Thread: Callaway Estate 1976 Cabernet Sauvignon

"German white oak barrels"?

Please explain to the foreign gentleman.

Cheers

Nils

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
news:2hzJl.8254$[email protected]..
> "German white oak barrels"?
>
> Please explain to the foreign gentleman.
>
> Cheers
>
From Wiki:
Quercus alba, the White Oak, is one of the pre-eminent hardwoods of eastern
North America. It is a long-lived oak in the family Fagaceae, native to
eastern North America
White Oaks have cellular structures called tyloses. Tyloses give the wood a
closed cellular structure, which does not allow water to pass. Tyloses are
cell ingrowths of living wood parenchyma into the cavities of xylem
conducting cells. The white oaks, with tyloses, are used in making wine and
whiskey barrels as well as outdoor furniture. Red Oaks do not have the
tyloses, thus white oak barrels are used in wine and whiskey production to
prevent leaking, which would be the result of using red oaks. It has been
used for construction, shipbuilding, cooperage, agricultural implements, and
interior finish of houses.[2]

I have no idea why they speak of German white oak, however...

Anders

On Apr 28, 3:39*am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
<nils.lindg...@NOTAVALIDADRESS.se> wrote:
> "German white oak barrels"?
>
> Please explain to the foreign gentleman.

I answered you last night, but the post never appeared, so I will try
again. Anders gave correct information. I do have information from an
interview with Eli Callaway by Robert Benson in "Great Winemakers of
California " with a copyright of 1977. The book likely is long out of
print.Callaway states that they use German white oak from trees grown
on Spessart mountian which is the highest mountain in Germany that
grows oak.They selected this oak because it grows slower than anywhere
in Europe, Therefore the oak is harder and after steam leaching it
imparts less of its tannin character to the wine. The 60 gallon
barrels were specially made in Germany for Callaway.

"cwdjrxyz" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
news:[email protected]...
On Apr 28, 3:39 am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
<nils.lindg...@NOTAVALIDADRESS.se> wrote:
> "German white oak barrels"?
>
> Please explain to the foreign gentleman.

>I answered you last night, but the post never appeared, so I will try
>again. Anders gave correct information. I do have information from an
>interview with Eli Callaway by Robert Benson in "Great Winemakers of
>California " with a copyright of 1977. The book likely is long out of
>print.Callaway states that they use German white oak from trees grown
>on Spessart mountian which is the highest mountain in Germany that
>grows oak.

Interesting.. I see that the Spessart rises to near 600m (1920feet) which is
not all that high. Spessart is a nature park with some old sections with up
to 400 year old oaks.
There is a small problem, however, no white oak there... It is an American
species, you know, not grown in Europe...
Anders

On Apr 28, 4:36*pm, "Anders Tørneskog" <sredna.goksen...@i2c.ten>
wrote:
> "cwdjrxyz" <spamtr...@cwdjr.info> skrev i meldingnews:[email protected]...
> On Apr 28, 3:39 am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
>
> <nils.lindg...@NOTAVALIDADRESS.se> wrote:
> > "German white oak barrels"?
>
> > Please explain to the foreign gentleman.
> >I answered you last night, but the post never appeared, so I will try
> >again. Anders gave correct information. I do have information from an
> >interview with Eli Callaway by Robert Benson in "Great Winemakers of
> >California " with a copyright of 1977. The book likely is long out of
> >print.Callaway states that they use German white oak from trees grown
> >on Spessart mountian *which is the highest mountain in Germany that
> >grows oak.
>
> Interesting.. I see that the Spessart rises to near 600m (1920feet) whichis
> not all that high. *Spessart is a nature park with some old sections with up
> to 400 year old oaks.
> There is a small problem, however, no white oak there... *It is an American
> species, you know, not grown in Europe..

Eli Callaway called it German white oak both on the bottle back label
and in an interview. Perhaps he just means the color of the wood. In
any event one should use the proper scientific name to avoid confusion
of this sort.

On Apr 28, 4:36*pm, "Anders Tørneskog" <sredna.goksen...@i2c.ten>
wrote:
> "cwdjrxyz" <spamtr...@cwdjr.info> skrev i meldingnews:[email protected]...
> On Apr 28, 3:39 am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
>
> <nils.lindg...@NOTAVALIDADRESS.se> wrote:
> > "German white oak barrels"?
>
> > Please explain to the foreign gentleman.
> >I answered you last night, but the post never appeared, so I will try
> >again. Anders gave correct information. I do have information from an
> >interview with Eli Callaway by Robert Benson in "Great Winemakers of
> >California " with a copyright of 1977. The book likely is long out of
> >print.Callaway states that they use German white oak from trees grown
> >on Spessart mountian *which is the highest mountain in Germany that
> >grows oak.
>
> Interesting.. I see that the Spessart rises to near 600m (1920feet) whichis
> not all that high. *Spessart is a nature park with some old sections with up
> to 400 year old oaks.
> There is a small problem, however, no white oak there... *It is an American
> species, you know, not grown in Europe...
> Anders

Here we go again. I responded to you several hours ago, but the
message has not shown up. Perhaps this follow up will appear soon.

There is a reference to German white oak both on the back label and in
the interview with Eli Callaway I mentioned. Of course use of proper
scientific names for the oak species would prevent any confusion. When
I go to a home improvement store here, I usually see only white oak
and red oak boards for sale. The white oak boards are fairly close to
white in color with a bit of yellow,and the red oak has much russet
color. I think many people take the term red or white oak to mean the
color of the oak wood and not a specific oak tree with a scientific
name. This may have been what Eli Callaway was thinking. Unless he
lived to an exceptionally old age, one likely never could find out .

On Apr 28, 4:36*pm, "Anders Tørneskog" <sredna.goksen...@i2c.ten>
wrote:
> "cwdjrxyz" <spamtr...@cwdjr.info> skrev i meldingnews:[email protected]...
> On Apr 28, 3:39 am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
>
> <nils.lindg...@NOTAVALIDADRESS.se> wrote:
> > "German white oak barrels"?
>
> > Please explain to the foreign gentleman.
> >I answered you last night, but the post never appeared, so I will try
> >again. Anders gave correct information. I do have information from an
> >interview with Eli Callaway by Robert Benson in "Great Winemakers of
> >California " with a copyright of 1977. The book likely is long out of
> >print.Callaway states that they use German white oak from trees grown
> >on Spessart mountian *which is the highest mountain in Germany that
> >grows oak.
>
> Interesting.. I see that the Spessart rises to near 600m (1920feet) whichis
> not all that high. *Spessart is a nature park with some old sections with up
> to 400 year old oaks.
> There is a small problem, however, no white oak there... *It is an American
> species, you know, not grown in Europe...
> Anders

Here we go again. I responded to you several hours ago, but the
message has not shown up. Perhaps this follow up will appear soon. If
extra old posts appear in the future, you will know what happened.

There is a reference to German white oak both on the back label and in
the interview with Eli Callaway I mentioned. Of course use of proper
scientific names for the oak species would prevent any confusion. When
I go to a home improvement store here, I usually see only white oak
and red oak boards for sale. The white oak boards are fairly close to
white in color with a bit of yellow,and the red oak has much russet
color. I think many people take the term red or white oak to mean the
color of the oak wood and not a specific oak tree with a scientific
name. This may have been what Eli Callaway was thinking. Unless he has
lived to an exceptionally old age, one likely never could find out
exactly what he had in mind when he associated the words German and
white oak..

On Apr 28, 4:36*pm, "Anders Tørneskog" <sredna.goksen...@i2c.ten>
wrote:
> "cwdjrxyz" <spamtr...@cwdjr.info> skrev i meldingnews:[email protected]...
> On Apr 28, 3:39 am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
>
> <nils.lindg...@NOTAVALIDADRESS.se> wrote:
> > "German white oak barrels"?
>
> > Please explain to the foreign gentleman.
> >I answered you last night, but the post never appeared, so I will try
> >again. Anders gave correct information. I do have information from an
> >interview with Eli Callaway by Robert Benson in "Great Winemakers of
> >California " with a copyright of 1977. The book likely is long out of
> >print.Callaway states that they use German white oak from trees grown
> >on Spessart mountian *which is the highest mountain in Germany that
> >grows oak.
>
> Interesting.. I see that the Spessart rises to near 600m (1920feet) whichis
> not all that high. *Spessart is a nature park with some old sections with up
> to 400 year old oaks.
> There is a small problem, however, no white oak there... *It is an American
> species, you know, not grown in Europe...
> Anders

I kave posted several times, but the post do not appear. If they all
suddenly appear, you know what happeded.

I don't know what Eli Callaway had in mind in the 1977 interview when
he associated German with white oak. Considering he was retired then,
we likely will never know for sure unless he is still alive at an
exceptionally old age. German white oak was also used on the back
label of the wine bottle.

When I go to home improvement stores, I usually see white oak, which
is fairly light in color and red oak which has much russet in the
color. However white oak is not specific as there are several
variations of white oak trees. There are many kinds of oak trees in
the US including white oaks, red oaks, pin oaks, post oaks, black
oaks, etc. I think many people associate the color of the wood with
the terms white oak and red oak rather than with a specific variety.
I think this may be what Callaway did. I think the problem, if any, is
that a specific complete scientific names were not used.A

cwdjrxyz wrote:

> I don't know what Eli Callaway had in mind in the 1977 interview when
> he associated German with white oak. Considering he was retired then,
> we likely will never know for sure unless he is still alive at an
> exceptionally old age. German white oak was also used on the back
> label of the wine bottle.

Ely Callaway, the eponymous founder of Callaway Golf as well as the
winery, died in 2001, so I am afraid that no clarification will come
from that source. I think that your explanation sounds reasonable,
though. Perhaps if his company had made woods from wood instead of
metal, he wouldn't have made that mistake ;-)

Mark Lipton
(satisfied owner of a set of Callaway Steelhead "woods")

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

"cwdjrxyz" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
news:[email protected]...

>When I go to home improvement stores, I usually see white oak, which
>is fairly light in color and red oak which has much russet in the
>color. However white oak is not specific as there are several
>variations of white oak trees. There are many kinds of oak trees in
>the US including white oaks, red oaks, pin oaks, post oaks, black
>oaks, etc. I think many people associate the color of the wood with
>the terms white oak and red oak rather than with a specific variety.
>I think this may be what Callaway did. I think the problem, if any, is
>that a specific complete scientific names were not used.A

I think you are right. Looking around, I found this page
http://www.diwinetaste.com/dwt/en2004046.php

and you'll see a discussion of the various oak woods (Types and
Characteristics of Cask's Wood)

Anders

cwdjrxyz wrote:


> Unfortunately many of the better old vineyards are now gone due to
> commercial development, and some of the more recently made wines from
> the region are mainly for the tourist trade.

Most of the old vines that I'm aware of are still there. Temecula has
very strict ordinances to protect the wine industry there. The city has
grown considerably the past 15 years or so but the vines seem to be
protected from encroachment. There are now a couple dozen wineries in
the region and some do produce very nice wines. Favorites are Stewert
Cellars, Dolfia (sp), Footprint and Hart. Theres several lousy tourist
wineries that sell mostly swill too!

Miles wrote:
> cwdjrxyz wrote:
>
>
>> Unfortunately many of the better old vineyards are now gone due to
>> commercial development, and some of the more recently made wines from
>> the region are mainly for the tourist trade.
>
> Most of the old vines that I'm aware of are still there. Temecula has
> very strict ordinances to protect the wine industry there. The city has
> grown considerably the past 15 years or so but the vines seem to be
> protected from encroachment. There are now a couple dozen wineries in
> the region and some do produce very nice wines. Favorites are Stewert
> Cellars, Dolfia (sp), Footprint and Hart. Theres several lousy tourist
> wineries that sell mostly swill too!

The glassy-winged sharpshooter did take a toll on Temecula's wineries,
though, IIRC in the early '90s. By now, I am sure that most have
recovered (whatever happened to those bugs BTW? Did they get eaten by
Medflies or something? :P) but there were some pretty lean years for
them and not a few people getting out of the business altogether.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mark Lipton wrote:

> The glassy-winged sharpshooter did take a toll on Temecula's wineries,
> though, IIRC in the early '90s. By now, I am sure that most have
> recovered (whatever happened to those bugs BTW? Did they get eaten by
> Medflies or something? :P) but there were some pretty lean years for
> them and not a few people getting out of the business altogether.

Ya, the sharpshooter took a toll just about everywhere. Still,
Temecula's wine industry has really grown the past 10 years. New
wineries have opened up every year. I was there last November and saw a
couple more under construction. It's a fun place to go tasting but only
off season, mid-week on a rainy day. It's proximity to San Diego has
made the area a tourist attraction and thus the large scale low end
wines at high prices. Several somewhat hidden smaller wineries have
cropped up and they seem to cater to wine lovers rather than tourists.