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Thread: Eurocave froze bottles

  1. #1
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Eurocave froze bottles

    Youch!!! Went into my eurocave last night for the first time in some
    weeks (no time for drinking lately) and the bottles on the back of
    bottom shelf frozen!!!!
    in cave...with instant read was 17F !!!!

    Two bottles with popped corks...others iced over.

    Defrosted slowly.

    Is this wine dead meat???


  2. #2
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: Eurocave froze bottles

    On Sep 27, 3:13�pm, jbo...@nyu.edu wrote:
    > Youch!!! �Went into my eurocave last night for the first time in some
    > weeks (no time for drinking lately) and the bottles on the back of
    > bottom shelf frozen!!!!
    > in cave...with instant read was 17F !!!!
    >
    > Two bottles with popped corks...others iced over.
    >
    > Defrosted slowly.
    >
    > Is this wine dead meat???


    If cork is compromised, you of course have oxidation issues. Drink
    ASAP
    IF cork seal isn't damaged, wine should be fine.
    You'll probably see some tartrate crystals precipitate out.

  3. #3
    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Default Re: Eurocave froze bottles

    On Sep 27, 2:13*pm, jbo...@nyu.edu wrote:
    > Youch!!! *Went into my eurocave last night for the first time in some
    > weeks (no time for drinking lately) and the bottles on the back of
    > bottom shelf frozen!!!!
    > in cave...with instant read was 17F !!!!
    >
    > Two bottles with popped corks...others iced over.
    >
    > Defrosted slowly.


    I doubt if much damage has been done to the wine, provided the corks
    have not been forced completely out. Since the freezing causes
    expansion, considerable pressure likely was built up that caused
    partial or complete expulsion of a few corks. Of course any bottles
    with completely popped corks should be dealt with at once. It might be
    best to leave them frozen, cover the neck with something, and put them
    in a freezer until you are ready to thaw and drink them. Very little
    air can penetrate the frozen wine. For those in which corks have moved
    just a bit, I would try pressing the corks in after the temperature is
    back to normal to see if they will move. If they will not move,
    likely little or no air will be pulled back into the bottle, but it
    would be safest to drink such wines in the fairly near future.

    For the bottles for which the corks have not moved, I doubt if any
    serious damage has been done. In general, lowering of temperature
    slows down chemical reactions. The extreme cold may have caused
    sediment to form, mainly tartrates, that is less soluble in cold wine
    than in wine at normal temperature. Some of the tartrates may go back
    into solution over the long haul. Many wines form tartrates if not
    cold stabilized by chilling them to a low temperature briefly, before
    separation of the wine and bottling. This likely does nothing useful
    other than preventing sediment from forming in wine before it is sold
    and causing alarm and rejected sales by some. Some wines are not cold
    stabilized, such as many of the best German late harvest wines. You
    should see the large amount of tartrate crystals in some of the better
    German 1976 late harvest Rieslings. There is even a story, perhaps an
    urban myth, that one US wholesaler tried to reject a shipment of fine
    German wine because he thought the wine had broken glass in it!.

    There are over-under temperature alarms that I suggest anyone with
    much valuable wine should have in their cellar or wine storage unit.
    As you found out, malfunctions of refrigeration equipment can happen.
    Usually the unit quits cooling. Howeve,r in rare cases, the unit cools
    all of the time as apparently happened in your case. Sometimes a relay
    hangs closed and causes this problem. A malfunction of a thermostat,
    especially an electronic one, also could cause this problem.


  4. #4
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Re: Eurocave froze bottles

    Thanks to both of you.... I will look into an alarm....might be nice
    add on for Eurocave to consider....linked to net software that would
    send a txt to cellphone!!!

    Maybe an offline to side by side frozen/unfrozen bottles blind....

    JB


    On Sep 27, 4:22*pm, cwdjrxyz <spamtr...@cwdjr.info> wrote:
    > On Sep 27, 2:13*pm, jbo...@nyu.edu wrote:
    >
    > > Youch!!! *Went into my eurocave last night for the first time in some
    > > weeks (no time for drinking lately) and the bottles on the back of
    > > bottom shelf frozen!!!!
    > > in cave...with instant read was 17F !!!!

    >
    > > Two bottles with popped corks...others iced over.

    >
    > > Defrosted slowly.

    >
    > I doubt if much damage has been done to the wine, provided the corks
    > have not been forced completely out. Since the freezing causes
    > expansion, considerable pressure likely was built up that caused
    > partial or complete expulsion of a few corks. Of course any bottles
    > with completely popped corks should be dealt with at once. It might be
    > best to leave them frozen, cover the neck with something, and put them
    > in a freezer until you are ready to thaw and drink them. Very little
    > air can penetrate the frozen wine. For those in which corks have moved
    > just a bit, I would try pressing the corks in after the temperature is
    > back to normal to see if they will *move. If they will not move,
    > likely little or no air will be pulled back into the bottle, but it
    > would be safest to drink such wines in the fairly near future.
    >
    > For the bottles for which the corks have not moved, I doubt if any
    > serious damage has been done. In general, lowering of temperature
    > slows down chemical reactions. The extreme cold may have caused
    > sediment to form, mainly tartrates, that is less soluble in cold wine
    > than in wine at normal temperature. Some of the tartrates may go back
    > into solution over the long haul. Many wines form tartrates if not
    > cold stabilized by chilling them to a low temperature briefly, before
    > separation of the wine and bottling. This likely does nothing useful
    > other than preventing sediment from forming in wine before it is sold
    > and causing alarm and rejected sales by some. Some wines are not cold
    > stabilized, such as many of the best German late harvest wines. You
    > should see the large amount of tartrate crystals in some of the better
    > German 1976 late harvest Rieslings. There is even a story, perhaps an
    > urban myth, that one US wholesaler tried to reject a shipment of fine
    > German wine because he thought the wine had broken glass in it!.
    >
    > There are over-under temperature alarms that I suggest anyone with
    > much valuable wine should have in their cellar or wine storage unit.
    > As you found out, malfunctions of refrigeration equipment can happen.
    > Usually the unit quits cooling. Howeve,r in rare cases, the unit cools
    > all of the time as apparently happened in your case. Sometimes a relay
    > hangs closed and causes this problem. A malfunction of a thermostat,
    > especially an electronic one, also could cause this problem.



  5. #5
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: Eurocave froze bottles

    On Sep 27, 4:36�pm, jbo...@nyu.edu wrote:

    > Maybe an offline to side by side frozen/unfrozen bottles blind....
    >


    Initially I just saw jbo..... , and didn't pay attention. Now that I
    see where you are posting from, I think an offline is a brilliant
    idea, you should invite the spouses of colleagues!

  6. #6
    Shaun Eli Guest

    Default Re: Eurocave froze bottles

    How on earth could it get that cold? Even if the compressor ran
    continuously I doubt that the cooling unit blows air anywhere near
    freezing... And given that it's September it's really not freezing
    weather in most of the world.

    I'd love to hear an explanation.


    Shaun Eli
    www.BrainChampagne.com
    Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for Smart Minds (sm)

  7. #7
    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Default Re: Eurocave froze bottles

    On Sep 28, 11:35*am, Shaun Eli <missingch...@brainchampagne.com>
    wrote:
    > How on earth could it get that cold? *Even if the compressor ran
    > continuously I doubt that the cooling unit blows air anywhere near
    > freezing... And given that it's September it's really not freezing
    > weather in most of the world.
    >
    > I'd love to hear an explanation.


    The Eurocave unit takes in and exhausts condenser air inside the
    house. Thus the temperature it sees is whatever temperature is kept in
    the house which likely does not exceed 80 F, at least for most people
    who can afford to collect and age wine.. The temperature of the air in
    the wine storage area is lowered as it enters the AC, passes over the
    cooling coils, and reenters the storage area again. The temperature
    drop of the air passing through the AC cooling coils depends on the
    BTU capacity of the AC, the input temperature of the air taken in, and
    the velocity of the air stream. In fact many room ACs that take in and
    exhaust outdoors air to their condenser will freeze up in very hot and
    humid weather if the AC is on most of the time and the velocity of the
    air through the cooling coils is too low. If the wine storage area is
    well insulated so that heat loss is very low, the temperature will
    lower to even well below freezing until the point at which the energy
    input by the AC equals that of the heat loss by the storage unit
    unless a thermostat turns off the AC when a desired lower temperature
    is reached. In fact commercial AC companies have no trouble designing
    a very large room at or well below freezing for storage of meat,
    frozen food etc. When one goes to a temperature near or below
    freezing, some method of defrosting must be used to prevent ice build
    up on the cooling coils. To calculate the lowest temperature of a
    storage unit or room that is possible, one would have to know the
    cooling capacity of the AC unit as a function of temperature, the air
    temperature for air passed over the condenser, and the heat loss of
    the storage area. If the maker of the storage unit skimps on the
    capacity of the AC, it may be on nearly all of the time and not be
    able to reach freezing in the storage area. If the capacity of the AC
    is much larger than required for the storage area, it will be on for
    only short periods with a thermostat and may produce storage
    temperatures that are far below freezing without thermostat control.
    ACs are usually designed with a lower temperature range in mind. A
    room AC might not be called on for much under 71 F. A storage room for
    frozen food might need to keep the storage room at 0 F or below.

  8. #8
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: Eurocave froze bottles

    On Sep 28, 12:35�pm, Shaun Eli <missingch...@brainchampagne.com>
    wrote:
    > How on earth could it get that cold? �Even if the compressor ran
    > continuously I doubt that the cooling unit blows air anywhere near
    > freezing... And given that it's September it's really not freezing
    > weather in most of the world.
    >
    > I'd love to hear an explanation.
    >
    > Shaun Eliwww.BrainChampagne.com
    > Brain Champagne: �Clever Comedy for Smart Minds (sm)


    Cwdjrxyz beat me to it. Just as compressor on your fridge keeps one
    part of unit at 40F, and freezer at 0-10F, it all comes down to
    thermostat. If thermostat goes, compressor just keeps chilling and
    chilling, It might normally blow around 40 to 45 to keep around 58.
    But if it it keeps recirculating air that is already cold, the air
    temp it blows will steadily drop.

  9. #9
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: Eurocave froze bottles

    On Sep 28, 12:35�pm, Shaun Eli <missingch...@brainchampagne.com>
    wrote:
    > How on earth could it get that cold? �Even if the compressor ran
    > continuously I doubt that the cooling unit blows air anywhere near
    > freezing... And given that it's September it's really not freezing
    > weather in most of the world.
    >
    > I'd love to hear an explanation.
    >
    > Shaun Eliwww.BrainChampagne.com
    > Brain Champagne: �Clever Comedy for Smart Minds (sm)


    PS I've probably heard at least a half-dozen frozen wines in wine cave
    stories.

  10. #10
    Shaun Eli Guest

    Default Re: Eurocave froze bottles

    Thanks. I'm surprised that for a fridge that doesn't need to get
    colder than 50 degrees F they'd use a compressor that's capable of
    getting down below freezing. Because even if you keep running the
    same air over the coils, if the coils are at 40 degrees nothing's
    gonna freeze.

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