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Thread: Ice wines in Canada

  1. #1
    Ian Hoare Guest

    Default Ice wines in Canada

    Hi

    Can anyone help me please. I was having a discussion about Apex 2004
    Gewurztraminer Ice wine (yes I do realize that the Yakima valley isn't
    in Canada) and the conversation turned to the techniques used to make
    Ice Wine. Someone said "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes
    artificially before pressing them?" and I have some vague recollection
    that I read here that there's some fairly recent regulation about
    this. Can anyone help me.... Am I going round the bend here?


  2. #2
    Young Martle Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:51:51 +0100, Ian Hoare <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Hi
    >
    >Can anyone help me please. I was having a discussion about Apex 2004
    >Gewurztraminer Ice wine (yes I do realize that the Yakima valley isn't
    >in Canada) and the conversation turned to the techniques used to make
    >Ice Wine. Someone said "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes
    >artificially before pressing them?" and I have some vague recollection
    >that I read here that there's some fairly recent regulation about
    >this. Can anyone help me.... Am I going round the bend here?


    from
    http://www.tonyaspler.com/pub/articl...asp?id=979&s=5

    Icewine is made by allowing the grapes to hang on the vine until they
    freeze naturally. Since the juice is rich in sugar, the temperature
    has to drop well below freezing and stay there long enough for the
    bunches to be harvested and pressed while still in their frozen state.
    A thaw will cause the ice to melt and the water will dilute the sugars
    and acids, rendering the juice at harvest below the minimum sugar
    level of 32 Brix.

  3. #3
    Young Martle Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:05:16 -0330, Young Martle <[email protected]>
    wrote:



    hmmm! Not sure how that happened. I meant to send this
    http://www.winesofcanada.com/icewine_standards.html

  4. #4
    graham Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada


    "Ian Hoare" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Hi
    >
    > Can anyone help me please. I was having a discussion about Apex 2004
    > Gewurztraminer Ice wine (yes I do realize that the Yakima valley isn't
    > in Canada) and the conversation turned to the techniques used to make
    > Ice Wine. Someone said "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes
    > artificially before pressing them?"


    What rubbish! We don't have to!!
    Graham



  5. #5
    Mark Lipton Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    graham wrote:

    >>
    >> Can anyone help me please. I was having a discussion about Apex 2004
    >> Gewurztraminer Ice wine (yes I do realize that the Yakima valley isn't
    >> in Canada) and the conversation turned to the techniques used to make
    >> Ice Wine. Someone said "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes
    >> artificially before pressing them?"

    >
    > What rubbish! We don't have to!!
    > Graham


    You echo my own thoughts, Graham. My first reaction was "the last thing
    they have to worry about in Canada is the grapes _not_ freezing!"

    Mark Lipton

    --
    alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

  6. #6
    graham Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada


    "Mark Lipton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:gnkchs$5v7$[email protected]..
    > graham wrote:
    >
    >>>
    >>> Can anyone help me please. I was having a discussion about Apex 2004
    >>> Gewurztraminer Ice wine (yes I do realize that the Yakima valley isn't
    >>> in Canada) and the conversation turned to the techniques used to make
    >>> Ice Wine. Someone said "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes
    >>> artificially before pressing them?"

    >>
    >> What rubbish! We don't have to!!
    >> Graham

    >
    > You echo my own thoughts, Graham. My first reaction was "the last thing
    > they have to worry about in Canada is the grapes _not_ freezing!"
    >


    I think that they were able to pick a bit earlier this year, in December
    rather than January. Unfortunately, I live where it's too cold for
    grapes{:-( In fact it's too cold for most fruit.
    Graham



  7. #7
    Young Martle Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:39:40 -0500, Mark Lipton <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >>
    >> What rubbish! We don't have to!!
    >> Graham

    >
    >You echo my own thoughts, Graham. My first reaction was "the last thing
    >they have to worry about in Canada is the grapes _not_ freezing!"
    >
    >Mark Lipton


    I live in Newfoundland, Canada.
    I visited a farm where the owners are trying a variety of grapes.

    I mentioned icewine.
    They said something about needing at least 8 days of a certain
    temperature.

    Newfoundland rarely (if ever) gets that cold for that long. Surprise!

  8. #8
    Ian Hoare Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:07:47 -0700, "graham" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Ian Hoare" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]. .
    >> Hi
    >>
    >> Can anyone help me please. I was having a discussion about Apex 2004
    >> Gewurztraminer Ice wine (yes I do realize that the Yakima valley isn't
    >> in Canada) and the conversation turned to the techniques used to make
    >> Ice Wine. Someone said "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes
    >> artificially before pressing them?"

    >
    >What rubbish! We don't have to!!


    that's not the question I asked. Are you allowed to? I read the page
    youngmyrtle gave me (thanks YM) and that was unequivocal in so far as
    wines from British Columbia
    >5. Artificial refridgeration is prohibited except for tank colling during fermentation and during cold stabilization prior to bottling


    But when I looked for the same unequivocal phrase in the rules for
    wines from Ontario, I found something which could be a clever way of
    misleading with a definite undistributed middle

    When Harvesting the grapes must be in their natural frozen state ideal
    temp -10 to -13 C

    ~ The grapes must be pressed when frozen

    So they must be harvested frozen and pressed frozen, butthere's no
    similar rule to British Columbia's forbidding artificial
    refrigeration.

    So by reading between the lines they could be kept in a freezer or
    even cooled further in a freezer between harvesting and pressing.

    I know that at one time, Canadian ice wines were sometimes "helped"
    using artificial methods, so I'd be grateful if you could tell me
    unequivocally, if such a procedure isnow specifically forbidden or
    not.


  9. #9
    graham Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada


    "Ian Hoare" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:07:47 -0700, "graham" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"Ian Hoare" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected] ..
    >>> Hi
    >>>
    >>> Can anyone help me please. I was having a discussion about Apex 2004
    >>> Gewurztraminer Ice wine (yes I do realize that the Yakima valley isn't
    >>> in Canada) and the conversation turned to the techniques used to make
    >>> Ice Wine. Someone said "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes
    >>> artificially before pressing them?"

    >>
    >>What rubbish! We don't have to!!

    >
    > that's not the question I asked. Are you allowed to? I read the page
    > youngmyrtle gave me (thanks YM) and that was unequivocal in so far as
    > wines from British Columbia
    >>5. Artificial refridgeration is prohibited except for tank colling during
    >>fermentation and during cold stabilization prior to bottling

    >
    > But when I looked for the same unequivocal phrase in the rules for
    > wines from Ontario, I found something which could be a clever way of
    > misleading with a definite undistributed middle
    >
    > When Harvesting the grapes must be in their natural frozen state ideal
    > temp -10 to -13 C
    >
    > ~ The grapes must be pressed when frozen
    >
    > So they must be harvested frozen and pressed frozen, butthere's no
    > similar rule to British Columbia's forbidding artificial
    > refrigeration.
    >
    > So by reading between the lines they could be kept in a freezer or
    > even cooled further in a freezer between harvesting and pressing.
    >
    > I know that at one time, Canadian ice wines were sometimes "helped"
    > using artificial methods, so I'd be grateful if you could tell me
    > unequivocally, if such a procedure isnow specifically forbidden or
    > not.
    >

    I never heard of it during my trips to the Okanagan and the wineries always
    made a big thing of picking in the middle of the night when the grapes were
    frozen.
    Bill S. would be the best person to answer this.
    Graham



  10. #10
    Ian Hoare Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    Hi again Graham,

    When I first wrote, I hoped for a simple reply like "It's been
    forbidden since 20??" or whatever.

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:51:13 -0700, "graham" <[email protected]> wrote:


    >> I know that at one time, Canadian ice wines were sometimes "helped"
    >> using artificial methods, so I'd be grateful if you could tell me
    >> unequivocally, if such a procedure isnow specifically forbidden or
    >> not.
    >>

    >I never heard of it during my trips to the Okanagan and the wineries always
    >made a big thing of picking in the middle of the night when the grapes were
    >frozen.


    Yes indeed they would do so. But since I write my latest reply, I've
    been doing some more reading. Canadian Icewine makers don't _have_ to
    adhere to the VQA rules and in fact Wiki says ice wine production is
    only regulated by the "Vintners Quality Alliance in the provinces of
    British Columbia and Ontario". I've not managed to find in my brief
    forays on the web, whether there are ANY regulations that are binding
    on ALL ice wine making in Canada, and so far, I can't.

    I've already quoted the VQA rules for Ontario, and even they don't
    specifically forbid using a freezer between harvest and pressing. I'm
    not saying they do it, but seeking to find out what the regulations
    are.

    When I read - also in Wiki, which could be suspect, of course,

    "Canadian rules were further tightened in British Columbia in 2000
    after a producer dealt with the mild winter of 1999 by moving grapes
    up to the mountains to seek freezing temperatures."

    I suppose it's possible that I was thinking of this in the context of
    "recent regulations".

    It's also possible that the person who asked me, had read of the huge
    levels of counterfeiting that was going on, or of Bonny Doon's "vin de
    glaciere. "

    >Bill S. would be the best person to answer this.


    Probably, though I've never got the impression that he's got heavily
    involved in the legal framework of winemaking in Canada. even though
    he's a lawyer living in BC.



  11. #11
    graham Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada


    "Ian Hoare" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Hi again Graham,
    >
    > When I first wrote, I hoped for a simple reply like "It's been
    > forbidden since 20??" or whatever.
    >
    > On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:51:13 -0700, "graham" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> I know that at one time, Canadian ice wines were sometimes "helped"
    >>> using artificial methods, so I'd be grateful if you could tell me
    >>> unequivocally, if such a procedure isnow specifically forbidden or
    >>> not.
    >>>

    >>I never heard of it during my trips to the Okanagan and the wineries
    >>always
    >>made a big thing of picking in the middle of the night when the grapes
    >>were
    >>frozen.

    >
    > Yes indeed they would do so. But since I write my latest reply, I've
    > been doing some more reading. Canadian Icewine makers don't _have_ to
    > adhere to the VQA rules and in fact Wiki says ice wine production is
    > only regulated by the "Vintners Quality Alliance in the provinces of
    > British Columbia and Ontario". I've not managed to find in my brief
    > forays on the web, whether there are ANY regulations that are binding
    > on ALL ice wine making in Canada, and so far, I can't.
    >
    > I've already quoted the VQA rules for Ontario, and even they don't
    > specifically forbid using a freezer between harvest and pressing. I'm
    > not saying they do it, but seeking to find out what the regulations
    > are.
    >


    It makes sense that if you have a limited time to pick a largish crop and
    having limited pressing ability, temporary storage in a freezer makes
    sense - and I can't see any harm in that.
    Graham



  12. #12
    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    On Feb 19, 5:31*pm, "graham" <g.ste...@shaw.ca> wrote:
    > "Ian Hoare" <ianho...@operamail.net> wrote in message
    >
    > news:[email protected]..
    >
    >
    >
    > > Hi again Graham,

    >
    > > When I first wrote, I hoped for a simple reply like "It's been
    > > forbidden since 20??" or whatever.

    >
    > > On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:51:13 -0700, "graham" <g.ste...@shaw.ca> wrote:

    >
    > >>> I know that at one time, Canadian ice wines were sometimes "helped"
    > >>> using artificial methods, so I'd be grateful if you could tell me
    > >>> unequivocally, if such a procedure isnow specifically forbidden or
    > >>> not.

    >
    > >>I never heard of it during my trips to the Okanagan and the wineries
    > >>always
    > >>made a big thing of picking *in the middle of the night when the grapes
    > >>were
    > >>frozen.

    >
    > > Yes indeed they would do so. But since I write my latest reply, I've
    > > been doing some more reading. Canadian Icewine makers don't _have_ to
    > > adhere to the VQA rules and in fact Wiki says ice wine production is
    > > only regulated by the *"Vintners Quality Alliance in the provinces of
    > > British Columbia and Ontario". I've not managed to find in my brief
    > > forays on the web, whether there are ANY regulations that are binding
    > > on ALL ice wine making in Canada, and so far, I can't.

    >
    > > I've already quoted the VQA rules for Ontario, and even they don't
    > > specifically forbid using a freezer between harvest and pressing. I'm
    > > not saying they do it, but seeking to find out what the regulations
    > > are.

    >
    > It makes sense that if you have a limited time to pick a largish crop and
    > having limited pressing ability, temporary storage in a freezer makes
    > sense - *and I can't see any harm in that.


    Just for comparison, let us consider how German eiswein is made. With
    the then new 1971 wine laws, an eiswein, if the grapes were properly
    frozen on the vine, could be of anything from kabinett to TBA level,
    based on the sugar content of the juice pressed from the frozen
    grapes. But the juice, if pressed from the same grapes unfrozen might
    be of a considerably lower sugar content. Thus grapes that would
    normally make a kabinett wine might make an auslese eiswein since
    sugar is greatly concentrated in the juice pressed from the frozen
    grapes. There actually were a few kabinett eisweins made, which would
    be well below kabinett sugar content if pressed from unfrozen grapes,
    and just met the kabinett level of sweetness when pressed as eiswein.
    I have tasted such wine, and it is not a very pretty thing that might
    best be described as essence of greeness. Because such nasty eiswines
    were giving German eiswein a bad name, a few years later the law was
    changed so that only frozen grapes that give a BA or TBA level of
    sugar content in the pressed juice could be called eiswein and BA or
    TBA could not be added to the name - only eiswein.

    With this background, eisweins are seldom made from the best grapes in
    the best years such as 1976 when many TBAs well over the legal lower
    sugar content limit can be produced. A high end TBA capable grape
    contains so much sugar that the nearly dry grapes would require
    extremely low temperatures to freeze well. However using refrigeration
    to freeze the TBA grapes to an extremely low temperature, it might be
    possible to make a super rich eiswein that would be as rich as Tokay
    Essence from Hungary. Eisweins are interesting, but I will usually
    like a true TBA from a good vineyard and wine maker better than their
    eiswein.

    The danger in allowing eiswein to be made and sold, is that some will
    make eiswein from grapes that are not nearly ripe enough and that
    contain too much sharp acidity unless there are very strict rules,
    such as now in Germany. I see no reason why use of refrigeration or
    natural freezing should make any difference, other than some will be
    tempted to harvest the grapes too soon if they can use refrigeration
    to freeze the grapes.




  13. #13
    Ian Hoare Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    Hi Graham,

    >It makes sense that if you have a limited time to pick a largish crop and
    >having limited pressing ability, temporary storage in a freezer makes
    >sense - and I can't see any harm in that.


    I can do lttle to improve on cwdjr's answer. when it comes to talking
    about the possible harm.

    I'd only add that IF there were no possible harm, then I don't see why
    BC should specifically forbid it.

    My original question wasn't designed in any way to cause a dispute,
    but to clarify a question that was raised elsewhere.

    Icewine might be quite a big thing in Canadian wineloving circles, but
    on a world scale, very sweet wines from any country are very much of
    minority interest, and ice wine even less so. So in that context, it's
    reasonable for people not to have much idea of what can and can't be
    done, and even where. It's perfectly possible that Sue (the person who
    asked me) was thinking of the vin de glaciere from Bonny Doon when she
    said she'd heard of ice wines being made from grapes frozen in the
    freezer.

    As I said before, my original question had little to do with the
    rights or wrongs of this or that technique.

    Is it worth repeating it? I'd dearly love to have an answer, which so
    far I've not been able to find on the web.

    >She asked "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes artificially before pressing them?" and I have some vague recollection
    > that I read here that there's some fairly recent regulation about this. Can anyone help me.... Am I going round the bend here?


    Sorry if it sounds like I'm insultig the integrity of Canadian
    winemakers. I'm not. I'm trying to find out what - if any -
    regulations exist for ALL makers of Ice wine in Canada - in the same
    was as they do, say, in Germany. Or for Tokaji Aszu in Hungary, or for
    Sauternes in France.




  14. #14
    Michael Pronay Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    Ian Hoare <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Sorry if it sounds like I'm insultig the integrity of Canadian
    > winemakers. I'm not. I'm trying to find out what - if any -
    > regulations exist for ALL makers of Ice wine in Canada - in the
    > same was as they do, say, in Germany. Or for Tokaji Aszu in
    > Hungary, or for Sauternes in France.


    Quite obviously: apparently not. (Which does *not* imply that
    anybody would use freezers in Canada.)

    Btw, Austria has the same regulations as has Germany: no
    artificial freezing permitted.

    Thus said, I'd also say that probably there was a mix-up with
    Bonny Doon's deep freezer wine.

    M.

  15. #15
    Dennis R Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > Hi Graham,
    >
    > >It makes sense that if you have a limited time to pick a largish crop and
    > >having limited pressing ability, temporary storage in a freezer makes
    > >sense - and I can't see any harm in that.

    >
    > I can do lttle to improve on cwdjr's answer. when it comes to talking
    > about the possible harm.
    >
    > I'd only add that IF there were no possible harm, then I don't see why
    > BC should specifically forbid it.
    >
    > My original question wasn't designed in any way to cause a dispute,
    > but to clarify a question that was raised elsewhere.
    >
    > Icewine might be quite a big thing in Canadian wineloving circles, but
    > on a world scale, very sweet wines from any country are very much of
    > minority interest, and ice wine even less so. So in that context, it's
    > reasonable for people not to have much idea of what can and can't be
    > done, and even where. It's perfectly possible that Sue (the person who
    > asked me) was thinking of the vin de glaciere from Bonny Doon when she
    > said she'd heard of ice wines being made from grapes frozen in the
    > freezer.
    >
    > As I said before, my original question had little to do with the
    > rights or wrongs of this or that technique.
    >
    > Is it worth repeating it? I'd dearly love to have an answer, which so
    > far I've not been able to find on the web.
    >
    > >She asked "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes artificially before pressing them?" and I have some vague recollection
    > > that I read here that there's some fairly recent regulation about this. Can anyone help me.... Am I going round the bend here?

    >
    > Sorry if it sounds like I'm insultig the integrity of Canadian
    > winemakers. I'm not. I'm trying to find out what - if any -
    > regulations exist for ALL makers of Ice wine in Canada - in the same
    > was as they do, say, in Germany. Or for Tokaji Aszu in Hungary, or for
    > Sauternes in France.
    >
    >
    >
    >

    At this time, only BC and Ontario wineries belong to the
    Vintner's Quality Alliance (VQA). Those two provinces
    constitute the bulk of Canadian made wines, with some
    production in Quebec and some in scattered spots in the
    Maritimes of non-Vitis Vinifera wines. The Ontario
    Liquor Control Board (LCBO) is probably the single
    largest buyer in the world, and uses its network of
    government controlled stores to promote VQA wines where
    possible. VQA wines still are a minority of wines
    consumed in Canada, even in Ontario. Even if a winery
    produces VQA wines, not all of the wines they produce
    are qualified to be labelled VQA. Due to the LCBO's
    requirements for sheer volume before a product is
    listed, many of the better wines from the boutique
    wineries are only sold locally, or only at the winery.

    As far as I know, only VQA members are required to
    follow the rules on Icewines at:

    http://www.winesofcanada.com/icewine_standards.html

    The icewine harvest in my neck of the woods was early
    this year due to several prolonged cold spells in the
    normally warmer "banana belt" of Canada, Lake Erie North
    Shore appellation (latitude 42 degrees North- northern
    California). The Nigagara region (closer to Toronto 400
    km north of us) was a few weeks later than ours. There
    are only about 15 boutique and 2 large scale wineries in
    our appellation, compared to almost 10 times as many in
    Niagara appellation.

    You can browse the VQA websites to get an idea of
    production compared to Europe, California or Australia
    at:

    www.vqaontario.com

    www.winebc.com

    Dennis
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    (next door to Detroit, Michigan, USA)

  16. #16
    Mike Tommasi Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    Ian Hoare wrote:
    > Hi
    >
    > Can anyone help me please. I was having a discussion about Apex 2004
    > Gewurztraminer Ice wine (yes I do realize that the Yakima valley isn't
    > in Canada) and the conversation turned to the techniques used to make
    > Ice Wine. Someone said "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes
    > artificially before pressing them?" and I have some vague recollection
    > that I read here that there's some fairly recent regulation about
    > this. Can anyone help me.... Am I going round the bend here?
    >



    Canada has agreed with Germany and Austria to only use the term Icewine
    if the wine is produced according to the same rules as Eiswein.

    Er, don't you all scream at me simultaneously, but it seems to me that
    freezing them artificially would probably result in exactly the same
    thing...

    --
    Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
    email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

  17. #17
    graham Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada


    "Mike Tommasi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Ian Hoare wrote:
    >> Hi Can anyone help me please. I was having a discussion about Apex 2004
    >> Gewurztraminer Ice wine (yes I do realize that the Yakima valley isn't
    >> in Canada) and the conversation turned to the techniques used to make
    >> Ice Wine. Someone said "Don't the Canadians freeze their grapes
    >> artificially before pressing them?" and I have some vague recollection
    >> that I read here that there's some fairly recent regulation about
    >> this. Can anyone help me.... Am I going round the bend here?

    >
    >
    > Canada has agreed with Germany and Austria to only use the term Icewine if
    > the wine is produced according to the same rules as Eiswein.
    >
    > Er, don't you all scream at me simultaneously, but it seems to me that
    > freezing them artificially would probably result in exactly the same
    > thing...
    >


    I e-mailed Tony Aspler, Canada's premier wine writer with Ian's original
    query and received the following reply:

    Graham, an agreement in 2000 between Germany, Austria and Canada mandated
    that Icewine had to be made from vine-frozen grapes. This is part of the VQA
    regulations - grapes must be frozen on the vine. The only instance of
    cryo-extraction (grapes harvested then frozen in commercial freezers) was
    Hillebrand's 1984 Vidal Icewine. Home winemakers use the technique of
    freezing pressed juice and removing the ice that forms on top of the
    container. I imagine that most of the counterfeit Icewine that ends up in
    China and Taiwan is made by freezing grapes that have been harvested.
    Cheers, Tony

    Ps. There is no such restriction for Quebec's Ice Cider. It can be made from
    apples frozen on the tree or harvested apples left outside to freeze.

    Tony Aspler.com.





  18. #18
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    On Feb 22, 7:27*am, Mike Tommasi <nob...@tommasi.org> wrote:

    >
    > Er, don't you all scream at me simultaneously, but it seems to me that
    > freezing them artificially would probably result in exactly the same
    > thing...


    Not necessarily. Cryo-extracted grapes can be harvested along with the
    normally-processed grapes. Ice wine grapes, howevewr, must be left on
    the vine until they freeze at -10C or so, usually in November,
    December or January in the northern hemisphere. They are likely to
    have a bit more sugar and less acid than grapes harvested in September
    or October. I'd think that might have some influence on the final
    product.

    BTW, if I'm not mistaken, only vine-frozen grapes can be lebeled as
    ice wine in the US, as well as in Canada, Germany and Austria. Cryo-
    extracted wines are not illegal, but they cannot be labeled as ice
    wine.

  19. #19
    Anders TÝrneskog Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada


    <[email protected]> skrev i melding
    news:[email protected]..
    On Feb 22, 7:27 am, Mike Tommasi <nob...@tommasi.org> wrote:

    >
    >> Er, don't you all scream at me simultaneously, but it seems to me that
    >> freezing them artificially would probably result in exactly the same
    >> thing...


    >Not necessarily. Cryo-extracted grapes can be harvested along with the
    >normally-processed grapes. Ice wine grapes, howevewr, must be left on
    >the vine until they freeze at -10C or so, usually in November,
    >December or January in the northern hemisphere. They are likely to
    >have a bit more sugar and less acid


    And the freezing elevates both sugar and acid levels, I understand. I
    recall an Erdener Busslay (Mosel) Ice Wine 1983 (I think) as one of the most
    fabulous wines I've tasted. It had 13g/l acid... and with the RS to match,
    it was a most mouthtitillating experience :-)
    Anders



  20. #20
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Re: Ice wines in Canada

    AFAIK all of the BC wineries do it the old fashioned way, waiting for
    the grapes to freeze naturally. We never quite know what those in
    Ontario get up to - I suspect that if they don't have enough frost
    they could just trot out a politician to do stand up comedy (like
    reading the new budget). That woud frost anything!

    One must remember that the VQA is optional. In fact many of the very
    best (and often smallest) producers do not belong to it - for two
    reasons. They don't want to pay the fees to belong, and they sell
    every bottle they make without the cachet of being VQA.

    I recall in the 80s seeing wineries in Napa and Sonoma doing things
    like spraying the grapes with botrytis to infect them and harvesting
    and then using commercial freezers to concentrate the grapes. That
    could possibly go on in BC, but I don't personally know of any
    instances.

    I regard BC ice wine as a confection to be put in little fancy
    expensive bottles and sold at several times what they are worth to
    Japanese tourists anxious to impress their coworkers and friends back
    home.

    I have never tasted (and I have tried many) of these wines that
    matched or even approached the distinction or balance or flavour
    interest of a decent german BA or Eiswein. If the stuff weren't so
    damned expensive, it might be useful for filling our humminbird
    feeder....

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