Thread: OT cat biting!

In article <[email protected]>,
"Cheri" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]..
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> > On 7/8/2012 10:28 AM, Cheri wrote:
> >
> >> It'd work if you added a little vinegar to the bottle.
> >>
> >
> > Cat's hate the sudden surprise of it, whether it's plain water or
> > something else.
> >
> > Susan
>
>
> I know. I used to have a cat years ago that insisted on jumping on the
> screen door and hanging there, so a few good squirts with a bit of vinegar
> water took care of it, works on my dog too. The lady that writes pet advice
> in the Stockton Record recommends it, so it couldn't be all that bad. :-)
>
> Cheri

No way to verify that. When you go to the Stockton Record, there is no
record, just a banner that says,
"Welcome Entrepreneurs and Small Business Owners!"

Does the lady have a name, post credentials, or have a contact site?

--
E Pluribus Unum

If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us a candidate.

Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Colt T) wrote:

> Being a Christian I've never seen any ghosts or ufos, both ghosts and
> aliens are really demons.

Good luck with that, but then it is faith, isn't it?

--
E Pluribus Unum

If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us a candidate.

Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>

In article <[email protected]>,
Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 16:56:19 -0400, [email protected] (Colt T) wrote:
>
> >Being a Christian I've never seen any ghosts or ufos, both ghosts and
> >aliens are really demons.
>
> And demons and goods, of course, are just figments of the imaginations
> of those who choose not to live in reality.

Well said.
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d & e; metformin 2000mg
> --
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (ADA Standards of Medical Care in Diabetes
> 2012)
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ (Dubrovnik, also known as Ragusa)

--
E Pluribus Unum

If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us a candidate.

Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>

In article <[email protected]>,
Bjørn Steensrud <[email protected]> wrote:

> Alan S wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 16:56:19 -0400, [email protected] (Colt T) wrote:
> >
> >>Being a Christian I've never seen any ghosts or ufos, both ghosts and
> >>aliens are really demons.
> >
> > And demons and goods, of course, are just figments of the imaginations
> > of those who choose not to live in reality.
> >
> > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> > d & e; metformin 2000mg
>
> From a story I read a while back:
>
> B: Doesn't an atheist believe in anything?
> A: We believe that what we observe with senses and instrument is reality.
> B: Doesn't everyone?
> A: No, in Hinduism, for example, what we observe is Maya - illusion.

Or shadows on a wall, according to Plato.

--
E Pluribus Unum

If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us a candidate.

Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>

In article <jta510$gno$[email protected]>,
"Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Billy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]u...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] (Colt T) wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe your house is haunted, dogs and cats can tell.
> > What kind of specters have you had dealings with? Did you seek
> > professional help?
> >
> > I made an inquiry over at rec.pets.cats.health+behav , and it was their
> > opinion that it is some form of communication. Now all you have to do is
> > figure out what.
> >
>
> Thanks!

You are most welcome.

--
E Pluribus Unum

If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us a candidate.

Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>

"Billy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]u...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Susan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> On 7/7/2012 8:00 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> > this should be fun
>>
>> But it's not funny, cat bites are extremely dangerous.
>>
>> I know two people who ended up hospitalized on IV antibiotics after cat
>> bites. Just takes one breaking the skin.
>>
>> I'd use a water spray mister to discourage it every single time it
>> happens.
>>
>> Susan
>
> Seems a bit sever to me, if they aren't breaking the skin. The only time
> my biting cat (Ginger) bloodied me was when she jumped up on the bed,
> and didn't realize that my arm was there. To be fair, I was on 3 blood
> thinners at the time.
>
> Julie's cat seems more like it want to participate in the family, either
> by playing too, advising against certain behaviors, or just being
> affectionate. Ginger put her teeth on me today while I was petting her,
> and there was nothing aggressive about it.
>
> If you truly have an aggressive cat, as opposed to a cat that doesn't
> have your sense of civility, I'd probably seek professional advice, or
> put it down for fear of a law suit.

Jazzy is very gentle. Not aggressive at all. She is a very good mom.

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/11/2012 12:30 AM, Billy wrote:

> Seems a bit sever to me, if they aren't breaking the skin. The only time
> my biting cat (Ginger) bloodied me was when she jumped up on the bed,
> and didn't realize that my arm was there. To be fair, I was on 3 blood
> thinners at the time.

Severe? It rarely touches the cat, just gets their attention and makes
them stop what they're doing.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/11/2012 12:47 AM, Billy wrote:

> Ron Hines DVM PhD
> <http://www.2ndchance.info/aggressivecat.htm>
> said that, "punishment never works in curbing aggression in cats. It
> simply makes the problem worse. Your cat will become fearful or turn its
> resentment toward you and the other cats. Instead, simply withdraw your
> affection as soon as an incident occurs. Cats quickly learn that life
> suddenly got more boring after they became aggressive."
>
> But Julie's cat isn't drawing blood. Biting in cats, from many sources,
> doesn't mean aggression. If your cats has several incidents where it
> draws blood, you have some hard decisions to make, but that's not
> Julie's problem.
>

Julie's cat may not have drawn blood yet, but it's a frequent biter and
cat bits are dangerous.

The sprayer is not punishment, it's distraction and aversive, but not
punitive.

Susan

"Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 7/11/2012 12:47 AM, Billy wrote:
>
>> Ron Hines DVM PhD
>> <http://www.2ndchance.info/aggressivecat.htm>
>> said that, "punishment never works in curbing aggression in cats. It
>> simply makes the problem worse. Your cat will become fearful or turn its
>> resentment toward you and the other cats. Instead, simply withdraw your
>> affection as soon as an incident occurs. Cats quickly learn that life
>> suddenly got more boring after they became aggressive."
>>
>> But Julie's cat isn't drawing blood. Biting in cats, from many sources,
>> doesn't mean aggression. If your cats has several incidents where it
>> draws blood, you have some hard decisions to make, but that's not
>> Julie's problem.
>>
>
> Julie's cat may not have drawn blood yet, but it's a frequent biter and
> cat bits are dangerous.
>
> The sprayer is not punishment, it's distraction and aversive, but not
> punitive.
>
> Susan

Head, brick, wall. LOL

Cheri

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/11/2012 11:36 AM, Cheri wrote:

> Head, brick, wall. LOL
>

Feels so good to stop!

Susan

"Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 7/11/2012 12:47 AM, Billy wrote:
>
>> Ron Hines DVM PhD
>> <http://www.2ndchance.info/aggressivecat.htm>
>> said that, "punishment never works in curbing aggression in cats. It
>> simply makes the problem worse. Your cat will become fearful or turn its
>> resentment toward you and the other cats. Instead, simply withdraw your
>> affection as soon as an incident occurs. Cats quickly learn that life
>> suddenly got more boring after they became aggressive."
>>
>> But Julie's cat isn't drawing blood. Biting in cats, from many sources,
>> doesn't mean aggression. If your cats has several incidents where it
>> draws blood, you have some hard decisions to make, but that's not
>> Julie's problem.
>>
>
> Julie's cat may not have drawn blood yet, but it's a frequent biter and
> cat bits are dangerous.
>
> The sprayer is not punishment, it's distraction and aversive, but not
> punitive.

She is not a frequent biter and she hasn't done it since I posted this. I
don't want to distract her. She is obviously trying to tell us something.

"Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 7/11/2012 11:36 AM, Cheri wrote:
>
>> Head, brick, wall. LOL
>>
>
> Feels so good to stop!
>
> Susan



Uh huh :-)

Cheri

In article <[email protected]>,
Susan <[email protected]> wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 7/11/2012 12:47 AM, Billy wrote:
>
> > Ron Hines DVM PhD
> > <http://www.2ndchance.info/aggressivecat.htm>
> > said that, "punishment never works in curbing aggression in cats. It
> > simply makes the problem worse. Your cat will become fearful or turn its
> > resentment toward you and the other cats. Instead, simply withdraw your
> > affection as soon as an incident occurs. Cats quickly learn that life
> > suddenly got more boring after they became aggressive."
> >
> > But Julie's cat isn't drawing blood. Biting in cats, from many sources,
> > doesn't mean aggression. If your cats has several incidents where it
> > draws blood, you have some hard decisions to make, but that's not
> > Julie's problem.
> >
>
> Julie's cat may not have drawn blood yet, but it's a frequent biter and
> cat bits are dangerous.
>
> The sprayer is not punishment, it's distraction and aversive, but not
> punitive.
>
> Susan

I agree that cats can be dangerous. I was domesticating a feral cat when
he put his fangs through my cowboy boots. I showed him who was boss, he
was, at least when it came to getting picked up. Other than that, he was
a great cat.

Thing is, is putting teeth on you, biting? A number of people, myself
included, don't believe so. In biting, I would expect pain, and some
aggressiveness.

As for the sprayer, I know I wouldn't want it used on me. IF the cat is
trying to communicate its concerns, or playfulness, I would see it as
detrimental to the relationship, but that's just me.

I guess this is a problem with no solution that makes everyone happy.
Just approach it as humanely as you can.

--
E Pluribus Unum

If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us a candidate.

Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>

In article <[email protected]>,
"Cheri" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Billy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]u...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Cheri" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> "Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:jtcs8n$uab$[email protected]..
> >> >
> >> > "Cheri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[email protected]..
> >> >> "Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> news:jtatdd$8f0$[email protected]..
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >>> news:[email protected]..
> >> >>>> x-no-archive: yes
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On 7/7/2012 8:00 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> this should be fun
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> But it's not funny, cat bites are extremely dangerous.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I know two people who ended up hospitalized on IV antibiotics after
> >> >>>> cat
> >> >>>> bites. Just takes one breaking the skin.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I'd use a water spray mister to discourage it every single time it
> >> >>>> happens.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That would never work. They both love water. They would like that.
> >> >>
> >> >> It'd work if you added a little vinegar to the bottle.
> >> >
> >> > That would be cruel! And stinky.
> >>
> >> No, it's not...either one. Professional people use it.
> >>
> >> Cheri
> >
> > On other professional people?
>
> No, on people that allow their cats to bite without correcting the behavior,
> only then they use full strength ammonia.
>
> Cheri

Even tongue in cheek, that sounds a sadistic. In any event, for the
vinegar to be effective it would have to be done during an attack, not 5
min., later when there would be no connecting the biting to the response.

I think that we've gotten lost in semantics.

The dictionary definition of bite is:

1 (of a person or animal) use the teeth to cut into something in order
to eat it : Rosa bit into a cupcake | [ trans. ] he bit a mouthful from
the sandwich.
€ [ trans. ] (of an animal or a person) use the teeth in order to
inflict injury on : she had bitten, scratched, and kicked her assailant.
€ [ trans. ] (of a snake, insect, or arachnid) wound with a sting,
pincers, or fangs : getting bitten by mosquitoes.

This isn't the behavior that is being discussed. We are talking about
the laying on of teeth, no pain, no blood, no anger.

Damn, I went back and read Julie's post, and she does report pain. That
isn't my situation. Julie needs to do something immediately upon being
biten, push the cat away if possible, or give it a light smack, or even
yell at it until you can unholster your vinegar bottle. That way there
is a connection between stimulation and response. Then leave the cat
alone to think about its crime. Latter, be sure to pick it up and give
it love, which is why you have a pet.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goV8g3SakaM>

--
E Pluribus Unum

If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us a candidate.

Welcome to the New America.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>

In article <jtk8sr$hv3$[email protected]>, "Julie Bove" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]..
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> > On 7/11/2012 12:47 AM, Billy wrote:
> >
> >> Ron Hines DVM PhD
> >> <http://www.2ndchance.info/aggressivecat.htm>
> >> said that, "punishment never works in curbing aggression in cats. It
> >> simply makes the problem worse. Your cat will become fearful or turn its
> >> resentment toward you and the other cats. Instead, simply withdraw your
> >> affection as soon as an incident occurs. Cats quickly learn that life
> >> suddenly got more boring after they became aggressive."
> >>
> >> But Julie's cat isn't drawing blood. Biting in cats, from many sources,
> >> doesn't mean aggression. If your cats has several incidents where it
> >> draws blood, you have some hard decisions to make, but that's not
> >> Julie's problem.
> >>
> >
> > Julie's cat may not have drawn blood yet, but it's a frequent biter and
> > cat bits are dangerous.
> >
> > The sprayer is not punishment, it's distraction and aversive, but not
> > punitive.
>
> She is not a frequent biter and she hasn't done it since I posted this.

see, she read this thread and doesn't want to be sprayed with a vinegar/water
squirt gun


I
> don't want to distract her. She is obviously trying to tell us something.

duh!

"Billy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]u...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Susan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> On 7/11/2012 12:47 AM, Billy wrote:
>>
>> > Ron Hines DVM PhD
>> > <http://www.2ndchance.info/aggressivecat.htm>
>> > said that, "punishment never works in curbing aggression in cats. It
>> > simply makes the problem worse. Your cat will become fearful or turn
>> > its
>> > resentment toward you and the other cats. Instead, simply withdraw your
>> > affection as soon as an incident occurs. Cats quickly learn that life
>> > suddenly got more boring after they became aggressive."
>> >
>> > But Julie's cat isn't drawing blood. Biting in cats, from many sources,
>> > doesn't mean aggression. If your cats has several incidents where it
>> > draws blood, you have some hard decisions to make, but that's not
>> > Julie's problem.
>> >
>>
>> Julie's cat may not have drawn blood yet, but it's a frequent biter and
>> cat bits are dangerous.
>>
>> The sprayer is not punishment, it's distraction and aversive, but not
>> punitive.
>>
>> Susan
>
> I agree that cats can be dangerous. I was domesticating a feral cat when
> he put his fangs through my cowboy boots. I showed him who was boss, he
> was, at least when it came to getting picked up. Other than that, he was
> a great cat.
>
> Thing is, is putting teeth on you, biting? A number of people, myself
> included, don't believe so. In biting, I would expect pain, and some
> aggressiveness.
>
> As for the sprayer, I know I wouldn't want it used on me. IF the cat is
> trying to communicate its concerns, or playfulness, I would see it as
> detrimental to the relationship, but that's just me.
>
> I guess this is a problem with no solution that makes everyone happy.
> Just approach it as humanely as you can.

That's me too. I would never do it. Jazzy responds very well to talking to
her. She understands.

"Billy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]u...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Cheri" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Billy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]u...
>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>> > "Cheri" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> news:jtcs8n$uab$[email protected]..
>> >> >
>> >> > "Cheri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> > news:[email protected]..
>> >> >> "Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:jtatdd$8f0$[email protected]..
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >>> news:[email protected]..
>> >> >>>> x-no-archive: yes
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On 7/7/2012 8:00 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> this should be fun
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> But it's not funny, cat bites are extremely dangerous.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I know two people who ended up hospitalized on IV antibiotics
>> >> >>>> after
>> >> >>>> cat
>> >> >>>> bites. Just takes one breaking the skin.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I'd use a water spray mister to discourage it every single time
>> >> >>>> it
>> >> >>>> happens.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> That would never work. They both love water. They would like
>> >> >>> that.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It'd work if you added a little vinegar to the bottle.
>> >> >
>> >> > That would be cruel! And stinky.
>> >>
>> >> No, it's not...either one. Professional people use it.
>> >>
>> >> Cheri
>> >
>> > On other professional people?
>>
>> No, on people that allow their cats to bite without correcting the
>> behavior,
>> only then they use full strength ammonia.
>>
>> Cheri
>
> Even tongue in cheek, that sounds a sadistic. In any event, for the
> vinegar to be effective it would have to be done during an attack, not 5
> min., later when there would be no connecting the biting to the response.
>
> I think that we've gotten lost in semantics.
>
> The dictionary definition of bite is:
>
> 1 (of a person or animal) use the teeth to cut into something in order
> to eat it : Rosa bit into a cupcake | [ trans. ] he bit a mouthful from
> the sandwich.
> ? [ trans. ] (of an animal or a person) use the teeth in order to
> inflict injury on : she had bitten, scratched, and kicked her assailant.
> ? [ trans. ] (of a snake, insect, or arachnid) wound with a sting,
> pincers, or fangs : getting bitten by mosquitoes.
>
> This isn't the behavior that is being discussed. We are talking about
> the laying on of teeth, no pain, no blood, no anger.
>
> Damn, I went back and read Julie's post, and she does report pain. That
> isn't my situation. Julie needs to do something immediately upon being
> biten, push the cat away if possible, or give it a light smack, or even
> yell at it until you can unholster your vinegar bottle. That way there
> is a connection between stimulation and response. Then leave the cat
> alone to think about its crime. Latter, be sure to pick it up and give
> it love, which is why you have a pet.
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goV8g3SakaM>
>
> --
> E Pluribus Unum
>
> If God wanted us to vote, he would have given us a candidate.
>
> Welcome to the New America.
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg>

Perhaps I should not have used the word bite. Because of where she is doing
it on our bodies, we can not see exactly what she is doing. I do think that
it hurts. Not a lot but enough to get my attention. Angela thinks it
tickles. Which is why it makes her laugh. I just assume she is pressing
her teeth into my elbow or in the one case my lower leg. It appears that
she is trying to move my arm or leg much like she did to her daughter when
she was young. Only then she picked her up by the scruff of the neck. That
seems to be what she is trying to do to us and she has a look of great
concern in her eyes when she is doing it. Clearly there is no aggression
whatever. It isn't an attack. So in my mind, spraying or any form of
punishment would certainly be the wrong thing to do. I was just trying to
figure out what she thought the problem was. But I guess I will never know.

My rule of thumb is never do to an animal what you wouldn't do to a
child. I think if we sprayed our naughty children with vinegar we might
be in a bit of trouble with child services. Our animals are our
children, do what works for kids. But one has to be consistent. Every
time a child or animal does something unacceptable, remove them
physically from the situation with a firm word. Even very young children
and young animals learn very quickly, neither are stupid. Just because a
professional does something, doesn't mean it's right.

"Ozgirl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> My rule of thumb is never do to an animal what you wouldn't do to a child.
> I think if we sprayed our naughty children with vinegar we might be in a
> bit of trouble with child services. Our animals are our children, do what
> works for kids. But one has to be consistent. Every time a child or animal
> does something unacceptable, remove them physically from the situation
> with a firm word. Even very young children and young animals learn very
> quickly, neither are stupid. Just because a professional does something,
> doesn't mean it's right.

Indeed! I learned early on that spraying with water was a stupid thing to
do. I think I read it in a cat book or something. I sprayed Maui when she
was a very small kitten. That cat could be very aggressive and spraying her
with water was one way for me to wind up being a bloody mess! Never again.
I also stupidly bathed her a lot when she was young. Alas she did need the
baths when she got older and couldn't make it to the litter box. By then
she did tolerate them more.

I learned what I had to do with her was remain calm and explain to her what
she needed to do or not do. And give her lots of praise when she did the
right thing.

Of the two cats we have now, Ballerina causes more trouble simply
because...well...I think she is kind of stupid. Or maybe better words would
be daring or curious. She just does things she shouldn't do. She has
broken things, fallen, knocked things down. All because she goes where she
shouldn't. She has also almost gotten outside a few times. That seems to
be her new goal. And because she is sort of feral, she seems to respond
better to her mom than she does to us. But because she is big now, (well
small for a cat but pretty much full grown), she doesn't listen to mom very
often. She does respond very well to food and is easily distracted. All I
have to do is say the word "tuna" and she is looking for the food.

Jazzy does respond quite well to talking to. She has tried to scratch my
new computer chair. I know she really wants to do it. But I tell her not
to and she stops and then gets petted.

Overall they are very good cats.