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Thread: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

  1. #1
    DaleW Guest

    Default Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    There have been a lot of concerns about the business practices of
    Cellarbrokers on Long Island. Basically I've discouraged folks for
    shopping there, they seemed to be a "order the wine and we'll order
    it" type operations, and seldom actually had access to wines they had
    listed. I never attempted to order personally, but a friend tried to
    order a red Auxey 1er that we had tried together (we were going to
    split a 6), they offered the village blanc.

    But it seems that their business has ended- the following appears on
    http://cellarbrokers.com/

    Due to recent high order volumes and a systems change, we are
    currently not accepting any new orders. If you are a current customer
    and were charged for an order you did not receive, please contact your
    credit/debit card company directly for a refund. We are very sorry for
    this inconvenience

    If anyone has outstanding orders, I'd contact your cc company
    immediately, some have time limits on contested charges.

  2. #2
    Mark Lipton Guest

    Default Re: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    DaleW wrote:
    > There have been a lot of concerns about the business practices of
    > Cellarbrokers on Long Island. [...]
    > If anyone has outstanding orders, I'd contact your cc company
    > immediately, some have time limits on contested charges.


    I just saw this on WLDG, too, Dale. Yet another concern arises from an
    examination of their domain registration data: they have purposefully
    chosen to conceal all details about who is behind their business by
    privately registering their domain. I can't think of any reason why a
    legitimate business would choose to do that.

    Mark Lipton

    --
    alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

  3. #3
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    On Jan 5, 11:51�am, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
    > DaleW wrote:
    > > There have been a lot of concerns about the business practices of
    > > Cellarbrokers on Long Island. [...]
    > > If anyone has outstanding orders, I'd contact your cc company
    > > immediately, some have time limits on contested charges.

    >
    > I just saw this on WLDG, too, Dale. �Yet another concern arises from an
    > examination of their domain registration data: they have purposefully
    > chosen to conceal all details about who is behind their business by
    > privately registering their domain. �I can't think of any reason why a
    > legitimate business would choose to do that.
    >
    > Mark Lipton
    >
    > --
    > alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


    I think more bad business model than intentional scam (at least
    originally). They were duly licensed by NYS, with a 3 year license
    that started in 2006. That requires a hefty fee and even heftier
    surety bond, It also requires a background check.

    There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
    distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
    tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
    stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
    able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
    want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
    Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
    Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
    believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
    anymore!).

    For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
    history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
    personal relationship:
    Chambers or Sherry Lehmann in NYC
    Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
    (Scarsdale)
    Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)

  4. #4
    Mark Lipton Guest

    Default Re: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    DaleW wrote:

    >
    > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
    > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
    > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
    > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
    > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
    > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
    > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
    > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
    > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
    > anymore!).


    Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
    you, ignore them. The Boston winegeek set have bashed them often enough
    to make me wary.

    >
    > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
    > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
    > personal relationship:
    > Chambers or Sherry Lehmann in NYC
    > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
    > (Scarsdale)
    > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)


    Ditto. Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
    they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
    orders). PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
    well know.

    Mark Lipton


    --
    alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

  5. #5
    Bi!! Guest

    Default Re: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    On Jan 5, 12:43�pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
    > DaleW wrote:
    >
    > > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
    > > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
    > > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
    > > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
    > > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
    > > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
    > > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
    > > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
    > > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
    > > anymore!).

    >
    > Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
    > you, ignore them. �The Boston winegeek set have bashed them oftenenough
    > to make me wary.
    >
    >
    >
    > > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
    > > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
    > > personal relationship:
    > > Chambers or �Sherry Lehmann in NYC
    > > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
    > > (Scarsdale)
    > > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)

    >
    > Ditto. �Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
    > they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
    > orders). �PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
    > well know.
    >
    > Mark Lipton
    >
    > --
    > alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


    I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
    they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
    mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
    wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
    seconds of recieving the e-mail.

  6. #6
    Lawrence Leichtman Guest

    Default Re: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    In article
    <[email protected]>,
    "Bi!!" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Jan 5, 12:43?pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
    > > DaleW wrote:
    > >
    > > > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
    > > > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
    > > > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
    > > > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
    > > > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
    > > > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
    > > > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
    > > > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
    > > > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
    > > > anymore!).

    > >
    > > Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
    > > you, ignore them. ?The Boston winegeek set have bashed them often enough
    > > to make me wary.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
    > > > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
    > > > personal relationship:
    > > > Chambers or ?Sherry Lehmann in NYC
    > > > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
    > > > (Scarsdale)
    > > > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)

    > >
    > > Ditto. ?Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
    > > they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
    > > orders). ?PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
    > > well know.
    > >
    > > Mark Lipton
    > >
    > > --
    > > alt.food.wine FAQ: ?http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

    >
    > I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
    > they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
    > mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
    > wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
    > seconds of recieving the e-mail.


    I am still a fan of Wine Library in Springfield NJ. When they send out
    specials they have them and if they run out they will backorder them for
    you and you still get the same price.

  7. #7
    DaleW Guest

    Default Re: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    On Jan 5, 4:18�pm, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
    > In article
    > <d1a829e6-0e04-44c5-b2a3-2bec55fb6...@b41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > �"Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com> wrote:
    > > On Jan 5, 12:43?pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
    > > > DaleW wrote:

    >
    > > > > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
    > > > > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
    > > > > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
    > > > > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor willbe
    > > > > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
    > > > > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
    > > > > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
    > > > > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
    > > > > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
    > > > > anymore!).

    >
    > > > Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
    > > > you, ignore them. ?The Boston winegeek set have bashed them often enough
    > > > to make me wary.

    >
    > > > > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
    > > > > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
    > > > > personal relationship:
    > > > > Chambers or ?Sherry Lehmann in NYC
    > > > > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
    > > > > (Scarsdale)
    > > > > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)

    >
    > > > Ditto. ?Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
    > > > they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
    > > > orders). ?PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
    > > > well know.

    >
    > > > Mark Lipton

    >
    > > > --
    > > > alt.food.wine FAQ: ?http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

    >
    > > I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
    > > they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
    > > mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
    > > wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
    > > seconds of recieving the e-mail.

    >
    > I am still a fan of Wine Library in Springfield NJ. When they send out
    > specials they have them and if they run out they will backorder them for
    > you and you still get the same price.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    I'd certainly feel comfortable with WineLibrary too, in fact I did
    have some small #s of '05 Bdx futures there (Barde Haut) that were
    delivered. My list was somewhat off the cuff, not intended as
    exhaustive.

    As to PC, I've probably gotten more "steals" there than all other
    retailers combined, especially on Burgs and Germans. But one must be
    prepared for a wait. And then there is still the possibility of it not
    coming in. In the few cases that happened with me, they've always
    offered me an "upgrade" as compensation. But as I get more and more
    wine, and economy gets shakier and shakier, I'm less inclined to order
    prearrival and trust I'll be happy with offer if something gets
    screwed up. I've got a '02 Dujac Combottes on books for almost 3
    years, time to start negotiating. Now I just order in-stock items.

  8. #8
    Lawrence Leichtman Guest

    Default Re: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    In article
    <[email protected]>,
    DaleW <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Jan 5, 4:18?pm, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
    > > In article
    > > <d1a829e6-0e04-44c5-b2a3-2bec55fb6...@b41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ?"Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com> wrote:
    > > > On Jan 5, 12:43?pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
    > > > > DaleW wrote:

    > >
    > > > > > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
    > > > > > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
    > > > > > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
    > > > > > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
    > > > > > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
    > > > > > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
    > > > > > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
    > > > > > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
    > > > > > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
    > > > > > anymore!).

    > >
    > > > > Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
    > > > > you, ignore them. ?The Boston winegeek set have bashed them often enough
    > > > > to make me wary.

    > >
    > > > > > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
    > > > > > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
    > > > > > personal relationship:
    > > > > > Chambers or ?Sherry Lehmann in NYC
    > > > > > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
    > > > > > (Scarsdale)
    > > > > > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)

    > >
    > > > > Ditto. ?Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
    > > > > they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
    > > > > orders). ?PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
    > > > > well know.

    > >
    > > > > Mark Lipton

    > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > alt.food.wine FAQ: ?http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

    > >
    > > > I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
    > > > they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
    > > > mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
    > > > wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
    > > > seconds of recieving the e-mail.

    > >
    > > I am still a fan of Wine Library in Springfield NJ. When they send out
    > > specials they have them and if they run out they will backorder them for
    > > you and you still get the same price.- Hide quoted text -
    > >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > I'd certainly feel comfortable with WineLibrary too, in fact I did
    > have some small #s of '05 Bdx futures there (Barde Haut) that were
    > delivered. My list was somewhat off the cuff, not intended as
    > exhaustive.
    >
    > As to PC, I've probably gotten more "steals" there than all other
    > retailers combined, especially on Burgs and Germans. But one must be
    > prepared for a wait. And then there is still the possibility of it not
    > coming in. In the few cases that happened with me, they've always
    > offered me an "upgrade" as compensation. But as I get more and more
    > wine, and economy gets shakier and shakier, I'm less inclined to order
    > prearrival and trust I'll be happy with offer if something gets
    > screwed up. I've got a '02 Dujac Combottes on books for almost 3
    > years, time to start negotiating. Now I just order in-stock items.


    I've cut back on wine buying for several reasons. The economy certainly
    stinks and my income is way down for the last 6 months so not a lot of
    available money but also, at my age (61+) buying to hold for 30 years
    means I'm likely buying for my kids and they can afford their own wine
    at this point.

  9. #9
    Bi!! Guest

    Default Re: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    On Jan 6, 10:47�am, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
    > In article
    > <138f486e-b946-45fa-8aeb-8d2313dce...@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com>,
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > �DaleW <Dwmi...@aol.com> wrote:
    > > On Jan 5, 4:18?pm, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
    > > > In article
    > > > <d1a829e6-0e04-44c5-b2a3-2bec55fb6...@b41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,

    >
    > > > ?"Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com> wrote:
    > > > > On Jan 5, 12:43?pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
    > > > > > DaleW wrote:

    >
    > > > > > > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
    > > > > > > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
    > > > > > > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
    > > > > > > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
    > > > > > > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
    > > > > > > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
    > > > > > > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
    > > > > > > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
    > > > > > > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
    > > > > > > anymore!).

    >
    > > > > > Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
    > > > > > you, ignore them. ?The Boston winegeek set have bashed them oftenenough
    > > > > > to make me wary.

    >
    > > > > > > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
    > > > > > > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
    > > > > > > personal relationship:
    > > > > > > Chambers or ?Sherry Lehmann in NYC
    > > > > > > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
    > > > > > > (Scarsdale)
    > > > > > > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)

    >
    > > > > > Ditto. ?Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
    > > > > > they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
    > > > > > orders). ?PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
    > > > > > well know.

    >
    > > > > > Mark Lipton

    >
    > > > > > --
    > > > > > alt.food.wine FAQ: ?http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

    >
    > > > > I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
    > > > > they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
    > > > > mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
    > > > > wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
    > > > > seconds of recieving the e-mail.

    >
    > > > I am still a fan of Wine Library in Springfield NJ. When they send out
    > > > specials they have them and if they run out they will backorder them for
    > > > you and you still get the same price.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > I'd certainly feel comfortable with WineLibrary too, in fact I did
    > > have some small #s of '05 Bdx futures there (Barde Haut) that were
    > > delivered. My list was somewhat off the cuff, not intended as
    > > exhaustive.

    >
    > > As to PC, I've probably gotten more "steals" there than all other
    > > retailers combined, especially on Burgs and Germans. But one must be
    > > prepared for a wait. And then there is still the possibility of it not
    > > coming in. In the few cases that happened with me, they've always
    > > offered me an "upgrade" as compensation. But as I get more and more
    > > wine, and economy gets shakier and shakier, I'm less inclined to order
    > > prearrival and trust I'll be happy with offer if something gets
    > > screwed up. I've got a '02 Dujac Combottes on books for almost 3
    > > years, time to start negotiating. Now I just order in-stock items.

    >
    > I've cut back on wine buying for several reasons. The economy certainly
    > stinks and my income is way down for the last 6 months so not a lot of
    > available money but also, at my age (61+) buying to hold for 30 years
    > means I'm likely buying for my kids and they can afford their own wine
    > at this point.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Me too although I still buy a fair amount of Burgundy and CNP/Rhone
    wines. I buy a bottle or two here and there of interesting stuff
    especially from little known areaas of the Old World. I can't pass up
    bottles of Clos St Hune, Silex, Pur Sang or Huet Vouvray when I can
    find them. I buy very little California wines as I still get a number
    of comp/sample bottles to drink as every day stuff. I still look for
    bargains at different wine sites though and recently found a couple of
    2005 Bordeaux that I couldn't pass on, Clos D'Eglise and Malescot St
    Exupery both for $80 so I bought four bottles each....my only foray
    into 2005 Bordeaux.

  10. #10
    Shaun Eli Guest

    Default Re: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

    Regardless of the store you're taking a credit risk by paying for wine
    for future delivery. Since these aren't public companies and they're
    presumably neither sharing their financial statements with you nor
    providing some sort of financial guarantee (like holding your funds in
    escrow or putting up a bank letter of credit) you always run the risk
    that they take your money and go bankrupt before delivery.

    If you order today on a credit card for wine to be delivered next week
    you can presumably contest the charges with your credit card company,
    but if you pay today for delivery in a year you may have a much
    tougher time...

    Shaun Eli
    www.BrainChampagne.com

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