If most wine was meant to be drunk while eating...

....Then doesn't that follow that most wines were probably developed
to go well with local specialty dishes/ingredients?

But in wine competitions, musn't a wine be able to stand alone?

Doesn't that present a contradiction?

On Nov 10, 4:59�pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...Then doesn't that follow that �most wines were probably developed
> to go well with local specialty dishes/ingredients?
>
> But in wine competitions, musn't a wine be able to stand alone?
>
> Doesn't that present a contradiction?

Just my opinion. No. I'm not sure that when wines were "developed"
that they were "developed to go well with local specialty dishes/
ingredients" since they grew what would grow or what they had
available both in grapes and in foods. They also had a fairly limited
amount of "science" to manipulate the wine(s). What I've read
suggests that wines of today vary significantly from wines of earlier
times. My guess is that reciepes were modified to make them accompany
the wines not the other way around. Our sense of taste, flavor and
culture may have an affect on how we percieve matches of food and
wine. While insect larvae may be quite tasty to some cultures, it
seems unappealing to me but I haven't had centuries to aquire a taste
for them. Lastly, I'm not sure that artisinal winemaking and
competitive winemaking have much in common. Like home made BBQ or
Chili and competition grade....two different cusines. While I enjoy
the occasional chili competition or BBQ winner, they are too over the
top for everyday eating for me.....much like wine competition winners.

Bi!! wrote:
> On Nov 10, 4:59�pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...Then doesn't that follow that �most wines were probably developed
>> to go well with local specialty dishes/ingredients?
>>
>> But in wine competitions, musn't a wine be able to stand alone?
>>
>> Doesn't that present a contradiction?
>
> Just my opinion. No. I'm not sure that when wines were "developed"
> that they were "developed to go well with local specialty dishes/
> ingredients" since they grew what would grow or what they had
> available both in grapes and in foods.

Indeed. That would be the case for many wines.

It should also be noted that better wines were developed/adjusted for
their export markets - local economies alone could not support expensive
wines. Bordeaux was bought largely by Brits, Loire wines IIRC went to
Northern mainland Europe. Alsace exported wines to the rest of the
country - whichever country that was - and adjusted their style
depending on whether it was France or Germany.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher wrote:
> Bi!! wrote:
>> On Nov 10, 4:59�pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> ...Then doesn't that follow that �most wines were probably developed
>>> to go well with local specialty dishes/ingredients?
>>>
>>> But in wine competitions, musn't a wine be able to stand alone?
>>>
>>> Doesn't that present a contradiction?
>>
>> Just my opinion. No. I'm not sure that when wines were "developed"
>> that they were "developed to go well with local specialty dishes/
>> ingredients" since they grew what would grow or what they had
>> available both in grapes and in foods.
>
> Indeed. That would be the case for many wines.
>
> It should also be noted that better wines were developed/adjusted for
> their export markets - local economies alone could not support expensive
> wines. Bordeaux was bought largely by Brits, Loire wines IIRC went to
> Northern mainland Europe. Alsace exported wines to the rest of the
> country - whichever country that was - and adjusted their style
> depending on whether it was France or Germany.

But I don't think all that really addresses the original question.

I think a lot of wines today are better with food, and I prefer to drink
them with food, so yes, there is a contradiction.

However, I observe tht many people DO drink wine without food, and I
suspect that was always the case to an extent.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On Nov 10, 2:25*pm, "Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 4:59 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ...Then doesn't that follow that most wines were probably developed
> > to go well with local specialty dishes/ingredients?
>
> > But in wine competitions, musn't a wine be able to stand alone?
>
> > Doesn't that present a contradiction?
>
> Just my opinion. *No. *I'm not sure that when wines were "developed"
> that they were "developed to go well with local specialty dishes/
> ingredients" since they grew what would grow or what they had
> available both in grapes and in foods. *They also had a fairly limited
> amount of "science" to manipulate the wine(s). *What I've read
> suggests that wines of today vary significantly from wines of earlier
> times. *My guess is that reciepes were modified to make them accompany
> the wines not the other way around. *Our sense of taste, flavor and
> culture may have an affect on how we percieve matches of food and
> wine. *While insect larvae may be quite tasty to some cultures, it
> seems unappealing to me but I haven't had centuries to aquire a taste
> for them. *Lastly, I'm not sure that artisinal winemaking and
> competitive winemaking have much in common. *Like home made BBQ or
> Chili and competition grade....two different cusines. *While I enjoy
> the occasional chili competition or BBQ winner, they are too over the
> top for everyday eating for me.....much like wine competition winners.

WONDERFUL!! No one could have said it better!

--Bob

On Nov 11, 12:10*am, Steve Slatcher <steve.slatc...@pobox.com> wrote:
> Steve Slatcher wrote:
> > Bi!! wrote:
> >> On Nov 10, 4:59 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> ...Then doesn't that follow that most wines were probably developed
> >>> to go well with local specialty dishes/ingredients?
>
> >>> But in wine competitions, musn't a wine be able to stand alone?
>
> >>> Doesn't that present a contradiction?
>
> >> Just my opinion. *No. *I'm not sure that when wines were "developed"
> >> that they were "developed to go well with local specialty dishes/
> >> ingredients" since they grew what would grow or what they had
> >> available both in grapes and in foods. *
>
> > Indeed. That would be the case for many wines.
>
> > It should also be noted that better wines were developed/adjusted for
> > their export markets - local economies alone could not support expensive
> > wines. *Bordeaux was bought largely by Brits, Loire wines IIRC went to
> > Northern mainland Europe. *Alsace exported wines to the rest of the
> > country - whichever country that was - and adjusted their style
> > depending on whether it was France or Germany.
>
> But I don't think all that really addresses the original question.
>
> I think a lot of wines today are better with food, and I prefer to drink
> them with food, so yes, there is a contradiction.
>
> However, I observe tht many people DO drink wine without food, and I
> suspect that was always the case to an extent.
>
> --
> Steve Slatcherhttp://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

I have always felt that food/wine pairings were contrived. There are
some obvious affinities, like fruit acid vs.fish oil, finesse vs.
power, but nobody in Europe was concerned about this until the turn of
the 19th century. Germans drank riesling with everything, and Brits
drank claret with everything. Having attended many banquets in
Europe, the consensus seems to be whether the food went with the wine,
and not the other way around.

Just saying.

--Bob

On Nov 10, 11:59*am, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...Then doesn't that follow that *most wines were probably developed
> to go well with local specialty dishes/ingredients?
>
> But in wine competitions, musn't a wine be able to stand alone?
>
> Doesn't that present a contradiction?

Thanks to all for your quick and informative replies.

Do French wines stand alone better than Italian?

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:59:52 -0800 (PST), aesthete8 <artsy6@gmail.com>
wrote:

>...Then doesn't that follow that most wines were probably developed to go well with local specialty dishes/ingredients?

Correct - in Europe.

>But in wine competitions, musn't a wine be able to stand alone?

Yes, which is why many Orstrilian and Californian wines do well in
tastings.

>Doesn't that present a contradiction?

Not if one is aware of it and tastes for oneself. That said, a really
good wine writer (hi, Michael) knows enough about matching food and
wine not to be fooled by superficial attractiveness.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

"IanH" <nothanks@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1d03g5hiifrh9fqkjqs9rqcgumm3fi5dpb@4ax.com...
>
> Not if one is aware of it and tastes for oneself. That said, a really
> good wine writer (hi, Michael) knows enough about matching food and
> wine not to be fooled by superficial attractiveness.


Or unattractiveness.

As part of a local wine course last year, I provided a set of foods to go
with a range of wines.

One of the most interesting was a Chianti Classico - tasted without food it
was acidic and tannic, ok in a Chianti sort of way but nothing to write home
about. However with the chicken in tomato and red pepper casserole from a
Tuscan recipe, both the wine and food were elevated to a different level.
There was a 100% "Gosh!" around the room as we tasted.

I think it a real pity that the internationalization of the wine market is
resulting in the loss of regional differences - perfectly understandable
from the producers' point of view as they want access to the wider markets,
but a pity none the less.

pk

"IanH" <nothanks@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
news:1d03g5hiifrh9fqkjqs9rqcgumm3fi5dpb@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:59:52 -0800 (PST), aesthete8 <artsy6@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Yes, which is why many Orstrilian and Californian wines do well in
> tastings.
>
Hey, where is Orstrilia? Is that a Frenglish name?

Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" <sredna.goksenrot@i2c.ten> wrote in message
news:4b01a583$0$2101$c83e3ef6@anchorman-read.tele2.net...
>
> "IanH" <nothanks@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
> news:1d03g5hiifrh9fqkjqs9rqcgumm3fi5dpb@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:59:52 -0800 (PST), aesthete8 <artsy6@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Yes, which is why many Orstrilian and Californian wines do well in
>> tastings.
>>
> Hey, where is Orstrilia? Is that a Frenglish name?
>
> Anders
>

About 2,000km from Nu Zilind

st.helier

p.s. Inhabitants of Orstralia speak Strine!

"st.helier" <alphabetanz@NOSPAMhotmail.com> skrev i melding
news:hdtg7g$ki3$1@aioe.org...
>
>
> About 2,000km from Nu Zilind
>
> st.helier
>
Oh, I see :-)
But, wouldn't Ozstrilia be a more correct spelling?

;-) Anders

On Nov 16, 6:49*am, IanH <notha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:59:52 -0800 (PST), aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >...Then doesn't that follow that *most wines were probably developed to go well with local specialty dishes/ingredients?
>
> Correct - in Europe.
>
> >But in wine competitions, musn't a wine be able to stand alone?
>
> Yes, which is why many Orstrilian and Californian wines do well in
> tastings.
>
> >Doesn't that present a contradiction?
>
> Not if one is aware of it and tastes for oneself. That said, a really
> good wine writer (hi, Michael) knows enough about matching food and
> wine not to be fooled by superficial attractiveness.

The following article says:

- ...They were really wines that were made to get points, not to be
drunk with food. They are show wines. Just like show cars. They’re not
meant to ride the road, but were made to be showcased at a
competition.

http://www.midweek.com/content/colum...olving_palate/