > > > > assume no aging with them either.
    > > >
    > > > Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
    > > > the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
    > > > greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
    > > > reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.
    > > >
    > > > Mark Lipton

    > >
    > > Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
    > > there be any aging?

    >
    >
    >
    > No, Stelvin closures are just the common metal screwcaps.


    Then what are the glass closures called? I have run into these several
    times now.

  8. #8
    Ken Blake Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:57:20 -0500, Lawrence Leichtman
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:57:26 -0500, Lawrence Leichtman
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > In article <he9oi2$7lt$[email protected]>, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
    > > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
    > > > > > assume no aging with them either.
    > > > >
    > > > > Au contraire, Larry. If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. All
    > > > > the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
    > > > > greater consistency bottle to bottle. Apart from some reports of
    > > > > reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.
    > > > >
    > > > > Mark Lipton
    > > >
    > > > Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
    > > > there be any aging?

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > No, Stelvin closures are just the common metal screwcaps.

    >
    > Then what are the glass closures called? I have run into these several
    > times now.



    Sorry, I don't know. I can't remember ever seeing glass closures.

    --
    Ken Blake
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup

  9. #9
    Anders Tørneskog Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)


    "Ken Blake" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    news:[email protected]..
    >
    > Sorry, I don't know. I can't remember ever seeing glass closures.
    >

    Glass stoppers, see this:
    http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html

    Anders



  10. #10
    Bi!! Guest

    Default Re: Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    On Nov 22, 1:57�pm, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
    > In article <he9oi2$7l...@aioe.org>, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

    >
    > > > I have recently opened several Cotes du Rhones with Stelvin tops. I
    > > > assume no aging with them either.

    >
    > > Au contraire, Larry. �If anything, wines age slower under screwcap. �All
    > > the studies I've seen have shown less oxygen ingress than cork with far
    > > greater consistency bottle to bottle. �Apart from some reports of
    > > reduction under screwcap, there are no concerns about aging them.

    >
    > > Mark Lipton

    >
    > Stelvins are glass aren't they. If their is no oxygen exchange will
    > there be any aging?


    That;s why they refer to wine aged under Stelvin as "Peter Pan"
    wines. They never get old...

  11. #11
    Mark Lipton Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

    > Then what are the glass closures called? I have run into these several
    > times now.


    The most common brand of glass stopper is the Vino-Lok, made by Alcoa
    IIRC. I mostly see it on lower-end German Rieslings, but I'm sure that
    others use it, too. No idea about the aging curve of wines sealed that
    way, but I'd guess that its oxygen permeability is even lower than that
    of screwcaps. They resemble fire-polished ground glass joints with an
    O-ring seal, and we use similar seals in the lab when we want something
    close to a hermetic seal.

    Mark Lipton

    --
    alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

  12. #12
    Lawrence Leichtman Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    In article <hee975$f98$[email protected]>,
    Mark Lipton <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
    >
    > > Then what are the glass closures called? I have run into these several
    > > times now.

    >
    > The most common brand of glass stopper is the Vino-Lok, made by Alcoa
    > IIRC. I mostly see it on lower-end German Rieslings, but I'm sure that
    > others use it, too. No idea about the aging curve of wines sealed that
    > way, but I'd guess that its oxygen permeability is even lower than that
    > of screwcaps. They resemble fire-polished ground glass joints with an
    > O-ring seal, and we use similar seals in the lab when we want something
    > close to a hermetic seal.
    >
    > Mark Lipton


    Yes, this is what I found on two bottles. I had never seen it before.

  13. #13
    Ken Blake Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:25:28 +0100, "Anders Tørneskog"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > "Ken Blake" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    > news:[email protected]..
    > >
    > > Sorry, I don't know. I can't remember ever seeing glass closures.
    > >

    > Glass stoppers, see this:
    > http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html



    Thanks. Interesting. But as I said, I've never seen one like that.

    --
    Ken Blake
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup

  14. #14
    Anders Tørneskog Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)


    "Mark Lipton" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    news:hee975$f98$[email protected]..
    > ... I mostly see it on lower-end German Rieslings, but I'm sure that
    > others use it, too.

    Lower end? Not me :-) I've bought wine from Kees-Kieren with these
    stoppers, namely their Graacher Domprobst Trocken Spätlese 2006 and 2007.
    Same from Schloss Vollrads, and from Brauneberger Hof, to name a few.

    But, I'll admit that these are wines for short term storage - most Mosel
    Trocken should be drunk within 2-4 years even when they are from class
    estates.

    And quite a number use Stelvin nowadays. It seems to me that the ranking is
    1. Natural cork for long term storage and expensiver wines
    2. Glass stoppers for good wine and short term storage
    3. Stelvin for cheaper wines but also up to quite good qualities and perhaps
    for longer storage
    4. Various plastic corks - everyday wine
    5. Composite corks - cheap everyday wine
    imho, of course.
    Anders



  15. #15
    Michael Pronay Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Glass stoppers, see this:
    >> http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html


    > Thanks. Interesting. But as I said, I've never seen one like
    > that.


    Sorry for chiming in: Do you mean that you have seen another type
    of glass stopper, just not this one, or no glass stopper at all?

    To the best of my knowledge, this type (Vino-Lok) is the only one,
    and it's used in Austria and Germany since around 2003, but I'd
    estimate the penetration rate well below 5% for them. (Screw-caps
    in Austria, otoh, have a market share of over 70% of the whole
    production.)

    M.

  16. #16
    Ken Blake Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:27:31 +0100, Michael Pronay <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> Glass stoppers, see this:
    > >> http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html

    >
    > > Thanks. Interesting. But as I said, I've never seen one like
    > > that.

    >
    > Sorry for chiming in: Do you mean that you have seen another type
    > of glass stopper, just not this one, or no glass stopper at all?



    Sorry to have confused you. I've seen no glass stoppers at all.


    > To the best of my knowledge, this type (Vino-Lok) is the only one,
    > and it's used in Austria and Germany since around 2003, but I'd
    > estimate the penetration rate well below 5% for them. (Screw-caps
    > in Austria, otoh, have a market share of over 70% of the whole
    > production.)
    >
    > M.


    --
    Ken Blake
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup

  17. #17
    Lawrence Leichtman Guest

    Default Re: [TN] Backlog notes (CRB Pif & Rotgipfler)

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Michael Pronay <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Ken Blake <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> Glass stoppers, see this:
    > >> http://www2.dupont.com/Elvax/en_US/u...esealring.html

    >
    > > Thanks. Interesting. But as I said, I've never seen one like
    > > that.

    >
    > Sorry for chiming in: Do you mean that you have seen another type
    > of glass stopper, just not this one, or no glass stopper at all?
    >
    > To the best of my knowledge, this type (Vino-Lok) is the only one,
    > and it's used in Austria and Germany since around 2003, but I'd
    > estimate the penetration rate well below 5% for them. (Screw-caps
    > in Austria, otoh, have a market share of over 70% of the whole
    > production.)
    >
    > M.


    Yes, this was on a Cote du Rhone and is a glass stopper.

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