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Thread: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

  1. #1
    DMJoshi Guest

    Default Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?


  2. #2
    [email protected] | Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Jan 10, 11:39*pm, DMJoshi <josh...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > Has any one read
    >
    > http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/foods.html
    >
    > ?


    I haven't read this specifically until just now. Bacon and other
    nitrate/nitrite
    reserved food speed the progression of T2 DM. So Bacon is NOT good
    choice in the longer term.

    I am starting to suspect approaching T2 DM on the mild end has
    different
    but effective approaches. I've liked and used a low carb diet. But I
    suspect
    a bit more carbs are passable IF the over all calorie level is pretty
    minimal.

    Beef may not too good. There is some issue as to insulin and area
    under
    the curve with glucose level. I don't quite understand the issue.
    It certainly has more iron (not too good a thing unless you've been
    bleeding)
    than the other meats.

    I do agree with the approach on fats though lots low carb veggies are
    vital.
    Depending on the person, I suspect beans are better than the site
    allows
    as long as one keeps the dose to a cup of cooked beans. Check your
    BG after such a meal.

  3. #3
    DMJoshi Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Jan 11, 9:04*am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
    <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > On Jan 10, 11:39*pm, DMJoshi <josh...@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Has any one read

    >
    > >http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/foods.html

    >
    > > ?

    >
    > I haven't read this specifically until just now. Bacon and other
    > nitrate/nitrite
    > reserved food speed the progression of T2 DM. So Bacon is NOT good
    > choice in the longer term.
    >
    > I am starting to suspect approaching T2 DM on the mild end has
    > different
    > but effective approaches. I've liked and used a low carb diet. But I
    > suspect
    > a bit more carbs are passable IF the over all calorie level is pretty
    > minimal.
    >
    > Beef may not too good. There is some issue as to insulin and area
    > under
    > the curve with glucose level. I don't quite understand the issue.
    > It certainly has more iron (not too good a thing unless you've been
    > bleeding)
    > than the other meats.
    >
    > I do agree with the approach on fats though lots low carb veggies are
    > vital.
    > Depending on the person, I suspect beans are better than the site
    > allows
    > as long as one keeps the dose to a cup of cooked beans. Check your
    > BG after such a meal.


    I was am on Metformin for over 3 years now.

    I am mostly Vegitarian, though have not a rigid one.

    Like Coconut Kernel very much but had read that it is not Good. Was
    checking if de-oiled coconut is OK and came across this link. Have
    taken a print out to get it checked with Dietician at my surgery.

    Have stopped taking butter and Full-Fat Yogurt and cheese.

    These things being recommended surprised me a bit.

    For cooking Vegetables I use what sells as Vegetable Oil which I
    believe is mostly rapeseed oil. They say Olive oil is the best but
    then it is always expensive and I will have get used to its taste.

    Being Vegetarian have to depend on bread. Do not eat white flour bread
    though.


  4. #4
    [email protected] | Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Jan 11, 2:04*am, DMJoshi <josh...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > On Jan 11, 9:04*am, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > On Jan 10, 11:39*pm, DMJoshi <josh...@gmail.com> wrote:

    >
    > > > Has any one read

    >
    > > >http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/foods.html

    >
    > > > ?

    >
    > > I haven't read this specifically until just now. Bacon and other
    > > nitrate/nitrite
    > > reserved food speed the progression of T2 DM. So Bacon is NOT good
    > > choice in the longer term.

    >
    > > I am starting to suspect approaching T2 DM on the mild end has
    > > different
    > > but effective approaches. I've liked and used a low carb diet. But I
    > > suspect
    > > a bit more carbs are passable IF the over all calorie level is pretty
    > > minimal.

    >
    > > Beef may not too good. There is some issue as to insulin and area
    > > under
    > > the curve with glucose level. I don't quite understand the issue.
    > > It certainly has more iron (not too good a thing unless you've been
    > > bleeding)
    > > than the other meats.

    >
    > > I do agree with the approach on fats though lots low carb veggies are
    > > vital.
    > > Depending on the person, I suspect beans are better than the site
    > > allows
    > > as long as one keeps the dose to a cup of cooked beans. Check your
    > > BG after such a meal.

    >
    > I was am on Metformin for over 3 years now.
    >
    > I am mostly Vegitarian, though have not a rigid one.
    >
    > Like Coconut Kernel very much but had read that it is not Good. Was
    > checking if de-oiled coconut is OK and came across this link. Have
    > taken a print out to get it checked with Dietician at my surgery.
    >
    > Have stopped taking butter and Full-Fat Yogurt and cheese.
    >
    > These things being recommended surprised me a bit.
    >
    > For cooking Vegetables I use what sells as Vegetable Oil which I
    > believe is mostly rapeseed oil. They say Olive oil is the best but
    > then it is always expensive and I will have get used to its taste.
    >
    > Being Vegetarian have to depend on bread. Do not eat white flour bread
    > though.


    Given that butter at least commerical butter is loaded with AGEs
    butter isn't ideal in the contex of DM.

    I eat full fat only way diary products I still. Cheese is better than
    bread in not raising the BG and needing insulin.

    Find "Heart Scan Blog" by Doctor Davies and read it.
    It should change your mind of the supposed merit of wheat and
    grains. With DM or preDM the concern is heart and vascular disease,
    lipids level are altered, glucose levels vary widely which damages
    tissues, oxidative stress damages lipids and microcirculation
    function.

    For some here silymarin (an heb derived material) is claimed to help
    rather like metformin.
    Exercise helps though it needs to be every couple of days and
    vigorous.

    It depends what you have left in the way of beta cells/insulin output.
    Perhaps you can get by with diet and exercise.
    The drug is one of the safer ones though it has its issues. It impairs
    vitamin B-12 uptake.
    For some going to insulin is the smart move.

    Hang around here and ask and look at the archive.
    Learn to read/use Pubmed. Just Google to find it.

    good health to
    you................................Trig ..........~preDM

  5. #5
    Trawley Trash Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:39:59 -0800 (PST)
    DMJoshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Has any one read
    >
    > http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/foods.html


    I disagree strongly with the opening paragraph:

    ! Diabetes affects different people in different ways,
    ! depending on their degree of diabetic complication,
    ! but, while different amounts of carbs may be eaten for
    ! this reason, the types of foods to eat and to avoid is
    ! the same for all.

    Diabetes is an autoimmune disease, and autoimmune diseases
    are mostly allergies. When I first came into this forum
    I read a discussion about glycemic index, and how we cannot
    rely on the glycemic index of foods from the standard tables.
    Each of us has a different reaction to the foods. Some food
    allergies attack the insulin producing cells or increase
    insulin resistance. This is *why* they have higher glycemic
    index. On top of this there are issues about the amount of
    carbs and how quickly they are absorbed.

    I did somewhat the same thing that Chris Malcolm did, taking
    many BG readings during the day, and I found that dairy products
    are incredibly damaging. They are a slow poison for me.
    Potatoes OTOH are perfectly OK. I thrive on potatoes and sauerkraut.
    Rules about whole grains are completely wrong for me.

    I know that others here have different results. They find that
    different diets work better for them. Genetic variation is a
    consequence of evolution, but "one man's meat is another man's
    poison" harks back to Democritus.


  6. #6
    [email protected] | Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Jan 12, 6:39*pm, Trawley Trash <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    > On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:39:59 -0800 (PST)
    >
    > DMJoshi <josh...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > Has any one read

    >
    > >http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/foods.html

    >
    > * I disagree strongly with the opening paragraph:
    >
    > ! Diabetes affects different people in different ways,
    > ! depending on their degree of diabetic complication,
    > ! but, while different amounts of carbs may be eaten for
    > ! this reason, the types of foods to eat and to avoid is
    > ! the same for all.
    >
    > * Diabetes is an autoimmune disease, and autoimmune diseases
    > * are mostly allergies. *When I first came into this forum
    > * I read a discussion about glycemic index, and how we cannot
    > * rely on the glycemic index of foods from the standard tables.
    > * Each of us has a different reaction to the foods. *Some food
    > * allergies attack the insulin producing cells or increase
    > * insulin resistance. *This is *why* they have higher glycemic
    > * index. *On top of this there are issues about the amount of
    > * carbs and how quickly they are absorbed.
    >
    > * I did somewhat the same thing that Chris Malcolm did, taking
    > * many BG readings during the day, and I found that dairy products
    > * are incredibly damaging. *They are a slow poison for me.
    > * Potatoes OTOH are perfectly OK. *I thrive on potatoes and sauerkraut.
    > * Rules about whole grains are completely wrong for me.
    >
    > * I know that others here have different results. *They find that
    > * different diets work better for them. *Genetic variation is a
    > * consequence of evolution, but "one man's meat is another man's
    > * poison" harks back to Democritus.


    Milk certainly drives the BG up. How was cheese and good (no starch
    added)
    sour cream?

    I forget are pro whole grain or anti whole grain for yourself?

  7. #7
    DMJoshi Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Jan 13, 2:39*am, Trawley Trash <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    > On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:39:59 -0800 (PST)
    >
    > DMJoshi <josh...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > Has any one read

    >
    > >http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/foods.html

    >
    > * I disagree strongly with the opening paragraph:
    >
    > ! Diabetes affects different people in different ways,
    > ! depending on their degree of diabetic complication,
    > ! but, while different amounts of carbs may be eaten for
    > ! this reason, the types of foods to eat and to avoid is
    > ! the same for all.
    >
    > * Diabetes is an autoimmune disease, and autoimmune diseases
    > * are mostly allergies. *When I first came into this forum
    > * I read a discussion about glycemic index, and how we cannot
    > * rely on the glycemic index of foods from the standard tables.
    > * Each of us has a different reaction to the foods. *Some food
    > * allergies attack the insulin producing cells or increase
    > * insulin resistance. *This is *why* they have higher glycemic
    > * index. *On top of this there are issues about the amount of
    > * carbs and how quickly they are absorbed.
    >
    > * I did somewhat the same thing that Chris Malcolm did, taking
    > * many BG readings during the day, and I found that dairy products
    > * are incredibly damaging. *They are a slow poison for me.
    > * Potatoes OTOH are perfectly OK. *I thrive on potatoes and sauerkraut.
    > * Rules about whole grains are completely wrong for me.
    >
    > * I know that others here have different results. *They find that
    > * different diets work better for them. *Genetic variation is a
    > * consequence of evolution, but "one man's meat is another man's
    > * poison" harks back to Democritus.


    I have not gone into taking my Blood Glucose reading. Soon after it
    was diagnosed (thre and half years back) I had a meeting with Surgery
    Dietician. I was brought up on diet of unleavened bread made from
    Pearl millet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_millet), mostly
    buffalo milk products (no cheese) and cooked green vegetable.
    Dietician said it is OK me eating rye or whole wheat bread, asked me
    to use skimmed milk, low fat yogurt and not to use Sunflower Oil in my
    cooking.

    Diabetes Nurse gives a thorough check every six months. Other than
    that I depend on how it feels after eating anything special. I liked
    Coconut Kernels, but have given them up as I felt a bit heavy in head
    after eating them. The ill effect could have been because of the oil
    content.

    I keep checking each food item with word diabetes added for search. It
    was checking for deoiled coconut and came across the link I have put
    here.

  8. #8
    Trawley Trash Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:08:15 -0800 (PST)
    "[email protected] |" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Milk certainly drives the BG up. How was cheese and good (no starch
    > added)
    > sour cream?


    Cheese and cream are just as bad for me if not worse. Last year
    I tried a little bit of Brie, and I had to throw most of it out.
    I posted about it.

    I recently took one of those Igg allergy tests, and the dairy
    allergies do not show up. So I bought some of those spreadable cheese wedges
    that I ate a lot of when I was a teenager. That was ten days
    ago. I ate one of them, and I had serious problems for several
    days. My BG rose, and my muscles ached. I was unable to exert
    myself.

    This is a familiar feeling to me. Like bonking, but it starts as
    soon as I start to ride. In college a friend talked me into
    running five miles with him. I was surprised that I was even
    able to do it. After several days he began to want a smoothie
    after the run. The smoothies were delicious, but day by day
    my running deteriorated. After a week I had to stop. It was
    the same feeling. Now I am sure they must have added a milk-based
    protein supplement to the smoothie.

    Milk is a difficult allergen to avoid, but I do much better without
    it. Now that I have been off of it for years, cows milk smells
    like cows, and goats milk smells like goats. I no taste for
    either.

    I still waver whether it is the milk itself or the fact that we do
    not pasteurize it properly. The world's lowest rates of diabetes
    occur in countries like Vietnam where milk means coconut milk or
    boiled condensed milk.

    > I forget are pro whole grain or anti whole grain for yourself?


    I avoid grain: whole or otherwise. I am not sure whether that is
    still necessary, but it was at one time. My recent allergy test
    shows rice and corn but not wheat and gluten. Wheat and gluten
    were the first things I gave up. I haven't eaten them for many years.
    It is possible that the immunity that was triggered is now gone.
    This means I could tolerate small amounts at the risk of retriggering
    the allergy.

    When I quit gluten, I began to eat bread made with rice and corn. That
    worked for a while, but it triggered new allergies to rice and corn. I stopped
    eating them a couple of years ago, and I began baking my own bread
    from bean flour. That worked for a while, but then my BG started
    creeping up again.

    I began to feel really good in July when I ran out of bread and had no
    time to bake any. I began baking small potatoes instead. This is
    as easy as making toast if you have the right microwave.

    Now my recent allergy test shows no sensitivity to wheat and gluten,
    moderate sensitivity to rice and corn, and extreme sensitivity to
    beans.

    It would be tempting to conclude that I develop allergies to anything
    I eat, but potatoes and cabbage are perfectly OK. I eat a lot of
    those let me tell you. I also eat most meats in modest quantities,
    although I avoid beef.

    I only take the lowest possible dose of metformin, and my doctor
    has agreed to stop it in the spring when the danger of gaining weight
    is less. FBG ranges from 100 to 120, but most of the time during
    the day it is in the 90s. There are after meal spikes, but my
    neuropathy continues to improve. My hair is growing back, my vision
    is better, even my teeth firmed up.

    That is the way it was *before* I ate that cheese. If it is like the
    brie I ate last year, my BG will be a bit higher for a few weeks.
    About ten points higher right now.


  9. #9
    [email protected] | Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Jan 14, 5:38*am, Trawley Trash <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    > On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:08:15 -0800 (PST)
    >
    > "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |" <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > Milk certainly drives the BG up. How was cheese and good (no starch
    > > added)
    > > sour cream?

    >
    > * Cheese and cream are just as bad for me if not worse. *Last year
    > * I tried a little bit of Brie, and I had to throw most of it out.
    > * I posted about it.
    >
    > * I recently took one of those Igg allergy tests, and the dairy
    > * allergies do not show up. *So I bought some of those spreadable cheese wedges
    > * that I ate a lot of when I was a teenager. *That was ten days
    > * ago. *I ate one of them, and I had serious problems for several
    > * days. *My BG rose, and my muscles ached. *I was unable to exert
    > * myself.
    >
    > * This is a familiar feeling to me. *Like bonking, but it starts as
    > * soon as I start to ride. *In college a friend talked me into
    > * running five miles with him. *I was surprised that I was even
    > * able to do it. *After several days he began to want a smoothie
    > * after the run. *The smoothies were delicious, but day by day
    > * my running deteriorated. *After a week I had to stop. *It was
    > * the same feeling. *Now I am sure they must have added a milk-based
    > * protein supplement to the smoothie.
    >
    > * Milk is a difficult allergen to avoid, but I do much better without
    > * it. *Now that I have been off of it for years, cows milk smells
    > * like cows, and goats milk smells like goats. *I no taste for
    > * either.
    >
    > * I still waver whether it is the milk itself or the fact that we do
    > * not pasteurize it properly. *The world's lowest rates of diabetes
    > * occur in countries like Vietnam where milk means coconut milk or
    > * boiled condensed milk.
    >
    > > I forget are pro whole grain or anti whole grain for yourself?

    >
    > * I avoid grain: whole or otherwise. *I am not sure whether that is
    > * still necessary, but it was at one time. *My recent allergy test
    > * shows rice and corn but not wheat and gluten. *Wheat and gluten
    > * were the first things I gave up. *I haven't eaten them for many years.
    > * It is possible that the immunity that was triggered is now gone.
    > * This means I *could tolerate small amounts at the risk of retriggering
    > * the allergy.
    >
    > * When I quit gluten, I began to eat bread made with rice and corn. That
    > * worked for a while, but it triggered new allergies to rice and corn. *I stopped
    > * eating them a couple of years ago, and I began baking my own bread
    > * from bean flour. *That worked for a while, but then my BG started
    > * creeping up again.
    >
    > * I began to feel really good in July when I ran out of bread and had no
    > * time to bake any. *I began baking small potatoes instead. *This is
    > * as easy as making toast if you have the right microwave.
    >
    > * Now my recent allergy test shows no sensitivity to wheat and gluten,
    > * moderate sensitivity to rice and corn, and extreme sensitivity to
    > * beans.
    >
    > * It would be tempting to conclude that I develop allergies to anything
    > * I eat, but potatoes and cabbage are perfectly OK. *I eat a lot of
    > * those let me tell you. *I also eat most meats in modest quantities,
    > * although I avoid beef.
    >
    > * I only take the lowest possible dose of metformin, and my doctor
    > * has agreed to stop it in the spring when the danger of gaining weight
    > * is less. *FBG ranges from 100 to 120, but most of the time during
    > * the day it is in the 90s. *There are after meal spikes, but my
    > * neuropathy continues to improve. *My hair is growing back, my vision
    > * is better, even my teeth firmed up.
    >
    > * That is the way it was *before* I ate that cheese. *If it is like the
    > * brie I ate last year, my BG will be a bit higher for a few weeks.
    > * About ten points higher right now.


    Thanks I try to keep your experience in mind when I test in the
    morning
    and after meals. I am wondering if dairy has an impact. Certianly milk
    due to milk sugar but also the creams. Cheese in moderation seems
    OK for me. And I assuming some of this has a longer sweep of effect
    than just post meal.

  10. #10
    Trawley Trash Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:51:07 -0800 (PST)
    "[email protected] |" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Thanks I try to keep your experience in mind when I test in the
    > morning
    > and after meals. I am wondering if dairy has an impact. Certianly milk
    > due to milk sugar but also the creams. Cheese in moderation seems
    > OK for me. And I assuming some of this has a longer sweep of effect
    > than just post meal.


    Most of the foods that came up positive in that Igg allergy test seem
    to have an extended effect on BG. Dairy is the worst, but it does not
    show up in the test. OTOH I began to feel weak within a few minutes
    after eating that cheese. This is too fast for an Igg allergy. So
    maybe I need to test for IgE allergy to dairy. It may be making me
    ill, but I have no vomiting reflex. I have a congenital condition
    with my intestines that may contribute here.

    I have been cautiously testing my renewed tolerance for gluten by
    eating a few rye crackers. They seem to be OK for me now. The
    most difficult result is that the test shows my strongest allergy
    is to eggs. I have no symptoms that I am aware of with them.
    I will have to try eliminating them to see if they affect my BG.


  11. #11
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    DMJoshi
    > Has any one read
    >
    > http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/foods.html
    >
    > ?

    This web site is little more, IMO, that beliefs with little real
    reference to the full spectrum of science.
    In others words pseudo science. Irrelevant references are provided to
    portray the illusion of validity but it basically crap.

    For instance, there is a page on the site that claims that smoking is
    not a cause of smoking. Now, no matter how philosophical you want to
    analyze the meaning of "cause" such a claim deserves a lot more
    discussion that provided.

    See: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/smo...ng_cancer.html


    Regards
    Randy

  12. #12
    DMJoshi Guest

    Default Re: Meats, full-fat yogurt, butter, cream OK to control diabetes?

    On Jan 16, 2:25*am, "ra...@val.com" <ra...@val.com> wrote:
    > DMJoshi> Has any one read
    >
    > >http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/foods.html

    >
    > > ?

    >
    > This web site is little more, IMO, that beliefs with little real
    > reference to the full spectrum of science.
    > In others words pseudo science. Irrelevant references are provided to
    > portray the illusion of validity but it basically crap.
    >
    > For instance, there is a page on the site that claims that smoking is
    > not a cause of smoking. Now, no matter how philosophical you want to
    > analyze the meaning of "cause" such a claim deserves a lot more
    > discussion that provided.
    >
    > See:http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/smo...ng_cancer.html
    >
    > Regards
    > Randy


    Thank you Randy for pointing that page out.

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