Thread: Careful who you do pre-arrivals with!

DaleW wrote:
> There have been a lot of concerns about the business practices of
> Cellarbrokers on Long Island. [...]
> If anyone has outstanding orders, I'd contact your cc company
> immediately, some have time limits on contested charges.

I just saw this on WLDG, too, Dale. Yet another concern arises from an
examination of their domain registration data: they have purposefully
chosen to conceal all details about who is behind their business by
privately registering their domain. I can't think of any reason why a
legitimate business would choose to do that.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Jan 5, 11:51�am, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
> DaleW wrote:
> > There have been a lot of concerns about the business practices of
> > Cellarbrokers on Long Island. [...]
> > If anyone has outstanding orders, I'd contact your cc company
> > immediately, some have time limits on contested charges.
>
> I just saw this on WLDG, too, Dale. �Yet another concern arises from an
> examination of their domain registration data: they have purposefully
> chosen to conceal all details about who is behind their business by
> privately registering their domain. �I can't think of any reason why a
> legitimate business would choose to do that.
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

I think more bad business model than intentional scam (at least
originally). They were duly licensed by NYS, with a 3 year license
that started in 2006. That requires a hefty fee and even heftier
surety bond, It also requires a background check.

There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
anymore!).

For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
personal relationship:
Chambers or Sherry Lehmann in NYC
Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
(Scarsdale)
Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)

DaleW wrote:

>
> There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
> distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
> tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
> stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
> able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
> want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
> Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
> Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
> believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
> anymore!).

Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
you, ignore them. The Boston winegeek set have bashed them often enough
to make me wary.

>
> For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
> history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
> personal relationship:
> Chambers or Sherry Lehmann in NYC
> Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
> (Scarsdale)
> Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)

Ditto. Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
orders). PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
well know.

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Jan 5, 12:43�pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
> DaleW wrote:
>
> > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
> > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
> > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
> > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
> > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
> > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
> > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
> > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
> > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
> > anymore!).
>
> Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
> you, ignore them. �The Boston winegeek set have bashed them oftenenough
> to make me wary.
>
>
>
> > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
> > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
> > personal relationship:
> > Chambers or �Sherry Lehmann in NYC
> > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
> > (Scarsdale)
> > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)
>
> Ditto. �Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
> they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
> orders). �PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
> well know.
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
seconds of recieving the e-mail.

In article
<[email protected]>,
"Bi!!" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jan 5, 12:43?pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
> > DaleW wrote:
> >
> > > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
> > > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
> > > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
> > > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
> > > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
> > > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
> > > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
> > > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
> > > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
> > > anymore!).
> >
> > Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
> > you, ignore them. ?The Boston winegeek set have bashed them often enough
> > to make me wary.
> >
> >
> >
> > > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
> > > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
> > > personal relationship:
> > > Chambers or ?Sherry Lehmann in NYC
> > > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
> > > (Scarsdale)
> > > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)
> >
> > Ditto. ?Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
> > they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
> > orders). ?PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
> > well know.
> >
> > Mark Lipton
> >
> > --
> > alt.food.wine FAQ: ?http://winefaq.cwdjr.net
>
> I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
> they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
> mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
> wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
> seconds of recieving the e-mail.

I am still a fan of Wine Library in Springfield NJ. When they send out
specials they have them and if they run out they will backorder them for
you and you still get the same price.

On Jan 5, 4:18�pm, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
> In article
> <d1a829e6-0e04-44c5-b2a3-2bec55fb6...@b41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> �"Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 5, 12:43?pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
> > > DaleW wrote:
>
> > > > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
> > > > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
> > > > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
> > > > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor willbe
> > > > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
> > > > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
> > > > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
> > > > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
> > > > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
> > > > anymore!).
>
> > > Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
> > > you, ignore them. ?The Boston winegeek set have bashed them often enough
> > > to make me wary.
>
> > > > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
> > > > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
> > > > personal relationship:
> > > > Chambers or ?Sherry Lehmann in NYC
> > > > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
> > > > (Scarsdale)
> > > > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)
>
> > > Ditto. ?Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
> > > they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
> > > orders). ?PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
> > > well know.
>
> > > Mark Lipton
>
> > > --
> > > alt.food.wine FAQ: ?http://winefaq.cwdjr.net
>
> > I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
> > they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
> > mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
> > wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
> > seconds of recieving the e-mail.
>
> I am still a fan of Wine Library in Springfield NJ. When they send out
> specials they have them and if they run out they will backorder them for
> you and you still get the same price.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'd certainly feel comfortable with WineLibrary too, in fact I did
have some small #s of '05 Bdx futures there (Barde Haut) that were
delivered. My list was somewhat off the cuff, not intended as
exhaustive.

As to PC, I've probably gotten more "steals" there than all other
retailers combined, especially on Burgs and Germans. But one must be
prepared for a wait. And then there is still the possibility of it not
coming in. In the few cases that happened with me, they've always
offered me an "upgrade" as compensation. But as I get more and more
wine, and economy gets shakier and shakier, I'm less inclined to order
prearrival and trust I'll be happy with offer if something gets
screwed up. I've got a '02 Dujac Combottes on books for almost 3
years, time to start negotiating. Now I just order in-stock items.

In article
<[email protected]>,
DaleW <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jan 5, 4:18?pm, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
> > In article
> > <d1a829e6-0e04-44c5-b2a3-2bec55fb6...@b41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ?"Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > On Jan 5, 12:43?pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
> > > > DaleW wrote:
> >
> > > > > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
> > > > > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
> > > > > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
> > > > > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
> > > > > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
> > > > > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
> > > > > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
> > > > > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
> > > > > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
> > > > > anymore!).
> >
> > > > Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
> > > > you, ignore them. ?The Boston winegeek set have bashed them often enough
> > > > to make me wary.
> >
> > > > > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
> > > > > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
> > > > > personal relationship:
> > > > > Chambers or ?Sherry Lehmann in NYC
> > > > > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
> > > > > (Scarsdale)
> > > > > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)
> >
> > > > Ditto. ?Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
> > > > they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
> > > > orders). ?PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
> > > > well know.
> >
> > > > Mark Lipton
> >
> > > > --
> > > > alt.food.wine FAQ: ?http://winefaq.cwdjr.net
> >
> > > I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
> > > they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
> > > mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
> > > wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
> > > seconds of recieving the e-mail.
> >
> > I am still a fan of Wine Library in Springfield NJ. When they send out
> > specials they have them and if they run out they will backorder them for
> > you and you still get the same price.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I'd certainly feel comfortable with WineLibrary too, in fact I did
> have some small #s of '05 Bdx futures there (Barde Haut) that were
> delivered. My list was somewhat off the cuff, not intended as
> exhaustive.
>
> As to PC, I've probably gotten more "steals" there than all other
> retailers combined, especially on Burgs and Germans. But one must be
> prepared for a wait. And then there is still the possibility of it not
> coming in. In the few cases that happened with me, they've always
> offered me an "upgrade" as compensation. But as I get more and more
> wine, and economy gets shakier and shakier, I'm less inclined to order
> prearrival and trust I'll be happy with offer if something gets
> screwed up. I've got a '02 Dujac Combottes on books for almost 3
> years, time to start negotiating. Now I just order in-stock items.

I've cut back on wine buying for several reasons. The economy certainly
stinks and my income is way down for the last 6 months so not a lot of
available money but also, at my age (61+) buying to hold for 30 years
means I'm likely buying for my kids and they can afford their own wine
at this point.

On Jan 6, 10:47�am, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
> In article
> <138f486e-b946-45fa-8aeb-8d2313dce...@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> �DaleW <Dwmi...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 5, 4:18?pm, Lawrence Leichtman <la...@lleichtman.org> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <d1a829e6-0e04-44c5-b2a3-2bec55fb6...@b41g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > ?"Bi!!" <rvwr...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jan 5, 12:43?pm, Mark Lipton <not...@eudrup.ude> wrote:
> > > > > DaleW wrote:
>
> > > > > > There are other stores that do the same model, post their entire
> > > > > > distributors inventory sheets, with a set markup. The big problem
> > > > > > tends to come when WA or the Spectator list some new hot wine, these
> > > > > > stores list at lowest price in country, but don't have it (nor will be
> > > > > > able to get it). I just ignore listings from Grapes in Ct (I really
> > > > > > want to emphasize this is not Grapes in N, White Plains NY, Daniel
> > > > > > Posner is truly one of the better wine merchants I know), Corporate
> > > > > > Wines in MA, Wine Chateau in NJ (again, not the good store in I
> > > > > > believe St Louis) and Cellarbrokers (well, no need to ignore
> > > > > > anymore!).
>
> > > > > Yeah, I keep seeing those Corporate Wines prices at the top and, like
> > > > > you, ignore them. ?The Boston winegeek set have bashed them oftenenough
> > > > > to make me wary.
>
> > > > > > For me, I mostly restrict prearrivals to a few stores with long
> > > > > > history of following through on deliveries and in most cases a
> > > > > > personal relationship:
> > > > > > Chambers or ?Sherry Lehmann in NYC
> > > > > > Grapes (N. White Plains, formerly Rye), Post (Syosset), and Zachys
> > > > > > (Scarsdale)
> > > > > > Woodland Hills (Los Angeles)
>
> > > > > Ditto. ?Sam's is one of the few I'll trust with prearrivals, and even
> > > > > they have had their problems (witness Jeff Leve's tirades about '05 Bdx
> > > > > orders). ?PC is another with well-documented pre-arrival issues, as you
> > > > > well know.
>
> > > > > Mark Lipton
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > alt.food.wine FAQ: ?http://winefaq.cwdjr.net
>
> > > > I kinda follow the same folks although (futures aside) I find that
> > > > they all do a lot of bait and switch marketing when they send out an e-
> > > > mail with "specials" yet when you call for the special pricing the
> > > > wine is always gone and they try to upsale even if you call within
> > > > seconds of recieving the e-mail.
>
> > > I am still a fan of Wine Library in Springfield NJ. When they send out
> > > specials they have them and if they run out they will backorder them for
> > > you and you still get the same price.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I'd certainly feel comfortable with WineLibrary too, in fact I did
> > have some small #s of '05 Bdx futures there (Barde Haut) that were
> > delivered. My list was somewhat off the cuff, not intended as
> > exhaustive.
>
> > As to PC, I've probably gotten more "steals" there than all other
> > retailers combined, especially on Burgs and Germans. But one must be
> > prepared for a wait. And then there is still the possibility of it not
> > coming in. In the few cases that happened with me, they've always
> > offered me an "upgrade" as compensation. But as I get more and more
> > wine, and economy gets shakier and shakier, I'm less inclined to order
> > prearrival and trust I'll be happy with offer if something gets
> > screwed up. I've got a '02 Dujac Combottes on books for almost 3
> > years, time to start negotiating. Now I just order in-stock items.
>
> I've cut back on wine buying for several reasons. The economy certainly
> stinks and my income is way down for the last 6 months so not a lot of
> available money but also, at my age (61+) buying to hold for 30 years
> means I'm likely buying for my kids and they can afford their own wine
> at this point.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Me too although I still buy a fair amount of Burgundy and CNP/Rhone
wines. I buy a bottle or two here and there of interesting stuff
especially from little known areaas of the Old World. I can't pass up
bottles of Clos St Hune, Silex, Pur Sang or Huet Vouvray when I can
find them. I buy very little California wines as I still get a number
of comp/sample bottles to drink as every day stuff. I still look for
bargains at different wine sites though and recently found a couple of
2005 Bordeaux that I couldn't pass on, Clos D'Eglise and Malescot St
Exupery both for $80 so I bought four bottles each....my only foray
into 2005 Bordeaux.

Regardless of the store you're taking a credit risk by paying for wine
for future delivery. Since these aren't public companies and they're
presumably neither sharing their financial statements with you nor
providing some sort of financial guarantee (like holding your funds in
escrow or putting up a bank letter of credit) you always run the risk
that they take your money and go bankrupt before delivery.

If you order today on a credit card for wine to be delivered next week
you can presumably contest the charges with your credit card company,
but if you pay today for delivery in a year you may have a much
tougher time...

Shaun Eli
www.BrainChampagne.com